Big Picture Views?? - Linux/Browsers/Search/Engines/Apps/Sourcing of PCs/Where is Personal Computing Headed??

[Vaj2]

The heading isn't very clear or focused and I'm probably not explaining this very well.

The post is a bit of a whinge - prompted by a growing sense that cloud computing has been a Trojan horse (one that ended privacy/put control of personal computers and their contents in the hands of the big guys) and that with AI and ever more manipulative behaviours on the part of the suppliers of the wherewithals for a personal computing set up (with Linux seemingly an exception) that it's becoming almost impossible to find a way through the maze.

That it's become incredibly difficult to configure a system that just works properly without ongoing hassle, being subject to external manipulation and without exposure to security, privacy, financial and a variety of other risks.

Having been strong armed once too often by Microsoft I made the decision in principle to end my use of Windows and an Office 365 account and go to Linux last year. Following a few recent hardware failures on a fairly old Win 10 laptop I started work on making it happen on a new desktop PC only in the past month or so. I for similar reasons want to move to a Google/Android free phone but haven't really got started on this.

It hasn't been going very well. I'm left with many questions including the following:

1. Where in heaven does a person go to buy hassle free and at reasonable price a reliable upper mid range Ubuntu Cinnamon compatible desktop in the UK or Europe these days? (many hours of work over two weeks in an attempt to research, resolve technical questions relating to, specify and buy a Lenovo desktop were recently wasted - my experience has been that their sales support is abysmal)
2. Does there exist a way to access a search engine that actually responds to the entered serch terms - instead of throwing up a repeating page of the highest bidders?
3. Does there exist a browser that is reliable, secure and that works across all commercial websites that is not going to harvest my data, not bury me in attempts to force use of AI and other functions and/or services that I don't want?
4. Does there exist a phone option which without requiring a Google account/Android and burying the user in more unwanted stuff will as well as making calls and browsing the web also take pics, run basic apps and where necessary (e.g. email, pics etc) synchronise these with the PC?
5. Linux Ubuntu Cinnamon (and other distros) seem to provide an integrity driven means to avoid many of the further problems which arise in running Windows and other Microsoft apps which is great. Are they however going to be find themselves as a consequence of incompatabilities and more to the point intentional blocking by many websites and apps squeezed into a smaller and smaller corner - one where for example larger commercial and other websites running enterprise systems which already override default browser apps and the like will simply become inaccessible or subject to more and more compatibility issues?

It'd be great to hear from those wiuth an informed big picture view on these and related matters - does personal computing actually have a future??

 

[osprey]

@Vaj2 , the following observations came to mind after reading your post. Some responses to the numbered items follow.

1. There are a number of sellers who specialise in linux computers in the UK and Europe who advertise online. That makes the issue rather problem-free from the linux side. If it's a matter of cost, then basically, linux is installable on most common hardware these days.

2. Search engines can be used in ways that increase precision to the exclusion of interfering variables. One means of precision is to tell the search engine to search particular sites with certain keywords. For example, searching with the entry: "site:linux.org minios" into duckduckgo and into google was quite revealing:

duckduckgo results showed no relevant results:

google showed three relevant results:

The point is that search engines can respond to entered search terms which are more targeted, but the issue is not only about such targeting, it's also about the search engine's capability. There are now many search engines to investigate.

There are numerous ways in which to make searches more precise, for example:

site:wikipedia.com +ancient +egypt (searches pages on wikipedia with both terms)
"(vanilla OR chocolate) cake" (search either vanilla or chocolate cake)
racing bicycles -carbon (search racing bikes excluding the term carbon)

3. There are browsers that specialise in privacy and security like: mullvad, librewolf, but standard browsers of all sorts like firefox and chrome based browsers can all be hardened by amending their configurations. There's testing sites online to measure degrees of privacy and/or security like: https://coveryourtracks.eff.org/, and comparison sites like: https://privacytests.org/.

4. On phones I can't say.

5. Linux incompatiblities with websites and agencies is decreasing, not the other way around. Mostly access to sites is through a browser, and although sometimes an agency or site will not accept a linux browser, there are ways to manage this with user-agent masking, using alternative browsers, or redirecting through a third party facility like a vpn.

