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f33dm3bits

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Canonical has made a zillion other changes that meant you couldn't use Ubuntu unless you did it their way - so hasn't ever other distro. Once again, I point out the similarities between you folks and the people who railed against systemd.

Rather than beat a dead horse, read my post at #14.
I am not against Snaps but I am against not getting a choice whether you want to remove them or not, currently you still can. Yes deb and rpm distributions have a different way of how their configuration files are setup for some applications but that's a lot different. Systemd is a whole other level because that is an init system but there should be no need to not give someone a choice whether they want to use one packaging system over another when it comes to containerized applications. I don't appreciate being compared to those people as I actually like systemd because it has made things easier and given more standardization among most distributions, I do dislike certain things about systemd but I can live with since it's as suite of things and you can choose to not use something if it's something other than the init system.
 
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I wasn't aware of any reliable source for numbers of home users using what distros, but you can share with us if you like.

I sure can. :D

Check any Linux market share site and then look for distros that don't use systemd. For example, here's one:


Or another:


(Feel free to find your own. I want to say you can opt to use Arch without systemd, so you can count all of them as systemd-free users if you want.)

They won't be 100% accurate, but they're reliable enough to be adequate for this purpose. You can also note how much content is created for those systemd distros and (using this site) how frequent those distros are asked about on support sites.

I'll subscribe to Brian's suggestion

That sounds reasonable - though I suspect there will be more Snap threads. I'll make this my last post in the thread (along these lines, I mean if someone says hello I won't ignore 'em!).

I am not against Snaps but I am against not getting a choice whether you want to remove them or not, currently you still can.

I'll let this rest but try to give you one more bit of food for thought.

To me, it's a bit like being mad that Red Hat defaults to RPMs and you can't use RHEL without RPMs.

You've already made your decision, and it's awesome that Linux lets you do that. You can be 100% certain that there will be distros without Snaps. Heck, there will probably always be distros based on Ubuntu that don't rely on Snaps.

Yeah, if you want to go Snap-less entirely, then 22.04 *might* be the last LTS for you. I'm not 100% sure of the Ubuntu road-map but (if I'm following the discussion well enough) there will be some core components that are Snap-only soon. (As mentioned above, Ubuntu Core is already Snap-based.)

If I was against Snaps, I'd worry about software being released only as Snaps. For example, the Steam client mentioned here... There would be much gnashing of teeth if Steam chose to only release on Linux as a Snap.
 

f33dm3bits

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I'll let this rest but try to give you one more bit of food for thought.

To me, it's a bit like being mad that Red Hat defaults to RPMs and you can't use RHEL without RPMs.

You've already made your decision, and it's awesome that Linux lets you do that. You can be 100% certain that there will be distros without Snaps. Heck, there will probably always be distros based on Ubuntu that don't rely on Snaps.
I could go on but I'm tired of going on about it lol, just one last thing to say about it and then I'm done with it as well. The different package formats has been like since the beginning of when more distributions popped up. AppImages, Flatpaks and Snaps were mostly designed to bring more standardization for deploying user applications on the desktop although Snaps can do more. Why integrate something that was actually mostly meant for user applications into the core of an os, I wouldn't like it either if that did that with Flatpaks in Rhel.
 

wizardfromoz

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On

https://www.enterpriseappstoday.com/stats/linux-statistics.html

You fell for that one (I read that one before I posted yesterday) the W3techs reference is woeful, does not even include Linux Mint or MX-21

The second is a little better, and it lists Linux Mint as No.1 but still no reference to the MX-series, and is 3 years or more out of date (even though edited) with references to 18.04 Bionic, and so on (including CentOS changes)

Which is why I was confident in saying

I wasn't aware of any reliable source for numbers of home users using what distros,

... because there aren't, but you tried.

I'm with Maarten and out of here.

Cheers

Wizard
 

sphen

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I sure can. :D

Check any Linux market share site and then look for distros that don't use systemd. For example, here's one:
https://www.enterpriseappstoday.com/stats/linux-statistics.html
Or another:
https://www.tecmint.com/linux-distributions/
(Feel free to find your own. I want to say you can opt to use Arch without systemd, so you can count all of them as systemd-free users if you want.)

They won't be 100% accurate, but they're reliable enough to be adequate for this purpose. You can also note how much content is created for those systemd distros and (using this site) how frequent those distros are asked about on support sites.
[...]
I looked at those two links. I agree with your statement that, "They won't be 100% accurate..." but disagree with "... but they're reliable enough to be adequate for this purpose." They do not look reliable to me, and the results they report do not match my intuition about distro popularity, either.
 
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KGIII

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They do not look reliable to me, and the results they report do not match my intuition about distro popularity, either.

Then go by content created for those distros or use any 'top ten' list you want. Ubuntu, Debian, and RHEL (and their derivatives, including stuff like Mint) are the most popular, by a wide margin. You're not going to find 100% accurate top ten lists - but they certainly are close enough (especially with the rest of the information) to make an informed conclusion.

Heck, use you as an example... The distros you've mentioned using are all systemd based. (If you count servers, they generally only offer stuff with systemd, though you could upload your own .iso not that many folks do so. There's Ubuntu, RHEL, and Debian dominate as well.)

The numbers I linked to earlier would show *more* distros with systemd, not less. It's from back when they were still moving to systemd.
 

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