What happened with the freedom to choose in Linux?

rado84

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WTH happened to the freedom to choose for yourself in Linux and why isn't anybody doing anything about bringing it back? Linux is beginning to feel more and more like Winblows. At this rate we might as well rename it to Winux! Change is a good thing but when it comes voluntarily, not by force!
In the past few years many things were forced on the users and while simply accept what was forced upon them, I won't!

• Firefox started behaving like Gnome forcing their views about how the browser should look like and behave to the point that nowadays it's a step short of digital dictatorship.
• The linux kernel (from 6.12) started forcing things and aggressive policies that keep the CPU in something similar to turbo mode which means 40°C or higher in idle mode.
• Gnome started forcing rounded corners, GTK4 and themes with closed access to the assets, thus you can't change their themes. What's worse, when you cange something in the code of one of their programs, they move the code to that thing a library so deep, so that you can't find it again and can't change it. Been there, done that, that's why I'm mentioning it. Not to mention about banning from their forum all the unhappy users - that's also a form of forcing. And now they're about to force Wayland without giving you a choice. Either Wayland or nothing.
• Cinnamon also did a forcing of their own - removed metacity thus removed the freedom to use decorations of your choice. Without metacity you can only choose a theme and window decorations they choose for you. The excuse that "metacity is too hard to support" was too flat and tasteless, considering metacity simply "hangs" there and does almost nothing. Plus, keeping the package as a dependency to cinnamon but lying about its support is another lie it's hard to support it. If it's so hard to support it, then why keep it in the dependencies list and the desktop keeps using it? This is another forcing of the user. Cinnamon team is slowly but surely turning the desktop into a Gnome clone but keep denying it. And yet the look of Cinnamon 6.x shows exactly that.
• Pipewire - someone decided to force a new sound server to replace pulseaudio and guess what? Nobody asked the user if they wanted it, it just happened. Which naturally worsened the sound quality in linux and led to muffled sound (imagine an old Russian cassette tape recorder with the brand VEF which was mono), crackling here and there, especially on games. So with pipewire one has to choose between soundless games or crackling games, especially with old games like "Kingdoms of Amalur", "Mass Effect Andromeda", etc. Some choice, eh? I found a way to get rid of it and remembered what crystal clear sound in linux sounded like.
• Somewhere along the way (IDK which version exactly) linux kernels started rewriting and/or entirely deleting kernel options set by the user. On Feb 24th I decided to do a full system upgrade and a few things immeduately disappeared - cpupower config file which at the time was simply a file without an extension. Considering the new cpupower.conf contains exactly the same thing as the extensionless file, they could have just renamed the file to cpupower.conf. But no, someone decided it was a great idea to delete that file. On top of that the new kernel removed these options I had entered myself and I used for years:
Code:
acpi=force acpi_enforce_resources=lax intel_pstate=disable transparent_hugepage=never
They had left me only with "usbcore.autosuspend=-1" just so I'm not 100% screwed up but that was probably a miss by whoever decided to replace user settings because they didn't know about the existence of this specific option. My options were replaced by a bunch of useless BS options which led to a WAY hotter idling CPU (44°C when idling compared to 28-30°C when idling WITH my custom options) which was working at maximum frequency even when doing nothing. Clearly someone "up there" (in kernel.org) didn't want me to be able to properly shut down or suspend my computer or to be able to view the hardware temperatures properly in conky or to properly unload the memory. When you remove "acpi_enforce_resources=lax" conky stops being able to read the sensors; removing "transparent_hugepage=never" leads to both the system and conky show a huge amount of RAM being used when in fact it's not. Like, run just GEdit and it would read 12 GiB were taken and even if you close GEdit, the taken amount of RAM doesn't drop. With the removal of "intel_pstate=disable" the Intel's PowerState starts managing the CPU but it's too glitchy and ineffective, that's why it has to be disabled and let cpupower manage the CPU states. Unfortunately for whoever did this "change", I'm a backup maniac which means that my backup has a backup of the backup of the backup, so it wasn't hard to restore my kernel settings.
But the $1 mil questions is "why at all they had to go this far at all?". The new kernels work just fine with these options, so there's no good reason for removing them. There is one possible explanation but even if I said, you wouldn't believe me - at least not until it's too late.
• And now everyone's doing everything they can to kill X11, thus forcing us to use the Wayland which isn't ready at all, considering many apps weren't made to work under Wayland. X11 might be old but it's a battle tested veteran which works flawlessly and it's stable.
• Even Arch Linux went to force things on the users. Just because "nvidia recommended something", let's force it on the users and not give them a choice. You see, because nvidia recommended the nvidia-open driver, the Arch Linux team decided to force it on us. Not on me, though. On top of that, instead of making the transition easy, they decided to split gcc-libs into a dozen smaller packages which makes the installation of nvidia-open not only hard but also full of conflicts that lead to a BSOD with kernel panic. And everything would have been A LOT easier if those small packages were integrated into gcc-libs and then the user would have to replace the package nvidia with nvidia-open (or nvidia-dkms with nvidia-open-dkms). But no, they had to split gcc-libs into a dozen other packages and on top of that created a new package named libgcc which conflicts with gcc-libs and when you attempt to replace it, it either cries about files that already exist in the filesystem, or directly goes to deleting pretty much everything and 5 minutes later - happy kernel panic, guys! Currently the only options one has (if they're so insistant to have the latest glitchy and not ready for daily use open driver of nvidia - I tried it, it sucks on so many levels I could write a book about its flaws) is to either fully reinstall Arch or dissect it like a frog, remove its spine and then put it back upgraded by chrooting into it. But that's a heavy surgery not everyone can do or is willing to do. I might attempt it some day in the distant future, but for now - back to 6.11.9 and 555.58, the perfect combo of kernel and nvidia driver which behave as if they were written for each other that don't turn my system into an oven and don't remove options from the linux line in grub.cfg.

