Isolated dual boot?

[Linux1D10T]

Sorry if this has already been discussed, but I'm new to Linux and haven't found the answer I need.

I'd like to do an isolated dual boot Windows/Linux system on separate nvme drives (mobo has 2 nvme slots).
I'd like to get away from Windows altogether, but have some niche programs that I need that won't run under Linux and the developers won't update them, so I'm stuck with dual boot at least for now. A big worry is breaking the bootloader or some similar issue that could result in data loss.

I keep finding "install drives separately", but I'm still in the "distro hopping" phase and that method would require me to disassemble/reassemble my pc every time I tried a new distro.

I know installing drives separately is the "sure fire" way, but since I have 2 nvme slots I sure would like to know if there a way to do isolated installs without all extra the hassle?

Thanks

 

[Brickwizard]

The same way as you would with 2 HDDs or 2 SSDs [or any combination, Disable windows quick start some distributions will work with secure boot many do not, so if your using one that doesn't, disable secure boot, power off the machine, put the pen-drive with your bootable ISO in a spare socket, switch on whilst tickling the short boot key [often F12 or F10 but it depends on the make of machine] select the USB and boot, most distributions will take you to a live session, check everything is working [sound/graphics etc] if OK select install
during the installation you will come to the partitioning bit, if you have a clean drive and are only installing Linux select complete drive, from the long box [which normally will show your main drive] click on the drop-down arrow and select the NVMe you wish to install to. And enter [this is the method i have always used]

Be aware, Windows updates often break Linux by turning the quick boot back on or overwriting the grub boot [these are usually easy fixes.

 

[CaffeineAddict]

A big worry is breaking the bootloader or some similar issue that could result in data loss.

Windows is known to overwrite grub (Linux most popular boot manager) with Windows boot manager, during some Windows updates, therefore nothing you can do about it to prevent it other than getting rid of Windows.

But since you want to keep it, you'll need to have a USB stick with live Linux on it all the time ready, that will serve for recovery when this happens.

Windows overwriting grub does not result in data loss on your Windows or Linux partitions, it only erases grub so you'll need to recreate it.
Grub is btw installed to ESP partition, which is a separate partition that UEFI (BIOS) uses to boot OS, so when grub gets erased it only erases data on that partition, but it doesn't touch Linux or Windows itself.

The recovery process itself is as simple as this:

sudo grub-install --boot-directory=/mnt/boot /dev/sdX
sudo update-grub

To obtain /mnt/boot directory in live system you would use sudo fdisk -l to list disks and then mount /boot directory of the offline system to /mnt/boot on live system.
/dev/sdX should be replaced with output from fdisk -l where X is partition name a or b etc; so usually sda or sdb (one of which will be Windows and another Linux) you need to identify Linux partition and use it.

Although I've never had a need for it so don't know the exact details how to.

I keep finding "install drives separately", but I'm still in the "distro hopping" phase and that method would require me to disassemble/reassemble my pc every time I tried a new distro.

If you have 2 drives that are installed each to its slot and each has its own OS there is nothing you need to do each time.

If you however have Linux and Windows on same drive, likewise you don't need to worry much and there is no need for 2 drives as long as you have live USB ready and you know how to recover grub. (now you do)

 

[Linux1D10T]

Thanks for the quick replies.
New territory is always nerve wracking at first.
I've been trying Linux on my old pc and always do a full Linux install (no Windows). Eventually I want to do the dual boot on my new pc.

 

[CaffeineAddict]

btw if you're considering to install Linux to same drive as Windows, during installation make sure you keep existing Windows partitions and do not delete them.

Linux installer will offer you to shrink Windows partition to make free space for Linux, which you accept, in any case do not delete Windows partition or WinRE partition or any other partitions Windows may have.

If there is enough free space that shouldn't be needed, Linux needs min. 20GiB free space usually.

ESP partition is separate and shared by both systems, likewise don't delete it.

 

[Linux1D10T]

btw if you're considering to install Linux to same drive as Windows, during installation make sure you keep existing Windows partitions and do not delete them.

Linux installer will offer you to shrink Windows partition to make free space for Linux, which you accept, in any case do not delete Windows partition or WinRE partition or any other partitions Windows may have.

If there is enough free space that shouldn't be needed, Linux needs min. 20GiB free space usually.

