What happened with the freedom to choose in Linux?

To me Linux in computing terms is freedom, you are not enforced into one size fits all scenario, Example, if we were to take any distro, give it to 50 experienced Linux users and told them to do what they like with it, by the time everyone has chopped a bit here added a bit there , swapped this app for that app we would end up with 50 distributions called the same but with a different to feel each.as we keep saying Linux is almost totally customisable, you make it what you want.
Agreed.

I'm able to remove whatever default unneeded unnecessary software I'll never ever need or use and install only the needed software I use.

Unlike other user's I don't seem to need all of the additional software that a lot of Linux user's seem to need or find useful.

IMO less is best bare minimum install just what it takes to run the Linux distro and let the user install what they need and want.

No developers know what software I need or want although I understand their "Swiss Army Knife" mind set and that's cool.

Give me the bare minimum working Linux distro to get started and I'll install the rest which will be less work for the developers imo. ;)
 


To me Linux in computing terms is freedom, you are not enforced into one size fits all scenario, Example, if we were to take any distro, give it to 50 experienced Linux users and told them to do what they like with it, by the time everyone has chopped a bit here added a bit there , swapped this app for that app we would end up with 50 distributions called the same but with a different to feel each.as we keep saying Linux is almost totally customisable, you make it what you want.
Well, in my POV the choice for Linux itself is freedom. You are not obliged to choose for Windows, or MacOS, altough the bigtech would like you of thinking Windows is part of the machine you buy. The same for Apples ecosystem: if you buy a MacBook you must use MacOS, otherwise it won´t work or crippled and you need to have an account for iCloud.

And as I mentioned before: you are completely free to choose which distro will be your choice. The same for the apps included in a distro: you can delete the ones you don't need or replaced with other apps.
 
We still have a lot of choices,

what distro.
what package Manager.
what desktop.
what network setup.
ufw or firewalld.
seLinux or appArmour.
VLC, or strawberry (about 6 other media players).
what filesystem type (ext4, xfs, btrfs, zfs, LVM.. etc...)
what servers we run - nginx or httpd/apache or node.js, etc...

But some things are the same.
We all run the same kernel (diff versions, but the same kernel).
We all use the same binutils, the same coreutils (although even that is starting to change).
We all use the same shells (most of us use bash).

I mean Linux wouldn't be Linux if there weren't some common standards.
 
I wrote a "dock.html" and saved it in the Home folder a while ago , when Firefox's new tabs started annoying me. Basically a simple css flexbox of all my social media / favorite sites and other customization like local hosting links and port settings. It's nice to have a starting page that's a hub of all your main go-to's.
 
I remember when installing Linux involved answering myriad non graphical installation questions on applications which were met with advisories on cross application dependencies, questions about partitioning the drive, and sometimes it all somehow worked. If you had a lightning strike induced power loss, you started the install all over again hoping you remembered everything you did on the successful install and could repeat it. Sometimes you could, others not.

Today it's a whole lot easier... Gads I just reminded myself how old I am, I need a Tylenol and a nap. :-)
 
• And now everyone's doing everything they can to kill X11, thus forcing us to use the Wayland which isn't ready at all, considering many apps weren't made to work under Wayland. X11 might be old but it's a battle tested veteran which works flawlessly and it's stable.
i think xfce is the last fort in this battle who use X11 by now (they developing wayland in this DE)
also i3wm
90% of DE forces wayland by this time
so you can say the linux distros becomes more capitalism
i think bcs the new users became after windows downfall (win10 last of support) and new steam os, they dont care about privacy or open sources so the distros change they philosophy against privacy or something like that (if you hate systemd mybe u will approve that, i use systemd tbh)
(also dont forget firefox who gave up against big inc's like google to by our cookies and data in same time for the AI and big companies for ads)
if you need privacy dont use internet any more lol:rolleyes:
evangelion-shinji.png
 
• And now everyone's doing everything they can to kill X11, thus forcing us to use the Wayland which isn't ready at all, considering many apps weren't made to work under Wayland. X11 might be old but it's a battle tested veteran which works flawlessly and it's stable.
There's wisdom there. I've never been a fan of bleeding edge code where chasing "new and improved" is better than rock solid and stable.

Old, tested and reliable is Faaarrr better than new "let the user sort it out as alpha / beta testers" mindset.
 
The freedom to choose is still alive and well. Many distro's, in my opinion, incorporate, seemingly in-bed stuff that is difficult to undo at times. Ubuntu felt like Widows to me with it's default install, snap.. ungrade pro nag to register.. Not cool to me at all, and alot more than that. Actually disturbed me. I still use it, but wow did I backwards engineer so much of that junk away, if not all of it.

I think many distros are catering to people who don't wanna tweak or experiment with it. They cater to people who just wanna use it without knowing any more about it, than they did Windows, or Mac, ect, when they used those systems.

Just my opinion. Don't hate me! Linux evolution, a lot of good, and a lot of bad.
 
We're developing Puppies with Wayland for those that want them, but we're also experimenting with xLibre as well. So far, the general consensus seems to be that most are happy to go with xLibre.....Puppians being a fairly predictable bunch, and the X11 eco-system works far better for the JWM/ROX-Filer "pinboard" combo that makes up Pup's default "DE".

