My frustration with older computers. Hint: it is not the age of the machine.

[LinuxUserSince2013]

Since I am a full time linux user, I actually prefer computers that are a few years older so that they are better supported by the kernel/open source drivers. The sad part is open source is not always able to keep a working piece of hardware out of the trash. In the near future, when I build another desktop machine, I will be trying my best to avoid nvidia. I currently own two nvidia cards, and one of them is basically dead, and the next one is on it's way out. It isn't because the hardware is not capable of meeting my needs. (I don't do very many demanding things like play action games) I simply use them to render my desktop environment, watch and do a little video editing. Sometimes I work on pictures as well. So why can't I keep using the same old hardware? Sadly it is not how old it is, it is due to the fact that driver support is being dropped.

The next time I buy a printer, I probably won't be buying another brother laser printer. The reason is, I own two of them, and over the years they work good with linux. Yet there is a problem, my first brother laser printer/scanner machine, only works properly with linux as long as I can install the 32 bit drivers provided by brother. Since I hear that 32 bit support is gradually being dropped, that machine will become trash before it is completely dead. (I can still use it as a copy machine) My next printer, which is a bit newer, does at least works with an opensource driver. Yet the option of being able to use toner saver mode is not there, which forced me to add a driver from brother to get the thing to do that. There might be a few other things as well, that is not currently coming to me. What is funny about that machine is, I print from the brother driver, but run the scanner from the opensource driver, because if I try to run it from the brother driver it fails. Kind of a weird work around, but it works good enough.

From my understanding, some brother printers work good with linux without installing brother drivers. Just my luck, I got stuck with 2 that is a bit questionable. I have always heard that HP works in Linux like a dream. So I might go that way.

 

[Scribe1]

Since I am a full time linux user, I actually prefer computers that are a few years older so that they are better supported by the kernel/open source drivers. The sad part is open source is not always able to keep a working piece of hardware out of the trash. In the near future, when I build another desktop machine, I will be trying my best to avoid nvidia. I currently own two nvidia cards, and one of them is basically dead, and the next one is on it's way out. It isn't because the hardware is not capable of meeting my needs. (I don't do very many demanding things like play action games) I simply use them to render my desktop environment, watch and do a little video editing. Sometimes I work on pictures as well. So why can't I keep using the same old hardware? Sadly it is not how old it is, it is due to the fact that driver support is being dropped.

The next time I buy a printer, I probably won't be buying another brother laser printer. The reason is, I own two of them, and over the years they work good with linux. Yet there is a problem, my first brother laser printer/scanner machine, only works properly with linux as long as I can install the 32 bit drivers provided by brother. Since I hear that 32 bit support is gradually being dropped, that machine will become trash before it is completely dead. (I can still use it as a copy machine) My next printer, which is a bit newer, does at least works with an opensource driver. Yet the option of being able to use toner saver mode is not there, which forced me to add a driver from brother to get the thing to do that. There might be a few other things as well, that is not currently coming to me. What is funny about that machine is, I print from the brother driver, but run the scanner from the opensource driver, because if I try to run it from the brother driver it fails. Kind of a weird work around, but it works good enough.

From my understanding, some brother printers work good with linux without installing brother drivers. Just my luck, I got stuck with 2 that is a bit questionable. I have always heard that HP works in Linux like a dream. So I might go that way.

Thank you for sharing your experience! I hate to see a computer thrown in the trash. I try to fix what's wrong and always install Linux on every machine I save.

I've had problems with Brother, Canon, and HP due to the way they handle (or mismanage) their drivers. My workaround is that I own two Epson 5200 series units, primarily because it was minimal fuss to set them up with my 64-bit Mint machines. The 32-bit Acer I just sent to my son was my one remaining 32-bit machine, but I won't refuse another one, especially if someone wants to just throw it out.

 

[The Duck]

I use old desktops from 2010 oldest to newest 2019.

I don't print very often and when I need to print anything I copy it to a usb flash drive.

I then go to the local Office Depot and copy it from the usb flash drive.

Not a big deal as I'm within walking distance of an office depot.

 

[LinuxUserSince2013]

Thank you for sharing your experience! I hate to see a computer thrown in the trash. I try to fix what's wrong and always install Linux on every machine I save.

I've had problems with Brother, Canon, and HP due to the way they handle (or mismanage) their drivers. My workaround is that I own two Epson 5200 series units, primarily because it was minimal fuss to set them up with my 64-bit Mint machines. The 32-bit Acer I just sent to my son was my one remaining 32-bit machine, but I won't refuse another one, especially if someone wants to just throw it out.