I realise, as you mention, "this post is a bit of a whinge", but the point being made here is that there are remedies, solutions, approaches, manipulations etc. that linux is capable of to a fairly high degree which other operating systems lack or fail at. Ultimately it's a matter of learning and coming to know how to achieve one's aims. Underestimating linux is not a useful way to go .

 

[KGIII]

That it's become incredibly difficult to configure a system that just works properly without ongoing hassle, being subject to external manipulation and without exposure to security, privacy, financial and a variety of other risks.

I'll touch on some of this, but this is my last session:

reboot system boot 6.8.0-71-generic Sat Aug 9 22:07 - 08:36 (70+10:29)

That indicates that I didn't reboot for 70 days. It just works.

Where in heaven does a person go to buy hassle free and at reasonable price a reliable upper mid range Ubuntu Cinnamon compatible desktop in the UK or Europe these days?

Just get a bog-standard computer. You'll have a harder time finding a computer that doesn't work with Linux than you'll have finding one that doesn't work. If this doesn't match your experiences, you can come ask for help. But Linux just works. It especially just works if you're not using the latest and greatest -- but even then it should work.

Does there exist a way to access a search engine that actually responds to the entered serch terms - instead of throwing up a repeating page of the highest bidders?

This depends on your search engine choices. For example:

DuckDuckGo - Protection. Privacy. Peace of mind.

The Internet privacy company that empowers you to seamlessly take control of your personal information online, without any tradeoffs.

duckduckgo.com

Does there exist a browser that is reliable, secure and that works across all commercial websites that is not going to harvest my data, not bury me in attempts to force use of AI and other functions and/or services that I don't want?

I've yet to find a site that Firefox doesn't render well enough. There are also Firefox derivatives, should you wish to go that route. There's also Chromium. Then, there are a host of Chromium derivatives, each with its own privacy policy.

Does there exist a phone option which without requiring a Google account/Android and burying the user in more unwanted stuff will as well as making calls and browsing the web also take pics, run basic apps and where necessary (e.g. email, pics etc) synchronise these with the PC?

Realistically? No... There are Linux phones. I've yet to meet anyone, online or in real life, who was happy with their Linux-powered phone over the long-term. Those I have met that weren't too annoyed with them just stuck to them out of principle.

1. Are they however going to be find themselves as a consequence of incompatabilities and more to the point intentional blocking by many websites and apps squeezed into a smaller and smaller corner - one where for example larger commercial and other websites running enterprise systems which already override default browser apps and the like will simply become inaccessible or subject to more and more compatibility issues?

That doesn't really make any sense when I compare it with my experiences.

Some site owners have fairly complicated stuff hosted and willfully choose not to support Linux. But, your regular sites are not even slightly concerned that you are using Linux. But, sites like Peacock will not work with Linux. This is because they use DRM. Their choice of DRM doesn't work on Linux.

What functionality are you missing with this one?

 

[Condobloke]

does personal computing actually have a future??

yes, without a doubt

Ultimately it's a matter of learning and coming to know how to achieve one's aims. Underestimating linux is not a useful way to go .

Amen.

 

[Vaj2]

Thank you all. I'm probably not at my most optimistic after the above mentioned two weeks of hassle while trying to buy a PC from Lenovo. So many problems...

I'm no expert but am fairly well up to speed by now on the hardware preferences of both Mint and Ubuntu. I in asking about suppliers was driving more at the matter of how a person might get to a PC supplier fronted by capable and decent persons that are (as is so often the case in call centres) not scared silly of being fired if they say the wrong thing.

There's also the matter of product quality and support. A larger player is presumably better placed than a local small outfit in these regards, but the bigger guys all seem to be running what amount to rule bound call centres.

Linux seems to be a haven of integrity and common sense in a world where the mainstream players more and more seem to be abusing their positions by engaging in strong arming and other shall we say less than customer oriented practices.

I raised the point about the possibility of Linux users finding that it had been backed into a corner having read a post somewhere (which may or may not have been accurate or representative) about some public service and other websites not functioning for Linux users.

It with the chicanery already going on prompted the thought that the big players could probably without too much trouble act by various means to block the use of browsers, operating systems and the like that they don't have control over.