Wayland, frankly, is hard work.....and seems to make things three times as awkward as they used to be. I do, however, agree with the statement from earlier in the thread.....about many modern distros being produced for your average John/Jane Doe, who just want to power their PC on and get on with using it. Such individuals have zero interest in what makes their PC tick; so long as it "works", they're happy.


Mike. ;)
 
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I think that's the vast majority of computer users. They just want it to work, and don't want to know, or need to know, any details about how it works. That's why so many try Linux and immediately return to Windows. Learning new things is more difficult than many are willing to do. New methods, new tools, new anything is unacceptable. And that also applies to many Linux users.
 
I think that's the vast majority of computer users. They just want it to work, and don't want to know, or need to know, any details about how it works. That's why so many try Linux and immediately return to Windows. Learning new things is more difficult than many are willing to do. New methods, new tools, new anything is unacceptable. And that also applies to many Linux users.
I don’t think “people just want it to work” is the full story, because Windows doesn’t “just work” either. Anyone who has ever had to help older people with a Windows machine knows that. Windows is full of its own crashes, weird settings, broken updates, driver problems, random slowdowns, and menus buried inside menus. People tolerate that on Windows mostly because it is familiar, not because it is actually simple.

What a lot of Windows users really want is not “something that works.” What they really want is something that works like Windows, with the same habits, same logic, same software expectations, and the same muscle memory they have built up over years. That is the real psychological barrier. When something breaks in a familiar system, people stay calm because they already have a mental map of it. When the same level of friction happens on Linux, it feels bigger because now they are fighting both the problem and an unfamiliar environment at the same time. That extra cognitive load is what pushes people back.

So I would say the issue is less about Linux being too hard and more about people not actually wanting a different OS. They want a Windows clone without Windows’ problems. But a new OS means new methods, new tools, and relearning old habits. That part is what many really reject. And ironically, Linux often gives you more control when something does break. On Linux you can usually inspect more, change more, and recover more on your own. On Windows you are much more boxed in by Microsoft’s choices. So no, I don’t buy the idea that it is only about “wanting it to work.” A lot of the time it is really about familiarity, habit, and not wanting to rebuild years of learned behavior.
 
I still think they just want it to work. Of course Windows doesn't always just work, nor does Linux or MacOS. Feces occur. But familiarity makes fixing things easier when they don't work as designed. If you've seen the same borkage many times, it's not so difficult to handle it. But something you've never seen is more difficult, and most Windows users have never seen a Linux desktop, so even normal things can seem broken. There are people who will just not tolerate anything different from what they're used to. Learning isn't fun or interesting to them, they just want what they're used to.
 
I still think they just want it to work. Of course Windows doesn't always just work, nor does Linux or MacOS. Feces occur. But familiarity makes fixing things easier when they don't work as designed. If you've seen the same borkage many times, it's not so difficult to handle it. But something you've never seen is more difficult, and most Windows users have never seen a Linux desktop, so even normal things can seem broken. There are people who will just not tolerate anything different from what they're used to. Learning isn't fun or interesting to them, they just want what they're used to.
That is basically my point, though. When people say “I just want it to work,” what they usually mean is “I want it to work in the way I already understand.”

That is the real difference.

Most Windows users are not coming to Linux with an empty head. They are coming with years of habit, muscle memory, expectations, and a mental map built around Windows logic. So when something goes wrong in Windows, even if it is a mess, it still feels like known territory. They have seen similar weirdness before. They know where the Settings app is, where Device Manager is, what an .exe is, what a C: drive is, what “restart the PC” means in that environment. Even the problems feel familiar.

On Linux, that same person is suddenly dealing with two things at once: the actual problem, and an unfamiliar system. That is what makes it feel worse. The friction is not always greater in absolute terms, but mentally it feels greater because they do not yet have a map in their head for where things are or how the system thinks. That is why even normal Linux behavior can look broken to a Windows user. It is outside their learned pattern.

So I still think “they just want it to work” is too vague. Psychologically, people do not just want functionality. They want familiarity, predictability, and low mental effort. They want the system to behave in ways that match what their brain already expects. That is why they often tolerate a huge amount of nonsense on Windows without questioning it, while much smaller differences on Linux feel unacceptable. Windows gets forgiven because it is familiar. Linux gets judged harder because it is unfamiliar.

That is also why so many people say they want to try something different, but what they actually want is a near-perfect Windows clone without the parts they dislike. They do not really want a different operating system in the deeper sense. They want the same learned behavior, same software assumptions, same workflow, same logic, just with fewer problems. And once they realise Linux is its own thing and expects some relearning, that is where many back out.

So yes, I agree familiarity is a huge part of it. I just think that once you strip the wording down, “I want it to work” usually means “I want it to feel familiar enough that I do not have to rebuild my habits from scratch.”
 
Most Windows users are not coming to Linux with an empty head. They are coming with years of habit, muscle memory, expectations, and a mental map built around Windows logic.
I'm sorry,, I couldn't help this mental picture from appearing in my brain....

Replace a gas stove with an electric one... They both cook food, but they're both very different. We don't usually complain about the differences, we just get use to how they work... No matter how hard you look for the pilot light on the electric one, you just plain ain't gonna find it! Not there!! kinna thing.

Linux is a different monster than the others. No matter how hard we try to make it look like, and behave like the others, It still remains that different monster so to speak. It should never be a surprise to anyone making the switch. Learning the freedom is still has, even if some distro's try to disguise that freedom sometimes, is so cool!
 


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