The oldest machine I own is from 2007. My next oldest machine is from 2011. (Running Windows 7 for some small tasks) My next oldest machine is from 2013 or 2014. And my newest machine is from 2016.

 

[KGIII]

I then go to the local Office Depot and copy it from the usb flash drive.

Just yesterday, I had to sign a PDF document that wasn't meant to be signed and returned. They meant for it to be printed, signed, scanned, and returned (or signed and mailed back). I don't use a printer. Well, there might be one tucked away in a box in the basement room I call my lab. I think there's one down there.

I opened the PDF online (it was nothing with private data in it, and doing it online was easiest), only to scribble on it with my mouse. I did so in two places and emailed it back to them. They replied with a 'thank you', and that was good enough for me.

I actually think trees are pretty much the ultimate renewable resource, but I see no reason for me to print anything in the modern era. After all, the first 'paperless office' concept started about 50 years ago, in the mid 70s. If someone wants me to sign something, they can provide a physical copy for me to sign. Otherwise, they get what I just provided.

Also, I find the concept of absurd ink prices to be insane. I think the printer downstairs is a laser printer, and I'm sure the toner would have expired by now. I can afford ink, I just don't like paying for it. They sell the printer at a loss and then charge extra for the ink. They also go to great lengths to stop people from using cheaper solutions. I don't want any part of that.

I haven't had a printer hooked up in years. That's unlikely to change in the near future.

 

[Condobloke]

I have always heard that HP works in Linux like a dream.

Don't believe everything you hear. i have a hate relationship with HP.....no love, just hate.

I think all printer companies are the same. A bunch of insanely greedy &^&^*&^. That is not about change, as long as 'money' exists.

Also, I find the concept of absurd ink prices to be insane. I think the printer downstairs is a laser printer, and I'm sure the toner would have expired by now. I can afford ink, I just don't like paying for it. They sell the printer at a loss and then charge extra for the ink. They also go to great lengths to stop people from using cheaper solutions. I don't want any part of that.

Fact. Greed rules the earth.

 

[dos2unix]

Yet there is a problem, my first brother laser printer/scanner machine, only works properly with linux as long as I can install the 32 bit drivers provided by brother. Since I hear that 32 bit support is gradually being dropped, that machine will become trash before it is completely dead.

This isn't a drivers issue. For example, in my distro (I also have a brpther priner).

file /usr/lib/cups/filter/rastertobrlaser
/usr/lib/cups/filter/rastertobrlaser: ELF 64-bit LSB pie executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2, BuildID[sha1]=6
20de3bf6c2a89ab6d5e76b1555b4a801738cf34, for GNU/Linux 3.2.0, stripped

I have 64 bit drivers, because I have a 64bit OS.

So the 32bit drivers thing, is tied to the 32bit OS.

 

[osprey]

I don't use a printer. Well, there might be one tucked away in a box in the basement room I call my lab. I think there's one down there.



Also, I find the concept of absurd ink prices to be insane. I think the printer downstairs is a laser printer, and I'm sure the toner would have expired by now. I can afford ink, I just don't like paying for it. They sell the printer at a loss and then charge extra for the ink. They also go to great lengths to stop people from using cheaper solutions. I don't want any part of that.

I haven't had a printer hooked up in years. That's unlikely to change in the near future.

The economy of inkjet printers compared to laser printers is indeed stark. Laser toner cartridges can print thousands of pages more than inkjet tanks in my experience and are far more inexpensive per print. One has to weigh in the up front cost, but even so it's been more economical here with the laser after some early years going through a number of inkjets.

The old laser printer here just keeps on working. It was added to the system before modern driverless printing was a thing. For some info on driverless see here: https://wiki.debian.org/CUPSDriverlessPrinting

In acquiring the printer, the approach here was conservative, but worked. Older HP laser printers had a reputation for working well with linux, and also of providing durable service over years. It was easy to check which older printers were supported by inspecting the gutenprint and foomatic packages which supplied linux drivers.