There's potentially two risk scenarios I suppose - that Linux etc become so much a minority affair that they simply are not supported - or they start to grow and become a threat.

It'd be nice to think that there were checks and balances in place that might block such possibilities - but governments seem often be heading down that road themselves. There's meanwhile so much going on now that's not being called out in the specialist or other media that years ago would have resulted in a tsunami of negative publicity that would have forced reversals...

 

[Smilax]

I've yet to meet anyone, online or in real life, who was happy with their Linux-powered phone over the long-term. Those I have met that weren't too annoyed with them just stuck to them out of principle.

I'm happy with my Nokia 2780 flip running KaiOS 3.1. The only reason it works for me is that I'm retired. My previous two jobs were both Gsuite shops and I absolutely had to stay connected 24/7. It would be virtually impossible to use this phone exclusively and not get fired, or lose customers if self employed. You're simply incompatible, just like trying to live without a Windows desktop 20 years ago. Having said that, this phone will run Gmail and Gmaps, they even come preinstalled. But I don't want that

I've had a Google account of some sort since 2004. I've spent nearly three years so far trying to be completely rid of them and I'm beginning to think it's not possible. I've punched the World's Biggest Tarbaby. Somehow they've managed to get one of my Proton aliases (almost certainly because of something I did, thankfully not my main account) and are now sending messages there warning about a pending account termination that I requested be deleted in June 2023. They notified my wife at her personal Gmail account, probably because I signed up for that years ago. But, they're telling her that my Proton account is going to be deleted, not a Gmail account. I'd say "good luck with that" but times are funny.

Sorry for the wall o' text. I don't think an Apple/Google free phone is a possibility in the current environment if you have to work for a living, and I don't see much point in a Linux phone if you're going to load it with spyware by design.

Fun fact I almost never get to share anymore: I used to administer a Blackberry farm for about 30 users back when those were all the rage and iPhones were new. They were really cool when everything was working well.

edit: I had to go back and look it up. It was BES 4.1 running on a Novell GroupWise server.

 

[Condobloke]

The post is a bit of a whinge

You got that right.

It'd be nice to think that there were checks and balances in place that might block such possibilities

It's called freedom of choice....It will take the win every time

There's potentially two risk scenarios I suppose - that Linux etc become so much a minority affair that they simply are not supported - or they start to grow and become a threat.

Linux has grown.
In this article : https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/ne...pdates-break-linux-boot-in-dual-boot-systems/
....and stated "The company is investigating the issue with its Linux partners and will provide an update when more details are available."
The only 'threat' to Linux, is msoft.
M'soft also uses Linux.
Linux is present on the world's biggest servers
https://gitnux.org/server-statistics/

Why the World’s Largest Corporations Rely on Linux — And What That Means for the Future

When we think of tech giants like Google, Amazon, Meta, Netflix, or even NASA and Tesla, we picture cutting-edge innovation, massive data centers, and world-changing products. But there’s a quiet powerhouse behind all of them: Linux.

www.linkedin.com

Home

Hey there! We’re Digital One Agency A web and app agency based in Australia We build apps, websites, brands, and SEO strategies that deliver res

digitaloneagency.com.au

And the personal computing market, will continue to grow right alongside it



Perhaps you have read, and paid attention to, far too much of the negative leaning threads on the web.


Instead of searching for the 'bees knees' of PC's that will run Linux, try a search for a model of PC that WILL NOT run Linux. Apart from a few bleeding edge PC's (which are obviously new) you will likely have a hard time finding one.

Some of the very newest models, will have a problem with some drivers....simply because they have not been "sorted out' by the Linux devs....yet.

I raised the point about the possibility of Linux users finding that it had been backed into a corner having read a post somewhere (which may or may not have been accurate or representative) about some public service and other websites not functioning for Linux users.

I am older than you and spend upwards of seventy percent of my awake hours on the 'net, and have never experienced this....and likely never will.

It with the chicanery already going on prompted the thought that the big players could probably without too much trouble act by various means to block the use of browsers, operating systems and the like that they don't have control over.

Who, pray tell, are the 'big players'.....or more to the point, which 'players' would be so stupid as to risk the ire of the entire internet going public, by 'blocking' browsers or OS's?? That thought belongs in a fantasy film.

