Installing on laptop that has Windows 11 installed

Jim43

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My personal computers (desktop and new laptop) both are running Ubuntu 20.04.3 LTS without problem. Recently, my wife got fed up with Microsoft and their almost constant updates/upgrades to the operating system. Her computer, a HP laptop less than two years old, was (is) running Windows 10 but had started the automated process to upgrade to Windows 11. The upgrade program started asking for some password that she seldom used and would refuse to continue until (unless) the entered password correctly matched what was on file. Out of total frustration, she told me that I could put Linux on her laptop. That laptop has a CD/DVD drive, so I tried to install from a DVD that had been burned a month earlier. Three times I tried and three times the laptop refused to even see the ISO file on the DVD. Next, I tried a USB drive with the same distro and got the same results. Finally, I attempted to try a live, on-line download and install. Again, fail. It almost seems to me that Microsoft has embedded some code into the Windows 11 update that effectively blocks the instillation of any program that is not approved by Microsoft and that does not, before being installed, comply with all of the Microsoft requirements. My wife is not without a computer. I had already installed Linux on her previous laptop and it works just fine. She simply would like to be able to use her newer laptop. What I would like to see is an update to Linux that could bypass whatever blocking code Microsoft has in place.
Thank you for any comments. Even though it might be a few days between my visits to this site.
Jim43
 


Brickwizard

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W10/11 machines never turn fully off, they go into a form of deep hibernation, this makes them faster on startup, so the first thing I would do is find and turn off the quick start . Then shut it down before starting your Linux install

addendum, see https://www.softwareok.com/?page=Windows/10/Quick-Tip/57
 
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unprepar3D

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Just to check: what are the contents of the DVD/USB? Becaus you wrote "...refused to even see the ISO file on the DVD..." There should not be an iso file on the DVD/USB but the contents of said image file. You can test if the stick is bootable in a vm.

Windows should not (can not) interfere with the boot process, all things needed to boot from usb/dvd are happening way before the windows bootloader
 

Brickwizard

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Lord Boltar

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First I would go into the BIOS and make sure Secure Boot is turned off - Then create a Live USB from an Ubuntu machine use Gnome Startup Disk Creator or Etcher, from Windows use Rufus - once created tap the F12 key during boot to enter the one-time startup window and select the USB drive
 

unprepar3D

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Oh contrair, see my post above

But thats has nothing to do with the boot up process of an USB drive. Maybe you cant resize partitions in the installer partition tool but it does not prevent an USB from booting up.
The computer starts the normal way even if windows isnt shut down properly. Mainboard POSTs, selects the boot device and then the OS/installation Media begins to do its thing. If you select USB boot drive, the hdd and its state dont matter

/edit TO could be more specific about his failed tries. For me it almost reads like he tries to install from inside Windows?
 
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Brickwizard

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But thats has nothing to do with the boot up process
If you can't switch off windows completely [which is what this bit of software does, ] every time you THINK you're re-booting, all you are actually doing is waking windows up
 

unprepar3D

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This is power saving mode, not hibernation imho. Hibernation can write current OS status to RAM or Disk. If to RAM is used youre right because theres no POST I think. But afaik Windows does suspend to disk where the board boots up normally but the Windows bootloader loads the saved session istead of a new one.

Ive installed dozens of Linux distros on bare metal and never had a problem booting up. But maybe I'm on the wrong train or how you say in english^^
 

Brickwizard

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Ive installed dozens of Linux distros on bare metal
So have I over the last 20 years, this is a windows 10/11 problem if you have a new machine with the windows with the pre-installation, but have not actually installed it then yes you can go direct to the quick boot menu If Windows 10 or 11 are already installed and running then no you cannot get into fast boot, without first disabling windows quick start and then turning off [I also pull the battery to make sure]
 

unprepar3D

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Maybe my PC is too old then. I have windows linux dual boot and never had problem. My PC is from 2009, using Linux since 2004/05 or so. I could restart my computer right now and boot from USB no problem. This wpuld also mean your computer never shuts completely down and is powered all the time (if its suspend to ram)?
At work with a greater sample size its windows only ;) But I also had no problem inserting a Linux USB and booting it up for troubleshooting. But had to stop working since 2016, maybe sth. changed.
 