To check what's available, the following info is useful:

The list of printers supported by gutenprint are in the files of the directory:
/usr/share/gutenprint/5.3/xml/printers

The installed gutenprint packages are:

libgutenprint-common
libgutenprint9
printer-driver-gutenprint

The list of printers supported by foomatic are in the file:
/usr/share/foomatic/db/source/printer

The foomatic packages installed are:

foomatic-db-engine
foomatic-db

The current printer here is:

[~]$ cat printcap
<snip>
HP_LaserJet_P2015_Series|HP LaserJet P2015 Series:rm=min:rp=HP_LaserJet_P2015_Series:
HP-LaserJet-P2015-Series|Hewlett-Packard HP LaserJet P2015 Series:rm=min:rp=HP-LaserJet-P2015-Series:

It's one of the HP printers listed in: /usr/share/gutenprint/5.3/xml/printers/pcl.xml

Since this old printer, the HP P2015, was still quite available in refurbished form at the time some years ago, it was acquired, plugged in and has been serviceable since. The toner cartridge can print between 3000 and 7000 copies depending on what is being printed. Here, printing of music manuscript is the most common print job so that pages of music, unobtainable from elsewhere, can be handed around to musicians for performance.

 

[Mike-BTU]

The economy of inkjet printers compared to laser printers is indeed stark. Laser toner cartridges can print thousands of pages more than inkjet tanks in my experience and are far more inexpensive per print. One has to weigh in the up front cost, but even so it's been more economical here with the laser after some early years going through a number of inkjets.

That's exactly right! We ditched our inkjet printers years ago, and since then have owned several laser printers. All use dry powder toner in lieu of liquid ink.

Two of them got zapped by lightning surges, and one just wore out. The present one is a multifunction color laser printer/copier/fax.

 

[Condobloke]

The present one is a multifunction color laser printer/copier/fax.

brand ?......does it behave ?

 

[ron.alan]

I have always heard that HP works in Linux like a dream.

I have used nothing but HP printers, both on Windows and on Linux. Yeah, they're getting obnoxious about using non-HP ink. But so far generic ink still works on my Officejet 8022e. I don't connect the printer to the Internet . . . I've read that some models will download updated firmware that will reject non-hp ink cartridges.

 

[Mike-BTU]

It's an HP LaserJet 200 color. It behaves.

We access it through our LAN.

 

[KGIII]

Fact. Greed rules the earth.

There are some 'games' that I just don't want to play. They're often things I just don't want to support, or encourage.

The old laser printer here just keeps on working.

I'd really have to go look, but I think mine's a (now very) old HP laser jet printer.

A small part of me makes me curious. I don't think it has been powered on in a decade. It's also a scanner and (yes) fax machine. It's that old that it has a fax machine. (I think... Again, I'd have to go look at it.)

That small part of me says, "If I plug it in, it's going to work." The laser jet printers are less likely to clog, and the material they use to print stuff is less likely to harden. I don't know how long it'd last, but I'm now a bit curious.

I may have to go look into what I call my 'lab', specifically under a large wall of a handmade desk with peg board over it. That'll be where it's located. I may just decide to see if it still works. At the same time, I will not be investing any money into this. It's 2026. I will not be printing anything important.

No, I will not even be printing images. If I want to reproduce images in the real world, there are companies that will happily attend to that for me, and they'll use proper paper and inks to do so. Yes, I'd rather pay that price than deal with it myself.

 

[MikeWalsh]

So why can't I keep using the same old hardware? Sadly it is not how old it is, it is due to the fact that driver support is being dropped.

Mm. It might sound cavalier to some people, but that's never bothered me. With Puppies being as quick & simple to set-up as they are, if I want to run something that makes use of "unsupported" drivers (sic), I'll just set-up a 'spare' Puppy.....then leave it disconnected from the net. It'll be a purely 'local', 'standalone' install.....specifically for that one job.

(If needs be, I'll make use of a 32-bit Puppy for the job. The CPU's ability to run a 32-bit system isn't suddenly going to change overnight... )

(shrug...)

It's not like storage space/RAM are really considerations for me. If I wanted to, I'd simply set-up a "Puppy-on-a-stick" for the job......though more often, I'll simply 'duplicate' whatever Pup I wish to use within the 'kennels' (remember, Puppies will each run from a uniquely-named sub-directory in the same partition, since our in-house boot-loader has been modified to search TWO layers deep for a bootable kernel). I'll then mark it as a 'dedicated' Puppy in the boot menu.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​

I've ended up doing that for the scanning app on this new Epson WorkForce WF-2930 I bought the other week. I make extensive use of YAD for home-brewed GUI dialogs, and also a specific GTK 2.0 dark theme.....and the available scanner app for this unit, when installed, for some reason messes everything up and stops much of it from working properly. So I have a barebones Puppy, as it comes OOTB, set-up just FOR scanning.

(I don't scan very often, though it does come in handy on occasion. Most of the time I'll make use of the 'Copy' function instead, if I don't need to store a digital copy on the system.)