Welcome to Linux.org . The home of Positivity.

 

[KGIII]

The only reason it works for me is that I'm retired.

Yeah, it works for a few people. Well, enough people to keep several projects going. I was mostly referencing commercial options for smartphones, so I probably could have used more clear language. But, yeah, there are enough people who likie it to keep it going.

I just haven't really met any.

There's stuff like Purism and PinePhone. To the best of my knowledge, and I wear some geeky t-shirts that invite conversation, I've yet to meet a user in the wild. As far as I know, those can actually be used here in the US. I think they didn't have broad support at first, but they're now usable on the major carriers.

 

[Trml]

I don't think an Apple/Google free phone is a possibility in the current environment if you have to work for a living

I agree, even if your workplace does not necessarily require an IT device, you are already hard pressed in a corner to make daily arrangements without a link to big tech accounts. Be it the kindergarden/school of your kids announcing short-time itinerary changes preferably via Whatsup/FB, local transport requiring G/ApplePay (try to buy a bus ticket in London with coins), or your public service provider axing digital access via any other digital means than their big tech app stores offerings.

Suffice to say, a big share of users demand all-comprehensive digital access to public services, triggering focused app developments by public institutions, which likely use up their IT budgets to tie themselves and (more importantly) their citizens to app stores.

The work environment acts very flexible. After all, bring-your-own-device policies save them a lot of cost (while they likely contributed to the demise of Blackberry's offerings as a preferred professional alternative). Public services are frequently the polar-opposite to flexibility, and most importantly a citizen/consumer can't vote with their wallet/feet on them. I'm rather pessimistic about this development pacing up for the rest of the decade.

 

[Brickwizard]

does a person go to buy hassle free and at reasonable price a reliable upper mid range Ubuntu Cinnamon compatible desktop in the UK or Europe these days?

Buy a Referb dell desktop and install Linux, go to Dell UK and buy a New one with Ubuntu pre installed, go to Tux computers [Germany] buy a new machine specifically built to run Tuxedo Linux, or look for one of the many independents that will supply and install Linux for you, at the end of the day it would be cheaper to DIY

Does there exist a way to access a search engine that actually responds to the entered serch terms

@osprey has already mentioned using quote marks but you must be accurate and specific in your question, on letter wrong or one word out of place and it will not return answers.

Does there exist a browser that is reliable, secure and that works across all commercial websites that is not going to harvest my data,

They all will collect some data, most will give you security options and add on's to lock them down but in doing so many websites will not work

Are they however going to be find themselves as a consequence of incompatabilities and more to the point intentional blocking by many websites and apps squeezed into a smaller and smaller corner - one where for example larger commercial and other websites running enterprise systems which already override default browser apps and the like will simply become inaccessible or subject to more and more compatibility issues?

All the time there are script kiddies who do not like corporate lockdowns there will always be work rounds and compatibility apps being produced, to help in the fightback, for security you could also try using Anonsurf developed by Parrot security it is ported to run on Kali and other security distributions and will work on most Debian based distros

 

[marsh_1]

Thank you all. I'm probably not at my most optimistic after the above mentioned two weeks of hassle while trying to buy a PC from Lenovo. So many problems...

I'm no expert but am fairly well up to speed by now on the hardware preferences of both Mint and Ubuntu. I in asking about suppliers was driving more at the matter of how a person might get to a PC supplier fronted by capable and decent persons that are (as is so often the case in call centres) not scared silly of being fired if they say the wrong thing.

There's also the matter of product quality and support. A larger player is presumably better placed than a local small outfit in these regards, but the bigger guys all seem to be running what amount to rule bound call centres.

Linux seems to be a haven of integrity and common sense in a world where the mainstream players more and more seem to be abusing their positions by engaging in strong arming and other shall we say less than customer oriented practices.

I raised the point about the possibility of Linux users finding that it had been backed into a corner having read a post somewhere (which may or may not have been accurate or representative) about some public service and other websites not functioning for Linux users.

It with the chicanery already going on prompted the thought that the big players could probably without too much trouble act by various means to block the use of browsers, operating systems and the like that they don't have control over.

There's potentially two risk scenarios I suppose - that Linux etc become so much a minority affair that they simply are not supported - or they start to grow and become a threat.