So I'm asking again - where the hell did the linux freedom go and who's gonna bring it back? Cuz I'm sick and tired of all the forcing of hands which is typical for a certain corporation from Redmond, WA and I wouldn't be surprised if all that forcing is their doing.

You may call me crazy or whatever you want, I don't care. But I know what I'm seeing and it's not for the first time I smelled danger and nobody believed me. I can read the fine invisible print most people can't even see. Those of us who can - we'll be prepared when the third "E" ("Embrace", "Exsanguinate", "Extinguish") is completed while the rest simly cry or protest. RN we're at the second "E".
 


True freedom is in that we can build Linux and individual packages from source and make our own OS to our own likeness.
We have freedom to modify source code as well as other freedoms set by license.

We don't get to choose how that same software is made.

But you know that, problem is that average user has no choice but to choose what's available to them without effort on their side, e.g. to modify and adapt, because it requires technical skills.
 
Many of us would say Wayland passed X11 in maturity a good while back, but all that aside.

I agree with much of what you say here.

But is it really a "freedom to choose" issue, or is it simply a "no longer viable to support" issue?

32-bit is all but dead. A handful of distros still support it, but even QEMU/KVM are saying they won't support 32-bit VMs anymore. Really old GPUs aren't supported anymore either.

Is it because they want to take away our freedom to choose? Maybe, but I believe it's more about the fact that no one is using these things anymore. Why should I, as a distro dev team, keep spending resources supporting something nobody uses?

Also, the more old stuff I have to support, the fewer resources I have for new development. If I don't keep developing for new things, my distro will eventually die off. Old drivers are traditionally buggier and less secure. It has happened where a distro gets a bad reputation for being buggy and insecure — and often it isn't the distro itself to blame, but rather the old binaries they chose to keep supporting. Being seen as too far behind hurts a distro just as much.

I will say, I find it a bit ironic that someone using an Arch-based distro wants to hold on to the old stuff.



One area where I do think the "forced on us" argument has real teeth is the upcoming age verification push. This isn't strictly a Linux issue, but it will affect Linux. Systemd has taken heat for even considering implementing hooks for it — but that's shooting the messenger. If governments mandate it, something in the stack has to handle it, and systemd is the logical place at the OS level. I'm personally opposed to it, but the uncomfortable reality is that distros shipping into certain jurisdictions may eventually have no legal choice. That one is worth being concerned about.
 
I will say, I find it a bit ironic that someone using an Arch-based distro wants to hold on to the old stuff
My computer, my rules! When the new stuff is forced on me without giving me a choice, ofc I'll want to hold to the old stuff, especially X11 and pipewireless. But go ahead and try to remove pipewire - you'll find yourself with a broken desktop, especially if the desktop in question has gnome as dependencies (Cinnamon). And when the new kernels rewrite my options, I call that invasion. You can guess how much love I have for invasion. Or the nvidia driver in Arch - if they had done it right, I might have reconsidered. But completely removing the proprietary driver and replacing it with nvidia-open which breaks everything when you try to install it - that's also something I can't tolerate, so naturally I'll rollback to kernel and driver that I know they work flawlessly together. They worked together flawlessly without a single error for 18 months (before I made the mistake to do a full system upgrade), I'm sure they can last forever.
 