Brickwizard

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It is something that was first built into W10 to make it quicker to boot into windows, as it never fully closes down unless you disable it,
 
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Jim43

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Thank each of you for these replies and suggestions. Here is a quick list of what steps I have taken after reading these suggestions:

The DVD, and the USB stick, that I use each have Ubuntu 20.04.3 LTS and that is the distribution I wanted for my wife's laptop.

I inserted the DVD into the drive on the laptop and attempted to boot. Windows came up. Pressing any of the Function Keys did not help with boot selection.

Using the link, https://www.softwareok.com/?page=Windows/10/Quick-Tip/57, I did manage to find the Administrators settings. Using that feature (Administrator), I found a control setting that showed all files and applications that would run at startup or just after start. Then I carefully looked at each entry on that list of files/applications/programs and selected Properties. In that setting, for every file (or application or program) there is a new box or window that opens that has a few more options. One of those options is to set how or when that file would run: Automatic, Stop (or Start), Manual, and Deactivate. On several of those files (applications, programs) every area in the Properties list is 'greyed out' meaning that the user could not make any changes to that particular file.

After I went through the entire list and changed everything possible, I rebooted the laptop. On the first reboot, it attempted to start Windows. In a few minutes, I will make a second attempt and try to enter the Setup Menu via F12.

By the way, when a given Linux image file is burned to either a DVD or a USB, the resulting file will have an ISO extension (*.iso).
 

unprepar3D

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It is something that was first built into W10 to make it quicker to boot into windows, as it never fully closes down unless you disable it,
I know this feature since Windows 8. It shouldnt interfere with normal booting. If it does now, a restart should fix the error bc restarts are not affected. I still think its a problem with the installation media and/or not getting into the boot menu
 

unprepar3D

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Thank each of you for these replies and suggestions. Here is a quick list of what steps I have taken after reading these suggestions:

The DVD, and the USB stick, that I use each have Ubuntu 20.04.3 LTS and that is the distribution I wanted for my wife's laptop.

I inserted the DVD into the drive on the laptop and attempted to boot. Windows came up. Pressing any of the Function Keys did not help with boot selection.

Using the link, https://www.softwareok.com/?page=Windows/10/Quick-Tip/57, I did manage to find the Administrators settings. Using that feature (Administrator), I found a control setting that showed all files and applications that would run at startup or just after start. Then I carefully looked at each entry on that list of files/applications/programs and selected Properties. In that setting, for every file (or application or program) there is a new box or window that opens that has a few more options. One of those options is to set how or when that file would run: Automatic, Stop (or Start), Manual, and Deactivate. On several of those files (applications, programs) every area in the Properties list is 'greyed out' meaning that the user could not make any changes to that particular file.

After I went through the entire list and changed everything possible, I rebooted the laptop. On the first reboot, it attempted to start Windows. In a few minutes, I will make a second attempt and try to enter the Setup Menu via F12.

By the way, when a given Linux image file is burned to either a DVD or a USB, the resulting file will have an ISO extension (*.iso).
looks like you might be in the services.msc? If yes changing everithing probably wasn't a good idea.

If you didnt press any keys during startup and the bios is not configured to prioritize USB/DVD boot media nothing can happen. You have to open the Bios. del, f12, f11, f10 are the usual suspects. Inside the BIOS check the boot/startup options. Insert the install media and restart.


"By the way, when a given Linux image file is burned to either a DVD or a USB, the resulting file will have an ISO extension (*.iso)."
What do you mean? What file? My (working) ubuntu 21.10 install usb contains 2 files and 8 folders. If theres an iso file on the usb ord dvd the install media is not created correctly.
 