It'd be nice to think that there were checks and balances in place that might block such possibilities - but governments seem often be heading down that road themselves. There's meanwhile so much going on now that's not being called out in the specialist or other media that years ago would have resulted in a tsunami of negative publicity that would have forced reversals...

I belive open-source systems will ultimately win in the long run, especially with the rise of AI requiring maximum optimization and openness for experimentation

 

[Smilax]

could have used more clear language

No, you were clear, I just felt like having a very public crying jag. Scott Adams says in order to be happier, stop being embarrassed. So if I turn into a cartoon character you'll know why.

PinePhone

Like many I've been watching this one for a while, years it seems? There are also some de-Googled Android phones available, but those don't really interest me. You still have to communicate with Google users. So while having Linux as the base OS might eliminate some tracking, you're still in the same boat using the same networks. Or maybe the refugee boat.

A true Linux phone with a working touchscreen on the Starlink network using Telegram. That would be a good time, all the time. (I swear I quit drinking but the visions won't go away.)

 

[Vaj2]

Dead pleased to hear that most are optimistic regarding the future for Linux. I hope it's an accurate view - and that the big players as a consequence of overplaying their hands will lose ground.

Ethics don't get much of a look in it seems - at least not overtly. With a bit of luck as lot more will just get fed up with being manipulated - and that as pointed out that Linux etc has enough of a foothold that it will in the meantime survive/represents a vocal enough minority that it won't simply be squashed.

I've concluded that risk or not it's important to head off down the Linux road. Not because as a retired for quite a few years very ordinary punter I have anything to hide - just that it's important to support the alternative.

Thank you too for the inputs on phones. I've not been able to find a solid seeming alternative so far either - there are de-Googled phones on offer but it's difficult to judge how reliable they might be.

By the 'big players' CB I mean Microsoft and Google that we see - with potentially other powerful players in the background.

I've posted about it elsewhere on the forum, but I react very badly to having systems run by these companies interfere in what I consider my personal computing space. I mean from experience stuff like the default browser selection being over ridden to open Edge on many commercial websites, finding that I can't uninstall Edge without screwing up the OS, seeing harvested financial and log-in information provided for specific other purposes pop up in unsolicited windows in an attempt to drive use of 'services' the person doesn't want or need, having pop up windows open over third party commercial websites to offer a supposedly better deal elsewhere, finding that it's difficult to go on the web or to even open an Office document or browser without being swamped by AI offering 'help', the non stop flow of ill conceived/supposed aids/improvements which only make it ever more difficult to access the basic functionality of the device, seeing specialist interest websites (woodworking and the like) disappear because they can't get up the search engine lists. It goes on....

'It's called freedom of choice....It will take the win every time' I understand what you're getting at CB, but I'd call it the opposite. It's rule by the diktat of those that have achieved a close to monopoly control of the web and the IT infrastructure - in absence of better than token action by those responsible for upholding the public interest.

I've managed to avoid having a Google account, but only at the expense by now of seeing a decent mid range Android smart phone bought a couple of years ago reduced to calls, texts and web browsing only. I was shocked at the degree to which Android had been Googleised since its predecessor.

Thank you for the PC sourcing options BW. I found Tuxedo and the like on a list but much as you suggest am inclined more towards buying an open market PC and handling the Linux install myself. I'd forgotten about Dell as an option - will take a look.

 

[Brickwizard]

I'd forgotten about Dell as an option - will take a look.

My manufacturer of choice for easy installation of Linux. plus unless you are gaming a good 3-4 year old top of the range referb one should last years

 

[MikeWalsh]

@KGIII :-

Some site owners have fairly complicated stuff hosted and willfully choose not to support Linux. But, your regular sites are not even slightly concerned that you are using Linux. But, sites like Peacock will not work with Linux. This is because they use DRM. Their choice of DRM doesn't work on Linux.

Hm. Y'know, I'd be dead curious to know just what type of DRM Peacock ARE using. Use of Google's Widevine has become pretty much universal across the 'net. And even M$ haven't bothered with Silverlight for long enough.....especially given that they themselves have moved to a Chromium-based 'primary' browser for Windows.

