Managing updates - hesitant

[Sue M]

I've been using Linux Mint for about 5 years now and managing all my work/leisure requirements without problems. However, the last time I acted on the Updates reminder, I lost my graphics driver and had a completely blank screen, so I had to reinstall everything (yes, I do use Timeshift, but the blackout lost me a day's work). I've now got a reminder that I can upgrade to Linux Mint 20.3 Una but I'm hesitant to do any updates that might cause the same problem. Any advice from more experienced users, please?
Here are the details of my system:

Description: Linux Mint 20.2
Release: 20.2
Codename: uma

System:    Kernel: 5.4.0-74-generic x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 9.3.0 Desktop: Cinnamon 5.0.4
           wm: muffin dm: LightDM Distro: Linux Mint 20.2 Uma base: Ubuntu 20.04 focal
Machine:   Type: Laptop System: HP product: OMEN by HP Laptop 15-dc1xxx v: N/A serial: <filter>
           Chassis: type: 10 serial: <filter>
           Mobo: HP model: 8574 v: 21.16 serial: <filter> UEFI: AMI v: F.19 date: 08/14/2020
Battery:   ID-1: BAT0 charge: 66.5 Wh condition: 66.5/66.5 Wh (100%) volts: 17.2/15.4
           model: HP Primary serial: <filter> status: Full
CPU:       Topology: 6-Core model: Intel Core i7-9750H bits: 64 type: MT MCP arch: Kaby Lake
           rev: D L2 cache: 12.0 MiB
           flags: avx avx2 lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx bogomips: 62399
           Speed: 4159 MHz min/max: 800/4500 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 4013 2: 4202 3: 4176
           4: 4183 5: 4193 6: 4187 7: 4171 8: 4178 9: 4171 10: 4169 11: 4198 12: 4193
Graphics:  Device-1: NVIDIA TU116M [GeForce GTX 1660 Ti Mobile] vendor: Hewlett-Packard
           driver: nvidia v: 470.199.02 bus ID: 01:00.0 chip ID: 10de:2191
           Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.9 driver: nvidia
           unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,nouveau,vesa resolution: 1920x1080~144Hz
           OpenGL: renderer: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 Ti/PCIe/SSE2 v: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 470.199.02
           direct render: Yes
Audio:     Device-1: Intel Cannon Lake PCH cAVS vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: snd_hda_intel
           v: kernel bus ID: 00:1f.3 chip ID: 8086:a348
           Device-2: NVIDIA TU116 High Definition Audio vendor: Hewlett-Packard
           driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 01:00.1 chip ID: 10de:1aeb
           Sound Server: ALSA v: k5.4.0-74-generic
Network:   Device-1: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet
           vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: r8169 v: kernel port: 3000 bus ID: 3c:00.0
           chip ID: 10ec:8168
           IF: eno1 state: down mac: <filter>
           Device-2: Intel Wi-Fi 6 AX200 driver: iwlwifi v: kernel port: 3000 bus ID: 3d:00.0
           chip ID: 8086:2723
           IF: wlo1 state: up mac: <filter>
Drives:    Local Storage: total: 1.10 TiB used: 645.60 GiB (57.3%)
           ID-1: /dev/mmcblk0 model: SL200 size: 183.35 GiB serial: <filter>
           ID-2: /dev/nvme0n1 vendor: Samsung model: MZVLB512HBJQ-000H1 size: 476.94 GiB
           speed: 31.6 Gb/s lanes: 4 serial: <filter>
           ID-3: /dev/sdb type: USB model: Realtek RTL9210B-CG size: 465.76 GiB serial: <filter>
RAID:      Hardware-1: Intel 82801 Mobile SATA Controller [RAID mode] driver: ahci v: 3.0
           bus ID: 00:17.0 chip ID: 8086.282a
Partition: ID-1: / size: 467.96 GiB used: 176.05 GiB (37.6%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/nvme0n1p2
USB:       Hub: 1-0:1 info: Full speed (or root) Hub ports: 16 rev: 2.0 chip ID: 1d6b:0002
           Hub: 1-2:35 info: Realtek 4-Port USB 2.0 Hub ports: 4 rev: 2.1 chip ID: 0bda:5411
           Hub: 1-2.1:36 info: Realtek ports: 4 rev: 2.1 chip ID: 0bda:5411
           Device-1: 1-2.1.1:38 info: Cherry Keyboard type: Keyboard driver: hid-generic,usbhid
           rev: 2.0 chip ID: 046a:0001
           Device-2: 1-2.2:37 info: Maxxter 4-Port USB 2.0 Hub type: Mouse,Keyboard
           driver: hid-generic,usbhid rev: 1.1 chip ID: 248a:8367
           Device-3: 1-4:3 info: Realtek RTL9210B-CG type: Mass Storage driver: usb-storage
           rev: 2.1 chip ID: 0bda:9210
           Device-4: 1-6:5 info: Quanta HP Wide Vision HD Camera type: Video driver: uvcvideo
           rev: 2.0 chip ID: 0408:5300
           Device-5: 1-7:8 info: Intel type: Bluetooth driver: btusb rev: 2.0 chip ID: 8087:0029
           Hub: 2-0:1 info: Full speed (or root) Hub ports: 8 rev: 3.1 chip ID: 1d6b:0003
           Hub: 2-2:8 info: Realtek 4-Port USB 3.0 Hub ports: 4 rev: 3.0 chip ID: 0bda:0411
           Hub: 2-2.1:9 info: Realtek ports: 4 rev: 3.0 chip ID: 0bda:0411
           Hub: 3-0:1 info: Full speed (or root) Hub ports: 2 rev: 2.0 chip ID: 1d6b:0002
           Hub: 4-0:1 info: Full speed (or root) Hub ports: 4 rev: 3.1 chip ID: 1d6b:0003
           Hub: 5-0:1 info: Full speed (or root) Hub ports: 2 rev: 2.0 chip ID: 1d6b:0002
           Hub: 6-0:1 info: Full speed (or root) Hub ports: 2 rev: 3.1 chip ID: 1d6b:0003
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 52.0 C mobo: N/A gpu: nvidia temp: 54 C
           Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A
Repos:     No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/official-package-repositories.list
           1: deb http: //packages.linuxmint.com uma main upstream import backport #id:linuxmint_main
           2: deb http: //archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu focal main restricted universe multiverse
           3: deb http: //archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu focal-updates main restricted universe multiverse
           4: deb http: //archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu focal-backports main restricted universe multiverse
           5: deb http: //security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ focal-security main restricted universe multiverse
           6: deb http: //archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/ focal partner
Info:      Processes: 373 Uptime: 19d 18h 21m Memory: 62.69 GiB used: 9.30 GiB (14.8%)
           Init: systemd v: 245 runlevel: 5 Compilers: gcc: 9.3.0 alt: 9
           Client: Unknown python3.8 client inxi: 3.0.38

