easing into FOSS

gojisan

gojisan

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I'm considering moving to Linux from MS but am in no hurry. I understand the Unix/Linux kernel architecture model, the modular components that make up the OS and the concept and function of distros. I've found answers to most of my questions on how the things I'm interested in function in the Linux world. I became interested in Linux through positive FOSS experience with Firefox, LibreWolf/uBlock Origin and LibreOffice.

I've researched dozens of Linux related web sites and read lots of doc's, FAQ's and forums. I have two questions I haven't found answers to. Perhaps someone that has been in the MS world can point me to one of the forums here for help.
1. What does end of life for a distro version mean in the Linux world vs. the MS world?
2. How much functionality is there running live Linux on a USB pen drive to check out various software and driver support for my system and peripherals?

Any assistance is appreciated.
 


1. It means you upgrade to the next version, which is 99.999% painless these days. We're gotten good at it.

2. It's pretty complete. You can even install drivers in the live instance. It's a good way to verify things work.
 
Welcome to the forums.
gojisan said:
What does end of life for a distro version mean in the Linux world vs. the MS world?
Click to expand...
It means the same in both, it is the date a specific Linux distribution or MS build ceases to be updated [ but some builds will continue to receive security updates for a further period]

gojisan said:
How much functionality is there running live Linux on a USB pen drive to check out various software and driver support for my system and peripherals?
Click to expand...
When you run an ISO from a pen-drive in “Live” test mode. it is loaded to ram, it will give you a good chance to test a distribution and check all your components work, BUT it will never run at full speed. so you will not get at true full experience.
if you want the best of both worlds then I recommend you install your test Linux to a Pen-drive WITH PERSISTENCE
 
Thanks KGIII and Brickwizard.

I plan on jumping in feet first with Linux Mint 21.1 live on a USB pen drive. I'm looking for a stable OS that I have more control over. I started computing in 1988 by assembling a PC clone running MS-DOS 3.2. Back then you added 384k memory to your 640k base for 1024k maximum extended memory. You modified autoexec.bat and config.sys to config how your PC booted. Fast forward to 2023 and MS Win10. It's getting harder to "tell" MS I don't need help managing my PC and to deal with hardware requirements for the next OS version.

I have a background in electronics and data communications and learned and mostly forgot how to program and assemble assembly language code. Did product support for PC based WAN and LAN protocol analyzers dealing mostly with OSI layers 1 through 4 and am comfortable exploring any technology.

This forum is helpful AND friendly.
 
I wrote 21.1 in my previous post because I had already "Etchered" it but haven't booted to it and run it yet. A good example of how I'm easing into FOSS. It's timely that I'm finally exploring Linux because it's like looking forward to a Christmas present. The computer is a tool for me, not a hobby or a form of entertainment. But the FOSS world is bringing me back to my early days of computing that was full of exploration and fun.

It may take me a while to get rolling, but when I do I'll be posting meatier questions to other forum topics. In the meantime, best holiday wishes to members in both hemispheres.
 
gojisan said:
A good example of how I'm easing into FOSS.
Click to expand...

Come on in. the water's warm!

This forum has fewer FOSS zealots, for better or worse. There are some who are extremely opinionated about their software and are disgusted (or worse) by software that's not FOSS. Many of us use a blend of proprietary and FOSS. Point being, you don't have to dive into the deep end. You can hop in anywhere you want and move in any direction you fancy. It's free, as in liberty, so it's all good.
 
G'day @gojisan from DownUnder and welcome to linux.org :)

Etcher is good, I would place it at 99% or more for delivering a good result.

If, using the Live USB, your sound and graphics work, it detects your internet connection/s and so on, that should all translate to the installed product.

The Southern Hemisphere thanks you for your well wishes and the same back at you.

Cheers

Chris Turner
wizardfromoz
 
gojisan said:
how I'm easing into FOSS
Click to expand...
As you intimate, you will be on a learning curve, how steep you make it is up to you,
So... kick off your shoes, sit back, grab a beer, and enjoy the ride.
 
I'm not a zealot regarding software and find the world of FOSS refreshing. No agenda or axes to grind. I'm considering Linux for an OS to replace MS and get back more control of how I use a PC. Will be spending time away from my computer to be with family. Am looking forward to try and boot live after the holidays. I told you I was easing into this. BTW - Brickwizard's "grab a beer" advice told me I chose the right forum. Cheers.
 
gojisan said:
I plan on jumping in feet first with Linux Mint 21.1 live on a USB pen drive. I'm looking for a stable OS that I have more control over.
Click to expand...
Welcome to the forums.

You might find it hard to believe but it's difficult to give advice going along with this quotation, but you already know what to do. I salute you for it.