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Lord Boltar

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The DVD, and the USB stick, that I use each have Ubuntu 20.04.3 LTS and that is the distribution I wanted for my wife's laptop
Did you just copy and past the ISO to you USB stick? If so that will not work -
Also you did not mention if you went into the BIOS and turned off Secure Boot - See my post #5
although I believe Ubuntu will boot with this on since it is digitally signed by Microsoft - The only Linux OS I think that is signed by Microsoft
 

KGIII

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This is an HP. Either ESC or F9 should give them the temporary boot menu, where they can select their USB or other boot device for a one-time boot option, without changing the BIOS or anything like that.

As soon as the laptop starts booting, start spamming the ESC button. Hit it as rapidly as you can, over and over again, until something happens or you end up booted into your OS. If you end up booted into your OS, reboot and try it with F9.

Again, as soon as you turn the power on you should *immediately* spam the ever living snot out of the button. Press it over and over again rapidly. Put your finger over the button, turn the power on, pound the snot out of ESC and, if not that, F9.

As an HP, F10 should be BIOS, but that's a different subject in my mind. You want ESC or F9.

 
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Jim43

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KGIII,​

Thank you for the tip about F9 to get to a menu to do an OEM install of Linux. It is working.
My personal computers (desktop and new laptop) both are running Ubuntu 20.04.3 LTS without problem. Recently, my wife got fed up with Microsoft and their almost constant updates/upgrades to the operating system. Her computer, a HP laptop less than two years old, was (is) running Windows 10 but had started the automated process to upgrade to Windows 11. The upgrade program started asking for some password that she seldom used and would refuse to continue until (unless) the entered password correctly matched what was on file. Out of total frustration, she told me that I could put Linux on her laptop. That laptop has a CD/DVD drive, so I tried to install from a DVD that had been burned a month earlier. Three times I tried and three times the laptop refused to even see the ISO file on the DVD. Next, I tried a USB drive with the same distro and got the same results. Finally, I attempted to try a live, on-line download and install. Again, fail. It almost seems to me that Microsoft has embedded some code into the Windows 11 update that effectively blocks the instillation of any program that is not approved by Microsoft and that does not, before being installed, comply with all of the Microsoft requirements. My wife is not without a computer. I had already installed Linux on her previous laptop and it works just fine. She simply would like to be able to use her newer laptop. What I would like to see is an update to Linux that could bypass whatever blocking code Microsoft has in place.
Thank you for any comments. Even though it might be a few days between my visits to this site.
Jim43
This basically would be a continuation of the above question. About how long would, or should, it take to do a full install of Linux (either Ubuntu 20.04.3 LTS, or Ubuntu Budgie) on an HP laptop that has a 1 TB internal hard drive. I can see some progress on the laptop screen, but there is no indication of how much of the new OS has been installed (as a percent of total to be installed) or how much more time might be needed or required for the install to be completed?
Thank you,
Jim43
 

KGIII

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Well, 20 to 30 minutes from start to finish is what I'd expect on some older hardware. With an NVME, it can take just a few minutes - if you've done it enough times.

If your drive is the older spinning platter drives, it can take a bit to format all that. But, it shouldn't take all that long. You have Windows 11 on it, so I'd make sure that you don't have RST enabled in the BIOS (not the F9 key, the one that leads to actual BIOS settings).
 

Brickwizard

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About how long would, or should, it take to do a full install of Linux
depending on the machine spec, if its under 5 yrs old and choice of distribution i would say no less than 10 mis, no more than 20
 
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Jim43

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Well, from what everyone is saying the HP laptop is rapidly becoming a 'paperweight' until some new release of Linux Ubuntu comes out that can eliminate entirely all traces of the Windows operating system. Thanks to all that have offered help here. I will keep working on this.
 
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