Australia - The Land Down Under
- Thread starter Condobloke
- Start date
I have. This is what I did for a living.
Well, sort of... I did research and modeling. We also offered consultation.
To be clear, you're not arguing with me. You're arguing with the science. This is well-studied and well-documented.
You may personally not like them. That's fine. However, to argue this, you need to present a hypothesis with hard data that is quantifiable, verifiable, and falsifiable. If you can do that, you stand a good chance at making a bunch of money if you can find a way to market your skills.
I, for one, wish you the best of luck in doing so. I'll even help you get your research published and do the initial peer review for you.
They're growing in number steadily. You'll note that our accident rate is quite high, a lack of roundabouts is part of that reason.
A big problem is we don't invest in changing things so much as we invest in just repairing what we have. There's a reason we have 40,000+ driver fatalities. We kind of suck at having a good infrastructure, for a variety of reasons (many of which are political).
They're the same that are already calculated. The science doesn't differentiate between those that drive well and those that do not. It is all of the traffic.
Again, I welcome you to do just that. If you can overturn the science, that's a good thing. Science isn't always right, it's just the best answer we had at the time. It's the best model to make predictions about the outcome. If the science was always right, we'd stop doing science.
If you can show that they're unsafe, I'll immediately change my views on them - assuming it is sound science and data collection.
I get it... You don't like them. Many people don't like them. Many people don't even understand them worth a fig. They're still safer, more efficient, more effective use of land, etc... That data includes everyone - including the people who don't like them or care to drive properly within them.
That's why it's sound science. That's why the data is valid.
If you can overturn the science, it'll be impressive. I'm all for forwarding the art.
I'm not kidding. If you can prove otherwise, I'll help you get your research published.
Only in Pennsylvania...
In downtown Ligonier, PA, they have a roundabout that's, you know... square. And there's a little park like bit in the middle... that's accessible by four crosswalks.
Now granted, "downtown Ligonier" is probably not a high traffic area and, for all I know, this monstrosity might be a hold over from the horse-and-buggy days but still - who thinks up stuff like this?
In downtown Ligonier, PA, they have a roundabout that's, you know... square. And there's a little park like bit in the middle... that's accessible by four crosswalks.
Now granted, "downtown Ligonier" is probably not a high traffic area and, for all I know, this monstrosity might be a hold over from the horse-and-buggy days but still - who thinks up stuff like this?
Last edited:
You will probably find it goes back to the town's origin, and copied from London by an early settler, there are several such squares in London [and Paris for that matter] and is where the higher classes would live.
Cavendish square is probably the least changed built in the George II reign [circ.1717]
There are a few that are essentially roundabouts and squares/rectangles. They weren't designed that way, but they have the same rules as you have for roundabouts.
In most cases, they were the original roads - usually just two-lane roads - and traffic was as you'd expect it. Then, as the town grew, they decided to change the traffic flow pattern, turning it into a roundabout.
It was raining heavily one night long ago... I pulled into one such roundabout in Vermont. I forget the name. Only, I couldn't tell what the signs were asking me to do. I just knew that I wanted to go straight.
So, forward I went...
I noticed that the road was pretty narrow, but I kept going.
I crossed another road (which was the other side of the village square that had been turned into a roundabout) and made it about 200' before the blue lights behind me made me think it was a good idea to stop. I couldn't find my paperwork or even my license so the cop just told me that I'd driven straight through a park instead of going around the roundabout. He then left pretty quickly because it was raining heavily.
So, yeah... I drove straight through a park instead of driving around it in a circular fashion. It was very dark and very rainy. It was also poorly lit. I didn't even get a ticket. I just got a 45-second lecture.
That does explain the narrow road and bushes. If it wasn't raining, I probably would have received a ticket.
A lot of areas were founded without much thought to the roads. In Boston, for example, doesn't have the grid pattern in much of the city proper. They say that the city's roads were based on cow paths. Boston Common (the park) was one of the areas where you could let your livestock graze.
There are other areas that have it worse. Fez, Morocco, has a large section that simply can't accommodate cars. You park on the outskirts of the medina and take a taxi in as far as you can go. After that, you're on foot.
Anyhow, I don't want to derail this thread too much. We've already taken it on quite a tangent and the thread's topic is @Condobloke's lovely nation.
OP
Condobloke
Well-Known Member
how about some cattle burps?
Long lauded as a danger to climate change/mehan emissions etc the Australia Federal Government has adopted a new equation to calculate methane from grain-fed cattle following research by the University of New England.
www.abc.net.au
Australian feedlot cattle don't release as much methane as once thought, according to new research
There are an enormous number of feedlot cattle in Australia
Long lauded as a danger to climate change/mehan emissions etc the Australia Federal Government has adopted a new equation to calculate methane from grain-fed cattle following research by the University of New England.
Grain-fed cattle emissions 56 per cent lower than previous estimates, research finds
Emissions from grain-fed cattle 'burps' revised significantly lower
The federal government revises the feedlot industry's contribution to greenhouse gas emissions after adopting a new equation to calculate methane from grain-fed cattle burps.
www.abc.net.au
Australian feedlot cattle don't release as much methane as once thought, according to new research
There are an enormous number of feedlot cattle in Australia
Last edited:
Sherri is a Cat
Well-Known Member
There was a time when I wouldn't question the data. That was before Iris.