Kind of annoying, since the old Epson Stylus SX218 printer/scanner/copier (which this one replaced) did everything perfectly.....but at almost 20 years old, it was worn-out and on its last legs. It would have cost more to repair than to replace - even if the parts HAD been available - so it got 'replaced'. That's 'progress', I guess.

Frankly, I'll be surprised if this new one lasts as long.


Mike.

 

[Brickwizard]

I have always heard that HP works in Linux like a dream. So I might go that way.

I have had 3 in the last 20 years [lex mark prior to that] never had a problem, always filled my own cartages [still got a stack of ink somewhere] then they started getting awkward with firmware updates that blocked the use of re-filled cartages and new pattern part ones so your stuck with new branded at 3 or more times the price they need be, so out went my Photosmart [loved that one never a problem till the updates] and a almost brand-new wireless envy, i replaced them with an Epson which at the time would not work with Linux Epson drivers only the non free ones from Epson until the back end of last year, it now works with the Linux drivers, and although i could refill the ink, its a very messy job with theirs, i can buy re-fills and pattern parts so cheap it keeps the running cost well down.

 

[JohnJ]

Just yesterday, I had to sign a PDF document that wasn't meant to be signed and returned. They meant for it to be printed, signed, scanned, and returned (or signed and mailed back). I don't use a printer. Well, there might be one tucked away in a box in the basement room I call my lab. I think there's one down there.

I opened the PDF online (it was nothing with private data in it, and doing it online was easiest), only to scribble on it with my mouse. I did so in two places and emailed it back to them. They replied with a 'thank you', and that was good enough for me.

I actually think trees are pretty much the ultimate renewable resource, but I see no reason for me to print anything in the modern era. After all, the first 'paperless office' concept started about 50 years ago, in the mid 70s. If someone wants me to sign something, they can provide a physical copy for me to sign. Otherwise, they get what I just provided.

Also, I find the concept of absurd ink prices to be insane. I think the printer downstairs is a laser printer, and I'm sure the toner would have expired by now. I can afford ink, I just don't like paying for it. They sell the printer at a loss and then charge extra for the ink. They also go to great lengths to stop people from using cheaper solutions. I don't want any part of that.

I haven't had a printer hooked up in years. That's unlikely to change in the near future.

Totally agree KG.
Just for info if you (or others) are tempted to look into the digital signatures biosphere,
I have been on the digital signature journey. I attempted to do my own inhouse digital signature stuff via LibreWriter and Okular. Yes, I managed to do this after much trial and error and online research but I found it complicated and very difficult to do.
The end result was a very clunky looking signature box with half the details missing or cut off with no opportunity to edit how it looks. I gave up trying to make the digital signature look even half way presentable and with reluctance concerning cost turned to Qoppa PDF Studio and Master PDF Editor. Both have fully functioning trial versions that leave watermarks on documents but at least I could try them out.
Qoppa PDF Studio was better at modifying my generated digital signatures to change how they look and present. Master PDF Editor was more clunky but maybe I didn’t spend enough time learning how to do it. Then again, I just don’t want to spend extra time learning this stuff. I want quick and easy, and for me Qoppo is just that. In the end I went with Qoppo PDF Studio because it is US based as opposed to Master PDF Editor which is based in Russia. Plus PDF Studio was better at manipulating how the final digital signature presents.

I hope all this is of some interest to somebody.
Cheers
John

 

[Scribe1]

I just cut and paste a jpg of my signature (which I scanned years ago). It appears to have been working for all this time so far, but I'm just an average guy with few responsibilities.

 

[GatorsFan]

I have a Canon TS3120 I bought in 2019 still works like a champ

 

[JohnJ]

I just cut and paste a jpg of my signature (which I scanned years ago). It appears to have been working for all this time so far, but I'm just an average guy with few responsibilities.

hi Scribe. Yes, that's fine for general signing where security is no concern. The only thing to be aware of is that it is easy for someone to copy your .jpg and use it for nefarious reasons. This is where a true encoded Digital Signature comes in. I have hijacked this thread enough already so if there is any interest maybe start a Digital Signature thread for interested listeners?
Cheers
John

 

[ML_113]

I gave away my DCP7020 after finding another Brother in the garbage dump that use the same cartridge as my DCP7065DN.
I like Brother because it’s very easy and cheap to find third party ink.
As for driver I could never print duplex so it is Win7 in Virtualbox always.
I am green so 50% less paper is a big deal, not counting the post stamp cost if that’s a tax return - no, I don’t print very often.