The thing about the Linux "world" is that there could be reactions about technological developments. For example, there is a lot of negative talk about "systemd". You will have to research it, because some people say it's a benefit over the old "SysV", or it's better than "runit", while many other people claim it is bad because it is developed by the big companies. There are some Linux distros without "systemd" such as MX Linux, Slackware and Void Linux. Linux Mint does have "systemd" because it's based on Ubuntu, which is based on Debian. The leaders of Debian "community" took the decision circa 2015 to adopt "systemd" which consternated many users. Therefore Devuan was created... they claim to be just like Debian but featuring other boot/startup routines other than "systemd".

A side-note about this is, if you would like to run Windows software on Linux, is that many things about Wine seem to depend on "systemd", especially on Arch Linux and on Debian. Therefore, experiences might be different on a distro derrived from either of those two and able to install it without trouble, such as I have seen with MX Linux "Wildflower". (This was the previous version based on Debian "Bullseye", now they're on one called "Libretto" which is based on the current stable Debian "Bookworm".) However, expect some missing functionality with it. On this distro I'm talking about, it wasn't serious. However I had more problems getting going on Devuan. I was able to do it once, the first time I attempted, but I don't know how I got it done. What a shame the Devuan "Chimaera" ISO's are widely available, while one has to beg for the equivalent Debian "Bullseye" and referring to the Wayback Machine is very slow if it works.

There are many other things such as RHEL's decision to close source code except to their willing paying clients. A more recent news out of them that Fedora 40 wants to "reorganize" whatever system directory is called "bin" or anything like it into one /usr/bin. Like Debian likely to stop offering ISO's for 32-bit operating system in their next version.

As I've said things have to be looked over, about why something causes sensation to somebody who uses Linux exclusively, or who uses it most of the time (like I do) but needs some Windows things beyond Wine's capability.
 
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Hello @gojisan,
Welcome to Linux.org forum.
Linux is much better these days , Most live usbs will give you a good idea of how things will run but you will not be able to save configurations from boot to boot. There is a way to do that if you have a big enough usb stick. But most live .iso are simply to give you a chance to try things out.
I often recommend this page for newer users it can help with the understanding of Linux.

Home | Linux Journey

linuxjourney.com linuxjourney.com
Click to expand...
Enjoy!
 
@gojisan :-

Welcome, welcome. Sounds as though you're no neophyte, so you should fit in well here... :p

Regarding your statement:-

The computer is a tool for me, not a hobby or a form of entertainment.
Click to expand...

Uh-huh. I assume this means you use it for work, yes?

I'm going to sound one note of caution. This is probably superfluous - you like as not are aware of this - but I'll still say it anyway.

IF you rely - and I DO mean absolutely "rely" - on certain proprietary software in the course of any gainful employment, do be aware that although WINE, PlayOnLinux, etc, etc, are available (and WINE compatibility is steadily improving, release by release), we still haven't yet reached the stage where there is a 100% guarantee that ANY given piece of Windows software will definitely work/run as it should.

We aren't quite there.........yet.

Again, you're probably aware that Linux almost certainly has an equivalent(s) for most things. In some cases, not as good; in many cases, better in terms of what it can do, though maybe requiring the user to learn a new way of doing things.

It's that "learning a new workflow" which frequently proves to be TOO much of a hurdle for many. What I'm saying, I guess, is that you may still end up needing to run multiple platforms to be able to do everything you want. If you're okay with that, that's fine. A lot of people try Linux out, decide it's not for them, and scurry back to the 'safe', comfortable familiarity of the Redmond beast.

That, too, is fine.......and is all part & parcel of the FOSS experience. Nobody's 'forcing' anyone into doing anything. The ultimate choice, or decision, always rests with the user themselves. (There is of course the ultimate 'option' of running a VM, then installing Windows inside that). Yet another possibility...

Nice to have you onboard!


Mike. ;)
 
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Welcome to the Forum.
m0135.gif


Linux Mint Cinnamon is easy to use and very safe unlike windoze.

Mint Cinnamon 21.1 is supported till 2027...plenty of time and no need to move to 21.2. When it's up I'll do a clean install on a spare SSD and copy all my files across...then clone to main SSD.

With the live session you can do many things that you can't in windoze...have a look in the Mint Forum...I have some there...windoze users have no clue of the versatility of Linux.
https://roughlydraftedbeta.com/exploring-the-power-of-linux-a-versatile-operating-system/

The best thing about Linux is the freedom to do whatever you like on your own computer.
m1212.gif
 
Brickwizard said:
if you want the best of both worlds then I recommend you install your test Linux to a Pen-drive WITH PERSISTENCE
Click to expand...
First things first. I may not have "Etchered" my USB drive properly for Mint 21.1 period, as I can't boot with BIOS boot set to USB before HD. It's a spare unused SanDisk 128 GB drive that was recognized as enpty by MS OS before burning. Now Win10 recognizes it with an unsupported file system so there's something there, but power on boot loads Win OS. I can easily have created a PICNIC (problem in chair not in computer) so I'll revisit burning the drive and try again. I learned about PERSISTENCE in my original research. Once I get past being able to boot live at all, I'll look into it more.

wizardfromoz said:
If, using the Live USB, your sound and graphics work, it detects your internet connection/s and so on, that should all translate to the installed product.
Click to expand...
This is goal #1.

wendy-lebaron said:
Welcome to the forums.
Click to expand...
The information you provided will be good stuff after reaching goal #1.

kc1di said:
I often recommend this page for newer users it can help with the understanding of Linux.
Click to expand...
This is a site I didn't come across yet and I will explore it. Thanks.