A refund for the amount paid if any user is unhappy with any Linux distro.

How can anyone complain about free.

Some people's kids.
 
I'm considering switching to Artix for my desktop or another distribution if the things keep going they way they are going, but time will tell. I've never had issues with the nvidia-open driver, only when a new game comes out it sometimes happens that they need to update the driver for that new game to work properly without issues.
 
One always has choice. Anyone is free to modify any package in any way. Whining because no one else is willing to do the work for you is not an adult attitude. Packages become abandoned, but the source code is still available. You're not forced to use anything, but if you refuse the choices you're offered, you may have to do some work to make your choice viable. With Linux, you get what you pay for, and usually much more, because the cost is very low.
 
Well, there is freedom to choose! Literally not within Linux itself but you can choose which distro you'd like to install and use!

You want a mainstram distro like Mint, Ubuntu, Debian? Then you should know you cannot always deny you don't like. Oh, yes, if you can program you can write your own stuff. But the same goes for distro's which aren't mainstream but don't offer the newest out of the box. Afterwards you can choose to install it or not.

In my opinion there's still freedom to choose. It depends on how you choose and what. Choosing if you want hasselfree and out of the box or less up-to-date but ideal to set it to your likings.
 
I think you are aiming at the wrong target here. Prebuilt defaults in a distro or desktop are not the same thing as Linux taking your freedom away. I am literally on Ubuntu Server 26.04 right now waiting for release, I removed Snap completely because I do not want it, I installed KDE on X11 because that is what I want, and I game on it with Wine 10 and native Steam. My i7-6850K on Linux 7.0.0-10-generic sits around 39-40C idle, which is normal for my setup. So when I read that Linux itself is now forcing everyone into one single way of doing things, that does not line up with what I am seeing on my own machine.

Some of the frustration in your post is real, but it is aimed way too broadly. Firefox changing its UI is Mozilla being Mozilla, not “Linux.” GNOME being more opinionated is real too, but GNOME is not the whole Linux world. If someone does not like what GNOME is doing with libadwaita, theming, or Wayland-first decisions, then do what Linux has always allowed people to do: use something else. KDE exists. XFCE exists. Cinnamon exists, even if you do not like the direction Cinnamon is taking. I use KDE X11 because it fits my setup better, and that option is still there for me.

Same with PipeWire. A distro making PipeWire the default is not the same as Linux giving you no choice. If PipeWire behaves badly on one machine, then that is a bug or regression on that setup, not proof that the entire Linux audio stack was ruined on purpose. Same thing with CPU behavior. If an update trashes your boot line or moves a config file, that is a distro packaging or config problem. It is not the kernel secretly declaring war on user freedom. A lot of people keep acting like the options themselves were removed from Linux, when half the time the real problem is that their bootloader or distro upgrade handled the config badly.

The Arch and NVIDIA part is the one area where I get the annoyance more, because Arch really does make packaging decisions that can hit people hard if they run close to the edge. But that is Arch doing Arch things. It is a rolling distro. It changes fast, and sometimes the user pays for that. That still is not the same as saying Linux as a whole has turned into Windows. Even Arch still leaves manual paths open for people who actually know their systems.

To me this reads less like “Linux took freedom away” and more like “some upstream projects and some distros changed defaults in directions I do not like.” Those are not the same statement. Linux freedom was never “every project must preserve every old workflow forever.” Linux freedom is that I can still rip out what I do not want, install what I do want, stay on X11 if I need to, remove Snap completely, and build a setup that fits me instead of whatever some desktop team thinks is fashionable this year. I am doing exactly that right now, so no, I do not buy the idea that freedom is gone. What is gone in some places is the old default, and those are two very different things.
 
WTH happened to the freedom to choose for yourself in Linux and why isn't anybody doing anything about bringing it back?
The developers, maintainers and packagers are also entitled to their own time and to choose what to focus on.

We should go and check all the projects and subsystems you mention, what is the status of maintenance, and most importantly, what is the amount of users that have (or have not) supported them to be where they are.

I spend a fair amount of my own money supporting the projects that I use, that fit my needs or just those I want to see thriving --just because they make all this a better place. I have donated to a great amount of them in the last few years, ranging from "big" projects such as Fedora and both KDE and Gnome to much smaller projects such as Just Perfection, Codeberg or programming languages like Lua.

