A question for newbies and experienced users about Linux support

[f33dm3bits]

I have been following the LTT Linux challenge, there Linus mentions that the command-line scares new to Linux users away and that everything should be possible to do with a GUI. I can agree that everything should be possible with a GUI, however I don't agree that a command-line should scare new users away when something is not possible or easily possible through a GUI. Whenever I try and help someone here I most of the time ask the person requesting help to run a few commands in the terminal and based on the output help them further and to continue from there.

Personally I find it easier (for most problems, not all problems)to get the information I need by telling the person what to type in the terminal so they can literally copy/paste it and report back. To get the same information would take a lot longer and longer to explain how to click through a GUI menu of settings which is also harder to do except then for screenshots which would also take a long time.

Now my question for new to Linux users here and those that help new to Linux users with questions/problems. How do you experience the terminal when someone asks you to run something in the terminal when requesting help with a problem and what could we do better to help you learn from the problems you run into? For those answering those questions do you prefer to to help someone by explaining them what to run in the terminal or writing instructions(or making screenshots) of how to click through a GUI and why?

P.S On my Windows 10 vm I use chocolatey to install packages from the command-line so I can more easily install them and update them all at the same time instead of having to download separate exe or msi files to update all of the software I have installed on my vm.

 

[Terminal Velocity]

I have no problem receiving help for the terminal as long as it works. With a good GUI there is a chance not to ask in the forums and figure it out myself, that's a good GUI. For the terminal I have to ask always.

 

[f33dm3bits]

I think a thing with myself is that for some tools I only know the command-line way of doing things, since for example when I started with Linux there were no good GUI tools for a lot of things. For example listing your devices and what drivers they are using, not sure if there any good GUI tools for those. I have seen some used here and there but never used them, that also being the reason why for most things I ask someone to run terminal commands.

 

[Brickwizard]

@f33dm3bits
you have had the same experiences as the rest of us, trying to information from a newbie can be like banging you head against Mt Rushmore, it is far easier to conjol them to run a few simple commands and pasting back the information

 

[KGIII]

For those answering those questions do you prefer to to help someone by explaining them what to run in the terminal or writing instructions(or making screenshots) of how to click through a GUI and why?

For most things, the terminal is how I recommend they fix it - when that's possible. It's not always possible.

Why? It's faster/easier and more universal.

 

[f33dm3bits]

Why? It's faster/easier and more universal.

Yes good point and agreed, when using the terminal the distribution and/or DE doesn't matter.

 

[kc1di]

I try to get newbies terminal aware at least some of the basics , but it's sometimes difficult when they are coming from a culture that shuns the terminal and only uses GUI for everything. Usually you can fix something or at least get the info you need to fix it via the terminal with much less pain. If they learn how to use the terminal early in their linux journey they will be ahead in the end. Just my opinion.
Using GUI tools is greatly dependent on the Distro being used. That's another big barrier to a Newbie since they come from a monolithic culture. The thought they actually have choices can be daunting. Some Distros like Mint and others provide many GUI tools others not so much. But no matter which distro you are using the terminal for the most part works.

 

[Deleted member 128018]

I'm a new to Linux user for 1-1/2 months maybe and I wasn't scared of command-line just confused at first.

What probability scares new to Linux users about command-line is the unwillingness to learn about command-line.

I learned how to use command-line by trial and error and copy and paste aka learn by doing.

 

[dos2unix]

Personally I find it easier (for most problems, not all problems)to get the information I need by telling the person what to type in the terminal so they can literally copy/paste it and report back. To get the same information would take a lot longer and longer to explain how to click through a GUI menu of settings which is also harder to do except then for screenshots which would also take a long time.

Again, it depends on the environment, for datacenters, headless is the way to go.
I agree with most all you say here. The downside (and I have seen this a few times) is that sometimes
the GUI is the "only" way to do something, and then you can't do it from the CLI.

This was a a problem with gsettings proxy for a while, it has since been fixed, but sometimes developers
get so fixated on the GUI, that it becomes impossible to do it from the CLI.

 

[KGIII]

Yes good point and agreed, when using the terminal the distribution and/or DE doesn't matter.

I figure it's also good for the long-term, meaning the answer is still likely to be valid in a few years when someone's arriving at the site via search engine.

I try to get newbies terminal aware at least some of the basics

This! There's a lot of (unfounded, I think) fear of the terminal. I think people probably think it's too complicated, but it's really not - though it can be, just like using a GUI can be complex. I find the terminal easier for many tasks.

Right now, find your system's uptime without using a terminal... Now, just type uptime into the terminal and there it is - along with some additional information about the state of the system.

I'd guess that 80% of my articles on linux-tips.us involve opening a terminal.