ESP partition is separate and shared by both systems, likewise don't delete it.

Thanks, but since I have 2 large nvme drives, so I want to keep the installs as separated as possible.

 

[bob466]

Welcome to the Forum.

The best and safest way to isolate windoze...is to run it as a Virtual Machine not dual boot.

 

[Linux1D10T]

Welcome to the Forum. View attachment 27480

The best and safest way to isolate windoze...is to run it as a Virtual Machine not dual boot. View attachment 27481

From what I understand there can be issues with VM and programs that need direct access to hardware if I understand it correctly. I guess it's a matter of sorting out which is the lesser of the two evils.

I haven't tried it in a VM, but I have a paid windows program that I need, and from what I've tested works under Linux except that I can't get it to access my scanner (it relies in scanned images), though it can access the printer (Brother AIO). Meanwhile Linux the scan app can access the scanner. Of course it's a single developer app with no equivalent and he has no intent on cross platform development.

 

[Trml]

Thanks, but since I have 2 large nvme drives, so I want to keep the installs as separated as possible.

If multiple drives are installed, your UEFI bios will support to choose a boot drive. It is actually no problem to install Linux with totally self-contained partitions on the second drive to start. Since it is going to be your first install, you could even decide to pull out the Windows nvme before you start the PC to install your chosen Linux distro to the second drive. Running it through a default install will end up with either one /efi and one /boot partition (some distros use one partition for both, but that's not common).

After you finished the install and tried it is satisfactory, physically reinstall the first Windows nvme into the machine and done. it is not very complex to later consolidate the Linux grub's efi to the first Windows nvme /efi partition. I skip on that for the moment, because you don't even need to consolidate for starters - you can also choose boot order for the drive in your uefi (some have a hotkey like F12 during boot for it, same as choosing an USB pen to boot), i.e. the second nvme boots Linux and the first Windows.

The reason it works is the UEFI specification allows for exactly one /efi partition per drive, with the boot order defining which one is picked. Installing like this not only means your Windows updates will (should!) leave the original Linux /efi partition alone, but also - even if you later consolidate the grub efi to the primary/first nvme /efi partition (or vice versa) - you will have a secondary/fallback boot for Linux available on the second nvme. Depending on the distro you choose, it may indeed happen that one automatically detects the Windows installation (on an update to grub later) and tries to create an (non-functional or working) entry in the grub bootloader menu for it (vice versa case). Yet, it won't touch an /efi partition that is not actively mounted at boot-time and is nothing to be warry about.

edit addendum: I remembered Christopher Barnatt once did a video on his "ExplainingComputers" youtube channel about the procedure and looked it up - it's called "Windows & Linux: Dual Drive Dual Boot".

 

[Trynna3]

Can't you just run Windows from a virtual machine? I have it this way and have been playing games. I increased the RAM to 32GB, which is plenty.
That after you decide for your final distro, or just backup the VM and import it into another distro if you decided to switch.

 

[bob466]

From what I understand there can be issues with VM and programs that need direct access to hardware if I understand it correctly. I guess it's a matter of sorting out which is the lesser of the two evils.

I haven't tried it in a VM, but I have a paid windows program that I need, and from what I've tested works under Linux except that I can't get it to access my scanner (it relies in scanned images), though it can access the printer (Brother AIO). Meanwhile Linux the scan app can access the scanner. Of course it's a single developer app with no equivalent and he has no intent on cross platform development.

What issues ?

In Linux a VM is an isolated file...not a Drive and you run it like it was a real Distro/OS.

I have a w7 VM I've had installed in Linux Mint Cinnamon for 10 years...it has my Printer/Scanner installed but you need windoze drivers.

I have my Printer/Scanner installed in Linux but you need to download Linux Drivers to get both to work...it's much easier to install a Printer/Scanner in windoze.

My w7 VM isn't connected to the net...so I don't have to worry about windoze nasties.

 

[CaffeineAddict]

From what I understand there can be issues with VM and programs that need direct access to hardware

Yes but some hardware can be passtrough, a procedure that makes hardware available in VM, good luck with it though, it's not easy.

Playing games in VM is bad option even with passtrough because hardware is shared with both OS's but you normally want all of it for games.
Same for any other programs that requires a lot of resources, for these cases you need powerful computer to use VM.