I won't make the mistake of thinking that the fact that something exists means that I am owed that forever and no matter what.
 
I'm considering switching to Artix for my desktop or another distribution if the things keep going they way they are going, but time will tell.
One always has choice. Anyone is free to modify any package in any way. Whining because no one else is willing to do the work for you is not an adult attitude. Packages become abandoned, but the source code is still available. You're not forced to use anything, but if you refuse the choices you're offered, you may have to do some work to make your choice viable. With Linux, you get what you pay for, and usually much more, because the cost is very low.
FYI I was referring to some changes to systemD that have been recently made, time will tell what those changes will effect in the coming time and if more things like that will be added. So these aren't things one can just get around because of not liking change, because for example most distributions use systemD and it's really hard to replace systemD with another init system for an existing installation if that's even possible for some of the distributions and this is also not complaining for the complaining. That's why I would be considering another distribution if things keep going like more in the wrong direction but as said before time will tell not just jumping ship yet without seeing how things go first.

Also it's more complicated than that to just modify a package, not everyone has the knowledge and skill to modify systemD changes they don't like. So it's not like anyone here can just do it. Another thing is SystemD has been forked, but the the other problem as mentioned before is you can't just replace systemD because it's a dependency of a lot of things. Also what are the changes of a forked systemD ending up in the default repos of several big distributions, zero to none just look at Xlibre. That's why it would be more logical to switch to a distribution without SystemD if it gets to the point where I can't get around these type of changes anymore.
 
FYI I was referring to some changes to systemD that have been recently made, time will tell what those changes will effect in the coming time and if more things like that will be added. So these aren't things one can just get around because of not liking change, because for example most distributions use systemD and it's really hard to replace systemD with another init system for an existing installation if that's even possible for some of the distributions and this is also not complaining for the complaining. That's why I would be considering another distribution if things keep going like more in the wrong direction but as said before time will tell not just jumping ship yet without seeing how things go first.

Also it's more complicated than that to just modify a package, not everyone has the knowledge and skill to modify systemD changes they don't like. So it's not like anyone here can just do it. Another thing is SystemD has been forked, but the the other problem as mentioned before is you can't just replace systemD because it's a dependency of a lot of things. Also what are the changes of a forked systemD ending up in the default repos of several big distributions, zero to none just look at Xlibre. That's why it would be more logical to switch to a distribution without SystemD if it gets to the point where I can't get around these type of changes anymore.
You’re talking about this, right? I agree on that point. I have not personally looked too deeply into it yet, because so far I have not run into it as a problem myself, but I do agree that it is a problem in itself
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Just be aware folks, not to start going down the rabbit hole on age restrictions. Staff consider it to be premature to discuss the matter here until further experience in the world outside of Linux dictates it may be appropriate.

TIA

Wizard
 
Just be aware folks, not to start going down the rabbit hole on age restrictions. Staff consider it to be premature to discuss the matter here until further experience in the world outside of Linux dictates it may be appropriate.

TIA

Wizard
I haven't mentioned the age restriction nor do I care about that. I was talking about completely different things, much more important that the limitations of the slowest state of America.
 
You’re talking about this, right? I agree on that point. I have not personally looked too deeply into it yet, because so far I have not run into it as a problem myself, but I do agree that it is a problem in itself
Just be aware folks, not to start going down the rabbit hole on age restrictions. Staff consider it to be premature to discuss the matter here until further experience in the world outside of Linux dictates it may be appropriate.
I wasn't calling it by it's name on purpose to avoid another discussion about it but to focus more on why you can't get around some changes, I have removed the link to the video and replaced it with the Github fork page. However if the discussion about that topic is started again I will remove all replies that contain that topic.
I haven't mentioned the age restriction nor do I care about that. I was talking about completely different things, much more important that the limitations of the slowest state of America.
It still falls under the topic of the topic you started which is limitations and freedoms to choose in Linux as we all have our preferences for certain things when it comes to using our computer.
 
To me Linux in computing terms is freedom, you are not enforced into one size fits all scenario, Example, if we were to take any distro, give it to 50 experienced Linux users and told them to do what they like with it, by the time everyone has chopped a bit here added a bit there , swapped this app for that app we would end up with 50 distributions called the same but with a different to feel each.as we keep saying Linux is almost totally customisable, you make it what you want.
 


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