Later:- 'Kay. According to a few blogs I've looked at, Peacock supports both Widevine AND something called FairPlay (which further research indicates is Apple's version of DRM. That's something new I've learnt today).

Other reports suggest that it's the mere fact of trying to watch in a browser that is in fact the issue. Peacock supports a ton of devices.....but NOT desktop browsers. Huh.


Mike.

 

[Vaj2]

Thanks again BW - message received.

The plan is to buy a new upper mid range Linux compatible PC - IF I can find a decent and budget feasible deal from a good maker. The cost isn't that significant if amortised over a long period. My current originally high spec 10 year old laptop would happily run Linux but it's starting to suffer keyboard and other failures.

Regarding the big picture - it's easy to get lost in the technicalities/to assume continued long term availability of what we already have.

One view is that we're witnessing nothing less than a creeping attempt by the technocracy and likely those behind it to achieve total control of the web and the IT infrastructure - as a prelude to achieving IT enabled almost absolute control over our access to independently reported information, our finances and the finest details of our once private lives...

 

[BryantC]

The heading isn't very clear or focused and I'm probably not explaining this very well.

The post is a bit of a whinge - prompted by a growing sense that cloud computing has been a Trojan horse (one that ended privacy/put control of personal computers and their contents in the hands of the big guys) and that with AI and ever more manipulative behaviours on the part of the suppliers of the wherewithals for a personal computing set up (with Linux seemingly an exception) that it's becoming almost impossible to find a way through the maze.

That it's become incredibly difficult to configure a system that just works properly without ongoing hassle, being subject to external manipulation and without exposure to security, privacy, financial and a variety of other risks.

Having been strong armed once too often by Microsoft I made the decision in principle to end my use of Windows and an Office 365 account and go to Linux last year. Following a few recent hardware failures on a fairly old Win 10 laptop I started work on making it happen on a new desktop PC only in the past month or so. I for similar reasons want to move to a Google/Android free phone but haven't really got started on this.

It hasn't been going very well. I'm left with many questions including the following:

1. Where in heaven does a person go to buy hassle free and at reasonable price a reliable upper mid range Ubuntu Cinnamon compatible desktop in the UK or Europe these days? (many hours of work over two weeks in an attempt to research, resolve technical questions relating to, specify and buy a Lenovo desktop were recently wasted - my experience has been that their sales support is abysmal)
2. Does there exist a way to access a search engine that actually responds to the entered serch terms - instead of throwing up a repeating page of the highest bidders?
3. Does there exist a browser that is reliable, secure and that works across all commercial websites that is not going to harvest my data, not bury me in attempts to force use of AI and other functions and/or services that I don't want?
4. Does there exist a phone option which without requiring a Google account/Android and burying the user in more unwanted stuff will as well as making calls and browsing the web also take pics, run basic apps and where necessary (e.g. email, pics etc) synchronise these with the PC?
5. Linux Ubuntu Cinnamon (and other distros) seem to provide an integrity driven means to avoid many of the further problems which arise in running Windows and other Microsoft apps which is great. Are they however going to be find themselves as a consequence of incompatabilities and more to the point intentional blocking by many websites and apps squeezed into a smaller and smaller corner - one where for example larger commercial and other websites running enterprise systems which already override default browser apps and the like will simply become inaccessible or subject to more and more compatibility issues?

It'd be great to hear from those wiuth an informed big picture view on these and related matters - does personal computing actually have a future??

I’ve also made the switch to Linux and really like Ubuntu Cinnamon – it’s pretty stable and most hardware works out of the box. For a browser, I’d recommend Firefox or LibreWolf since they’re more privacy-focused. For searching, DuckDuckGo or Startpage work well without tracking your data. If you want a phone without Google/Android, you could try /e/OS or LineageOS – you can make calls, take photos, and sync files without relying on Google.

Not every website will work perfectly, but for everyday use Linux handles things well and gives you way more control over your privacy.

 

[MikeWalsh]

@Vaj2 :-

I am, I guess, something of a "junior".....compared to some of our members. "Only" been using Linux exclusively for around 11½ years!

Y'know, in all that time I've never once come across a single web-site or online service that I couldn't access. Never yet been refused access to anything because I was running Linux. And in recent years, it's just gotten better......because NOW there's a whole load of additional websites that are offering online versions of their services.