 

[Paul Chase]

I’d just install both systems on separate NVMe drives and use the BIOS boot menu to choose which one to start. That way you avoid bootloader headaches, and it’s perfect if you’re still distro-hopping.

 

[KGIII]

Playing games in VM is bad option even with passtrough because hardware is shared with both OS's but you normally want all of it for games.

I suppose that might be variable, based on the hardware they have and the games they want to play. Depending on the games they play, and the hardware they have, some games may be perfectly playable.

 

[APTI]

Sorry if this has already been discussed, but I'm new to Linux and haven't found the answer I need.

I'd like to do an isolated dual boot Windows/Linux system on separate nvme drives (mobo has 2 nvme slots).
I'd like to get away from Windows altogether, but have some niche programs that I need that won't run under Linux and the developers won't update them, so I'm stuck with dual boot at least for now. A big worry is breaking the bootloader or some similar issue that could result in data loss.

I keep finding "install drives separately", but I'm still in the "distro hopping" phase and that method would require me to disassemble/reassemble my pc every time I tried a new distro.

I know installing drives separately is the "sure fire" way, but since I have 2 nvme slots I sure would like to know if there a way to do isolated installs without all extra the hassle?

Thanks

This link is how it is best done with standard sata drives. I am hoping you will be able to find something similar for nvme and if you do then let me know

Thread 'Dual and Multi boot systems'

Oct 30, 2023

One thing many people do is make systems that will boot more than one choice of operating systems. This little article is a new and better way to do this. Often we have to fix the multi boot systems because an update changed something and damaged our grub configuration. Windows is especially good at doing this. So here is the best way to do this that allows you do make a multiboot system without having to do anything to grub or play with configurations.

This can only be done in a system that can accept more than one drive and an expansion card.

What you will need.

1.. One hard...

• APTI
• Replies: 8
• Forum: General Linux Topics

• 

 

[Linux1D10T]

I’d just install both systems on separate NVMe drives and use the BIOS boot menu to choose which one to start. That way you avoid bootloader headaches, and it’s perfect if you’re still distro-hopping.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you mean entering the BIOS and selecting the boot drive each time. If so then was thinking that it might be the most reliable, though not the most elegant option.

 

[Trml]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you mean entering the BIOS and selecting the boot drive each time. If so then was thinking that it might be the most reliable, though not the most elegant option.

Yes, that's the suggestion. How elegant it is depends on how your motherboard implements the selection. It's simple to upgrade such an initial configuration to one boot drive later, after you got your feet wet with Linux. The only thing you waste then is a little disk space for the doubling of boot partitions on the second drive, conversely you gain a fallback by having them. But remember Brickwizard's advice to disable Windows fast start above.

 

[wizardfromoz]

@Linux1D10T G'day from Downunder and welcome to linux.org

I'd like to ask a couple of questions of you before adding more, related to

...but have some niche programs that I need that won't run under Linux and the developers won't update them, so I'm stuck with dual boot at least for now.

Q1. Do these programmes use or require internet access? Meaning, if Windows internet access is restricted or cut off, can you still use them?

...but since I have 2 nvme slots...

Q2. Which of them contains Windows and which version, and what are the drive capacitiies?

On

I keep finding "install drives separately", but I'm still in the "distro hopping" phase and that method would require me to disassemble/reassemble my pc every time I tried a new distro.

In my experience I believe we can avoid that.

I know installing drives separately is the "sure fire" way, but since I have 2 nvme slots I sure would like to know if there a way to do isolated installs without all extra the hassle?

(My highlighting) ...Likely so.

Cheers

Chris Turner
wizardfromoz

 

[Linux1D10T]

@Linux1D10T G'day from Downunder and welcome to linux.org

I'd like to ask a couple of questions of you before adding more, related to



Q1. Do these programmes use or require internet access? Meaning, if Windows internet access is restricted or cut off, can you still use them?



Q2. Which of them contains Windows and which version, and what are the drive capacitiies?

On



In my experience I believe we can avoid that.


(My highlighting) ...Likely so.

Cheers

Chris Turner
wizardfromoz

I think the main program I need only needs internet access for registration. Windows is in 1st nvme slot. 2nd drive isn't installed in this pc yet. Windows drive in 2tb, Linux drive is 1 tb.