RAM
total used free shared buff/cache available
Mem: 62Gi 5.7Gi 8.7Gi 250Mi 48Gi 56Gi
Swap: 2.0Gi 0.0Ki 2.0Gi

 

[Brickwizard]

Linux Mint 20.2 Uma

the current mint is 21. you can upgrade directly to that if you wish. When using the updater it should keep any drivers you have added, unlike a fresh installation which wipes everything [I will call on @Condobloke for his opinion]
The mint updater is generally fairly safe, however I will always take precautions
1] save any files folders etc to external storage,
2] run timeshift [or similar] to make sure I have the latest image of current system
3] run mint updater

 

[osprey]

@Sue M wrote:

I've been using Linux Mint for about 5 years now and managing all my work/leisure requirements without problems. However, the last time I acted on the Updates reminder, I lost my graphics driver and had a completely blank screen, so I had to reinstall everything (yes, I do use Timeshift, but the blackout lost me a day's work). I've now got a reminder that I can upgrade to Linux Mint 20.3 Una but I'm hesitant to do any updates that might cause the same problem. Any advice from more experienced users, please?

If you update and upgrade on the command line in a terminal, using the apt command as sudo or root, then the output on screen of the command: apt upgrade, will show you what it proposes to do. It will show which programs it will upgrade, which it suggests to remove and which new programs it will install. Then you can choose what to do. Before the command: apt upgrade, one ought to run the command: apt update, which refreshes the info for the apt command to get the latest packages from the repos.