Alas, not everything can be done in the terminal. Some things require a GUI.

There are other times when a GUI is the right choice for the job. I often recommend ksystemlog instead of weeding through your error logs in the terminal. It's just so much better at presenting the data to the user that it makes sense to use that instead of the terminal and grep.

 

[Linuxembourg]

I am relatively new (just over 6 months) and I wouldn't say the command line scares people away. It's just a hassle, and at times I suppose for some too much of a hassle. I think there are far more off-putting things like general appearance, or the completely different file system in terms of permissions/locations,

Using terminal for installing apps is a hassle to say the least but I don't think it's the commands themselves, everyone can remember or copy them. It's the content of them, how do they know to get "brave-browser" and not "bravebrowser" or "brave_browser", etc? Or where did KGIII get the repositories for his installing chromium tutorial?

Anyway, in the case of troubleshooting I don't think it's an issue for the average user. I have never seen anyone tell someone to move a file or change desktop background using terminal. It's always (from my pov) very high level stuff that probably requires terminal.

 

[f33dm3bits]

Using terminal for installing apps is a hassle to say the least but I don't think it's the commands themselves, everyone can remember or copy them. It's the content of them, how do they know to get "brave-browser" and not "bravebrowser" or "brave_browser", etc? Or where did KGIII get the repositories for his installing chromium tutorial?

You use the search function of your package manager to look for the package first.

apt search brave
yum search brave

Then you will get output and find what you are looking for and then you can do.

sudo apt install brave
sudo yum install brave

Replacing "brave" with whatever the real name of the package you find by doing a search first.

 

[KGIII]

Using terminal for installing apps is a hassle to say the least

We differ greatly there. Pretty much everything I install is installed by the terminal - though I may sometimes use gdebi. Even then, when the .deb is downloaded already, I may still use the terminal with 'sudo apt install filename<tab', where I type the first few letters of the filename and press the tab button for autocompletion to do its thing.

 

[f33dm3bits]

Or where did KGIII get the repositories for his installing chromium tutorial?

Chromium is the opensource version of what Google-chrome is based off of so it's in the default repositories of most distributions.

apt search chromium
p  chromium              - web browser

 

[Linuxembourg]

We differ greatly there. Pretty much everything I install is installed by the terminal - though I may sometimes use gdebi. Even then, when the .deb is downloaded already, I may still use the terminal with 'sudo apt install filename<tab', where I type the first few letters of the filename and press the tab button for autocompletion to do its thing.

You’ve gotta remember that some of just use the pc for web browsing and playing music mainly. But I agree it’s better, it just requires more practice which I have no reason to get. I’m not against it I upgraded Debian last night using apt commands. But I can’t do it without looking it up first. Especially if it has been 3 months since I last used terminal

 

[Linuxembourg]

Chromium is the opensource version of what Google-chrome is based off of so it's in the default repositories of most distributions.

apt search chromium
p  chromium              - web browser

Not for lubuntu unless i am misremembering.

 

[f33dm3bits]

But I can’t do it without looking it up first. Especially if it has been 3 months since I last used terminal

It's impossible to remember everything and commands that you don't use on a regular basis that's why the --help flag and man pages for commands are so useful.

apt --help
man apt

Not for lubuntu unless i am misremembering.

@KGIII is an official Lubuntu member so he will know.

 

[KGIII]

But I can’t do it without looking it up first.

You learn the basics pretty fast if you use them often enough. They're almost muscle memory.

Not for lubuntu unless i am misremembering.

@KGIII is an official Lubuntu member so he will know.

You'll need to add the PPA, though Snap will work. The PPA in question is:

Chromium Beta branch : Saikrishna Arcot

This PPA contains the latest Chromium Beta builds, with hardware video decoding enabled (hidden behind a flag), and support for Widevine (needed for viewing many DRM-protected videos) enabled. == Hardware Video Decoding == To enable hardware video decoding, start Chromium with the...

launchpad.net

It says beta, but the stable branch is in there. Add the PPA, update, and then install 'chromium-browser'.

If you go to install it without the PPA, you end up with the Snap version.

 

[Deleted member 128018]

I upgraded Debian last night using apt commands. But I can’t do it without looking it up first. Especially if it has been 3 months since I last used terminal

I copy and paste needed commands to a document folder using LibreOffice and when needed it can be easily accessed.

 

[Condobloke]

I also have all the 'handy' stuff stored within easy reach

Some of the 'handy' stuff started to grow exponentially, so I employed Zim desktop wiki to store it in. It is also available in the Linux Software Manager.

I run two monitors so the Zim app is forever open on one monitor...reduced to the panel, so all it takes is two clicks and I have the info I need.