A browser is OS-agnostic (with the exception of what the user-agent reports, though most folks are more concerned with how up-to-date your browser is). Platform, it seems, is largely irrelevant. It's a far cry from the days when most websites were "optimized" for Internet Exploder.....and if you weren't running Windows with an up-to-date IE, you could forget it.

You'll notice, too, that many desktop Linux 'clients' these days are identical in appearance and operation to the online version. You can thank Electron for that, because what you now run on the desktop is often a transplanted "webapp".....powered by a minimal, stripped-back Chromium browser running only the essential components needed for online connection and interaction with that one website.

I've run Chrome/Chromium & many of the 'clones' (like Opera, Vivaldi, Brave, Slimjet, etc) since Chrome/Chromium first appeared in 2007. And the thing I like best about them IS the ability to turn ANY website INTO a desktop "webapp".....along with the ability to add Menu entries, etc, which lets you fire them up by themselves. Just like you would with a purpose-built desktop app/client.

I don't think you need worry about the future of Linux. As Brian ("Condobloke") says above, Linux has had the server market sewn up for years. The web runs on Linux, as do every single one of the Top500 supercomputers in the world. And Linux adoption is slowly yet steadily growing, largely due to M$ continually shooting themselves in the foot with so many of their daft decisions.

Nah, the future - for Linux - is looking quite "rosy".


Mike.

 

[KGIII]

A true Linux phone with a working touchscreen on the Starlink network using Telegram.

If you cross the border with that, you'll be accused of being a spy, a drug dealer, or a terrorist. They're going to take you into a back room, where they'll pummel you with a rubber hose until you admit your wrongdoing. Then, you'll have a sham trial, based on that confession. If you're unlucky, you'll get 20 years of hard labor. The lucky ones will get taken out behind the courthouse and shot.

Also, you'll still have an IMEI. That means they can at least track your location. If they have enough antennas in the area, they can track you quite accurately. At least your communications will be encrypted!

 

[osprey]

@Vaj2 :-

I am, I guess, something of a "junior".....compared to some of our members. "Only" been using Linux exclusively for around 11½ years!

Y'know, in all that time I've never once come across a single web-site or online service that I couldn't access. Never yet been refused access to anything because I was running Linux. And in recent years, it's just gotten better......because NOW there's a whole load of additional websites that are offering online versions of their services.

A browser is OS-agnostic (with the exception of what the user-agent reports, though most folks are more concerned with how up-to-date your browser is). Platform, it seems, is largely irrelevant. It's a far cry from the days when most websites were "optimized" for Internet Exploder.....and if you weren't running Windows with an up-to-date IE, you could forget it.

Mike.

There is some history here of problems with linux and websites, well in the past now, but I do recall some experiences.

When the government first introduced electronic lodging of tax returns, linux browsers weren't able to use it, nor apple either for a time. Some info here: https://www.itnews.com.au/news/ato-to-kill-off-e-tax-401902. I guess it was no loss to the government because there were relatively few linux users and paper lodgements were sufficient in any case. The issue was eventually attended to so in recent years, access has been fine.

Another instance of linux browsers being restricted was in the early days of the ebay shopping site. There's quite a few stories online, but in my own experience, some functions simply weren't available when trying to access them by clicking on the relevant icons. It's no longer the case but the improvement in firefox and firefox derived browsers may also be involved in that.

A relatively recent example here of linux browsers failing was during the pandemic a few years ago. A permit system was set up to control the movement of people between states so that one needed to apply online for a permit to enter another state. Living near the border of two states and having family just over the border, I needed to apply for a permit regularly to travel to see family, but my linux browsers would not let the process of application complete itself on the newly set up website. The permit system lasted for a little over a year IIRC. On inquiry by email to the relevant authority, they weren't able to explain the problem, but simply gave me a number which I needed to quote to the sentries at the border, so there was no inconvenience ultimately. I suspect that the hurry in which such a permit system was set up may have been implicated in the issue, but I can't say.

Other than the above, there is great deal of research that happens here online, some quite technical and vocational, and some more recreational by a number of people, and apart from the state permit issue described above, no restrictions have been apparent in recent years. The trend has really been all in one direction towards full access.