The command: apt upgrade, (run after the command: apt update) will NOT remove programs, but only install those that the upgrade command has shown on screen, which makes upgrading reasonably safe. The upgrade command will often suggest what to remove and let you know that you can run the command: apt autoremove, to remove what it suggests. If you do not agree with the suggestions, you can refrain from running the autoremove command. Alternatively, you can note what it will remove but which you wish to retain, run the autoremove option to let it remove the packages, and then re-install what you had noted that you wished to keep.

The GUI package managers run the apt commands behind their graphical interface, but users using apt directly can have a finer control of the processes. One can configure pinning packages so that they don't upgrade, if that's what one wishes, but upgrade everything else.

In relation to graphics drivers, there are, in the case of nvidia, alternatives such as mentioned here for linux mint: https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=408762
Basically, the distros generally recommend installing the packages from their repos rather than the proprietary ones from nvidia. However, the proprietary drivers are capable of using a greater number of the graphical features of the nvidia cards than the repo packages and some users have a use for those, for example, movie makers and heavy games players. YMMV.

 

[kc1di]

I Believe what may have happened to you is that the kernel was upgraded to a newer one and was no longer compatible with your nvidia graphics card. You can avoid that when you upgrade. which you will have to do when your current version is End of Life. As it's repositories will be disabled shortly after that date.

Update Manager: Understanding and Optimizing It

Easy tips, tweaks and tricks for Linux Mint and Ubuntu, both for beginners and for advanced users. Complete starter's guide with simple how-to's.

easylinuxtipsproject.blogspot.com

 

[atanere]

Any advice from more experienced users, please?

I would always highly recommend all computer users to stay up to date with their operating system and applications. Always. Mac, Windows, Linux, or anything else. There are more dangerous things than a broken graphics driver that updates protect you from.

If an update breaks something, use Timeshift to quickly get back to where you were, then figure out the problem and proceed with updates again. Not all updates will break your Linux, but don't let your fear prevent you from properly maintaining your system. Getting proficient with Timeshift will help ease your fears too.

But you are so far behind now, I'm not sure that I would go forward either. You are on 20.2... these remain for you to get caught up:
20.3
21.0
21.1
21.2
21.3

Not only that, but Ubuntu will release 24.04 in less than a month, and Mint will soon follow that with 22.0... that will be 2 major revisions you will soon need. I don't think that would be worth the headache of trying to upgrade in place.

So, personally, I would bite the bullet, make good backups of my /home folder or other important data, and do a fresh install of Mint 22.0 when it is released. I'm not sure Timeshift is the best tool for this, but it can save your /home folder too, so it may be useful... but you don't want to restore the old OS files over the new OS that you fresh install. When the new Mint 22 is up and running well, then start your Timeshift snapshot series over again fresh and keep it current. Good luck!

 

[KGIII]

and do a fresh install of Mint 22.0 when it is released.

I'm not sure that I'd want to wait that long, even though it's less than a month away, with insecure software on a system that connects to the internet.

I'd do the rest of what you said but I'd install 21.3 in the interim.

 

[Condobloke]

G'day Sue, Welcome to linux.org

When using the updater it should keep any drivers you have added, unlike a fresh installation which wipes everything [I will call on @Condobloke for his opinion]
The mint updater is generally fairly safe, however I will always take precautions

Updater will keep any drivers added by you, but as its name suggests will update those which are a part of the kernel... that have had improvements made to them etc
I also use Timeshift. Snapshots saved to an external drive. I keep 4 at all times. Just in case. The last time I needed to use one because Linux Mint updates went south, is a longggg time ago

So, the cause of your meltdown is likely not the fault of the updater. We are not aware of your setup and how you manage it, so it is very difficult to say, definitively. Do you update regularly?

All of the above suggestions are good......specifically @osprey's, @kc1di's, and in particular @atanere's. That is pure gold.

If you have the time now, I would run a fresh install of Linux Mint 23.1 To upgrade further when LM24 comes out will be trivial.....usually a few minor instruction under Edit in Update Manager taking a few minutes and it is done.

I'd install 21.3 in the interim.

So @KGIII's suggestion coupled with @ Atanere's is definitely the way to go

When you install, allow the 23.1 system to provide the driver for your graphics card.
After it has installed...click on menu, type in driver manager...allow it to scan and settle for the default onboard graphics.
Again, I have no idea what you use your pc for, so a shift to the Nvidia driver may be necessary in your situation.