MikeWalsh said:
Uh-huh. I assume this means you use it for work, yes?
Click to expand...
I'm glad you asked. I don't use a computer for work because hallaleula I'm retired. But I'm not a gamer and don't stream entertainment content. Just use it for household business, e-mail and information gathering. Pretty boring stuff, like a hammer. However, your comments on proprietary software and a hybrid approach are spot on if I do move to Linux.

bob466 said:
Linux Mint Cinnamon is easy to use and very safe unlike windoze.
Click to expand...
The thing that drew me to looking into Linux was the archectictural security of the Unix/Linux kernel vs. MS. It explained a lot about why security products I've been using lack Linux options. I agree with other posters on this forum that security starts with the user. But it helps to have an OS that reqires less hardening from the get go.


Thanks to all for your time and input. My long game is to see what tradeoffs, improvements, and new ways of doing things Linux offers. Maybe I'll change tool brands.

But first, back to solving my "live" boot problem.
 
gojisan said:
but power on boot loads Win OS.
Click to expand...
Why Linux fails to load/install direct to HDD, common reasons
1] Corrupt download [check SHA sum]
2] bad burn to installation medium [try again] [if you used Rufus then try Balina-etcher]
3] Wind 8.2 and higher quick start/fast boot or secure boot not disabled [doesn't normally apply to older versions]
4] defective pen-drive/dvd
5] hardware fault,
5A] If old style HDD run integrity check
5B]if SATA SSD check for hidden partition at the beginning of drive [this will stop Grub from loading] and delete it before re-installing Linux
If M2.NVMe check, your system is NVMe compatible [not all older kit is]

note No 3
 
Brickwizard said:
Why Linux fails to load/install direct to HDD, common reasons
1] Corrupt download [check SHA sum]
2] bad burn to installation medium [try again] [if you used Rufus then try Balina-etcher]
3] Wind 8.2 and higher quick start/fast boot or secure boot not disabled [doesn't normally apply to older versions]
4] defective pen-drive/dvd
5] hardware fault,
5A] If old style HDD run integrity check
5B]if SATA SSD check for hidden partition at the beginning of drive [this will stop Grub from loading] and delete it before re-installing Linux
If M2.NVMe check, your system is NVMe compatible [not all older kit is]
Click to expand...
It's my USB pen drive that fails to boot to Mint 21.2. I used balenaEtcher first and the drive was burned but never recognized. I burned it using Rufus and the drive is recognized as a device with an active partition. My BIOS boot order is set for USB before HDD for both Legacy and UEFI. Both Fast and Secure boot are disabled. My computer should boot from the USB drive automatically at power up but doesn't. There is other stuff going on with what I see in my BIOS settings that makes me think I probably have a good image burn but something else going on with BIOS.

I think I'm past new Member Introductions at this point. I'm going to do more troubleshooting and will find a more appropriate forum to post about this if I don't find a resolution.

Thanks for your help and Happy New Year!
 
@gojisan, I think you're throwing in the towel far too early.

Hopefully more input in another section of the forums
gojisan said:
This forum is helpful AND friendly.
Click to expand...
That is correct.
 
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gojisan said:
My BIOS boot order is set for USB before HDD for both Legacy and UEFI. Both Fast and Secure boot are disabled. My computer should boot from the USB drive automatically at power up but doesn't.
Click to expand...
Your computer might need help from you. As soon as you turn on the computer and notice the screen coming on, press ESC escape key. This key might be different according to your computer's make and model. You will have to consult the user's manual for it.

Then it should display a menu, or at least a screen for "BIOS", where you could select an EFI file to boot from. On my ageing HP laptop, I get a menu which has one "debian" entry and two "Ubuntu" entries coming from internal disk. If I start from pluggable disk then it should have the name of the make of that disk (Kingston, Sandisk etc). That is the one to choose.

Otherwise the "BIOS" should present a screen to conduct you to the other screen I just described. On one of my computers once I had to go even further, ask it to create an entry to boot with in the next time, by looking for the EFI file but it refused to proceed to boot right then and there.

BTW bob466 already said what I did...
 
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