It was a beautiful day, early December in Ohio. We were driving through a quaint little town, window-shoppers walking up and down the lane peering into shops. With anticipation I thought about the Christmas lights we would see that evening when the sun passed over the horizon. Suddenly I was jolted from my daydreams as my body lurched forward. My head snapped around to see cars and trucks heading toward us in a one lane circular drive. Iris turned left into the traffic, then right onto the raised island of thorny rose bushes. Car horns were honking, people were yelling and Iris was swearing back at them. Shaking her fist she hollered, "I'm 72 years old!"
Data can be manipulated. Perhaps more importantly, incomplete. I doubt those numbers have metrics for 72 year old American women who think their age will keep them out of trouble if they cause accidents when they don't pay attention or think the rules don't apply to them.
Last edited:
In this case, you can verify the data sets yourself. It's also well studied, peer reviewed, and very heavily tested.
Remember: You're a sample size of one. Think of all the times it didn't end up in an accident..Then, think of all the accidents that happen outside of roundabouts.
(By the way, that's a logical fallacy known as 'hasty generalization', should you wish to look deeper.)
OP
Condobloke
Well-Known Member
Gout Gout.
www.nine.com.au
'Crazy', hard-to-spot detail linking Gout with Lewis, Bolt
'He's in that rarefied atmosphere'
Last edited:
He's at the right age for this. By that, I mean that he'll be in his prime (or near it) for the 2028 Olympics.
Also, it's amazing how much medical science has advanced these things and how well athletes are performing today. The training and equipment has also improved a ton. Running shoes are much more advanced than they were when I was a kid. They spend hours dedicated to things like gait mechanics. It's insane and I miss jogging.
I just watched a video of this dude, and he has potential. Sprinting is an unforgiving sport. One mistake and there's likely no recovery, even on the longer sprints. This kid is fast, and not just fast for his age.
It's still a fairly new page (I checked the history) but he's already got his own Wikipedia page.
Assuming a smooth next few years, he'll be about 20 years old and in the Olympics. I'm sure you Aussies will continue to give him a proper fan base. Fans don't make you win races but they give you more motivation to do so.
Also, it's amazing how much medical science has advanced these things and how well athletes are performing today. The training and equipment has also improved a ton. Running shoes are much more advanced than they were when I was a kid. They spend hours dedicated to things like gait mechanics. It's insane and I miss jogging.
I just watched a video of this dude, and he has potential. Sprinting is an unforgiving sport. One mistake and there's likely no recovery, even on the longer sprints. This kid is fast, and not just fast for his age.
It's still a fairly new page (I checked the history) but he's already got his own Wikipedia page.
Assuming a smooth next few years, he'll be about 20 years old and in the Olympics. I'm sure you Aussies will continue to give him a proper fan base. Fans don't make you win races but they give you more motivation to do so.
OP
Condobloke
Well-Known Member
His best trait (from my perpective) is his personality
He is truly, a good person
I think his coach /manager, is similar. His parents are good people.
he has every chance of staying that way for his lifes duration. I really do wish him the best, and a clear mind to achieve everything that he can.
He is truly, a good person
I think his coach /manager, is similar. His parents are good people.
he has every chance of staying that way for his lifes duration. I really do wish him the best, and a clear mind to achieve everything that he can.
Sherri is a Cat
Well-Known Member
I thought you would realize I'm not serious when I said this.
I generally don't feel safe being in a car with Iris regardless of what she's driving, where she's driving or what kind of road it is. She turned right into the traffic exiting the highway one day. Parallel parking is a nightmare, the camera she has on the back of her SUV is no help at all. She doesn't trust it I guess, or it doesn't make sense? I don't know.
Iris is a one of a kind friend, but her driving is horrible! There is metric for that.
We make it far too easy to get a license here in the US. Then again, our public transportation options are quite poor.
I'll keep an eye out for him in the Olympics. (It seems likely that he'd work toward that goal.)
Sherri is a Cat
Well-Known Member
I had the same thoughts as a teenager. My grandfather was taking us home after teaching me how to drive. I clearly remember thinking that he should have left me in the drivers seat as we drifted across three lanes of rush hour traffic on the highway. He was hard of hearing and didn't know I was telling him we were about to in an accident. I didn't have the hear to tell him it would be his fault. He looked over to me as he yelled 'HUH?'. Deaf people don't know how loud they speak. It was about then that he realized we straddling two lanes and drifting right. He very calmly yelled 'OH, I'M IN THEIR LANE'.
At least Iris can hear the people yelling obscenities and calling her names.
OP
Condobloke
Well-Known Member
OP
Condobloke
Well-Known Member
Sherri is a Cat
Well-Known Member
I like this part...Gout Gout.
'Crazy', hard-to-spot detail linking Gout with Lewis, Bolt
'He's in that rarefied atmosphere'
"...enjoy competing against the kid while he's still inexperienced, because you'll soon be "in a lot of trouble".
I live pretty remotely, but not that remotely.
I don't have many people in my area, but there are a few. We're just not in an actually incorporated township. I enjoy it.
I don't know how much I'd like living that remotely. I also wouldn't like the heat.
I don't have many people in my area, but there are a few. We're just not in an actually incorporated township. I enjoy it.
I don't know how much I'd like living that remotely. I also wouldn't like the heat.