Just so you know, I run LM21.3 and have found it to be rock solid in every possible way.

 

[blunix]

I'm not much familiar with the nvidia drivers - I'd recommend nouveau as its FOSS and didnt break anything for me in 10(?) years or so. Its not as performant as the nvidia one though - so if you are into gaming, blender or hardcore-gimp that might not be the thing for you. Otherwise there is no need to run this closed source nonsense.

Security upgrades you should install automatically, I'm sure that can be configured in the software-update-gui thing somewhere, if not its literally the first advice in The ULTIMATE Guide to Reasonable Security for your Debian/Ubuntu Linux Server for new Linux Users here in the forum x)

Installing security upgrades automatically is not optional in my opinion.

Don't blame Linux Mint, blame nvidia.

 

[bob466]

I've been using Linux Mint for about 5 years now and managing all my work/leisure requirements without problems. However, the last time I acted on the Updates reminder, I lost my graphics driver and had a completely blank screen, so I had to reinstall everything (yes, I do use Timeshift, but the blackout lost me a day's work). I've now got a reminder that I can upgrade to Linux Mint 20.3 Una but I'm hesitant to do any updates that might cause the same problem. Any advice from more experienced users, please?
Here are the details of my system:

Welcome to the Forum.

I've been running Mint Cinnamon for years and have never had any problems with updates...you must install all updates that are offered in the Update Manager.

If you're going to do a clean install...choose Mint 21.3 as it's supported till 2027...https://www.linuxmint.com/download_all.php
I have a Nvidia Graphics Card and don't get this problem...the Graphics Card drivers will also be offered in the Update Manager. You can restore a Timeshift snapshot from the Live Session when you can't access the Desktop.

It's also a good idea to create an image of your System with Foxclone or Redorescue...should anything like this happen again...it's a simple matter to put the image back on the Drive.

 

[Sue M]

Thank you. I use this laptop for writing, desktop publishing, maintenance of web sites, and image/sound/video editing. Until the graphics debacle I used to install updates routinely. I'm currently using an old version of Cinnamon due to the fact that it was the only one I still had on USB to get things restarted. However, now I'll download 23.1, and learn about Foxclone and Redorescue.
Thank you all for your suggestions and knowledge.

 

[Condobloke]

Just to make sure you stay busy....LOL....you could also take a peek at Rescuezilla ...... https://github.com/rescuezilla/rescuezilla

In short...it is a GUI for Clonezilla. Quite simple to use. (that is from experience)

 

[bob466]

Thank you. I use this laptop for writing, desktop publishing, maintenance of web sites, and image/sound/video editing. Until the graphics debacle I used to install updates routinely. I'm currently using an old version of Cinnamon due to the fact that it was the only one I still had on USB to get things restarted. However, now I'll download 23.1, and learn about Foxclone and Redorescue.
Thank you all for your suggestions and knowledge.

You won't be able to download Mint Cinnamon 23.1 as doesn't exist yet...download 21.3.

Foxclone https://foxclone.org/ is easy to use and comes with a user guide...https://foxclone.org/uguide.html

Redorescue http://redorescue.com/ works much the same as Foxclone...I use both...hope this helps.

 

[Sue M]

23.1 instead of 21.3 - That was me copying a typo further up the thread. I’ve downloaded 21.3.

 

[Sue M]

...nouveau as its FOSS and didnt break anything for me in 10(?) years or so.

Don't blame Linux Mint, blame nvidia.

Here's an unexpected riposte from my system - I went looking at the graphics drivers in Driver Manager, and tried the nouveau (expecting to get the usual "here's what your display will look like if you choose to keep this..." plus a countdown before reverting). Instead I got just the option to "restart to enable changes". So I restarted, and got the black screen again!
Thinking I'd have to do that fresh install of 21.3, faut de mieux, I went to the BIOS on the next boot up, looking to make sure the boot menu options included from USB, and there I found that for some reason Legacy Boot was disabled. I re-enabled it and behold! Everything booted up as normal.
So neither nvidia nor Linux Mint seem to have been at fault here. It was, after all, the BIOS setting.
Have done my updates... thanks for all the advice!

 

[Condobloke]

Good on you for sticking with it.

Well done .....glad to hear it has booted up and is behaving.