What is SystemD and the Controversy Regarding it? [Solved]

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Tolkem

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as explained in this video:
Hmmm ... I don't know what your point is by linking to that out of date video from 2012, but it's a bunch of falsehoods. I mean, just because it doesn't work for them(as they want it to even when it wasn't designed to work that way), it doesn't make it bad or suck. If anything, it only means that they're wrong at trying to make something do something it can't do, or even worse, trying to do something to behave in a way it shouldn't, and it can get even worse, trying to make something to be something that it's not. Again, if Linux doesn't work for them, either because they need some special feature that it can't provide them with, or simply because they decided that it didn't, go try somewhere else, seriously, and I mean it in a good way, if someday I find that Linux doesn't work for me, I'll try something else, what I won't do is go to a Linux forum and complain about it "being broken" just because I found that it doesn't work for me anymore.
 


KGIII

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A while back, I found the most recent numbers I could (for a U&L comment chain) and did the math.

There are approximately 44,000,000 desktop Linux users. While that's a small share of the desktop market, that's still a very large number of people. For the most part, they manage just fine.

As for the fragmentation, I much prefer that. There's a distro for pretty much every need. It's great. If you don't like any of them, you can spend a few months learning and create your own distro. If it's any good, people will use it. It's a meritocracy where knowledge and skill are rewarded.
 

SpongebobFan1994

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@Tolkem

I'll agree with what you said about him basically saying Linux doesn't work for him. However, when I was sharing that video, I was backing up his point about how a significant amount of Linux users want everything to be free of charge on top of being free (or to be more ideologically-correct, "libre") software. As he said, that company or development team worked hard to make that program or distro, so they should charge people to buy it, but the free-tards don't want that because of their misconception of the word "free". DistroTube also made a video on Why Linux Failed on the Desktop, and he mentioned that because development teams don't charge for distros, the user is then responsible for fixing whatever happens to their computer. Because of that, I'd like to see a link for a distro's customer support line if it exists.
 

SpongebobFan1994

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As for the fragmentation, I much prefer that. There's a distro for pretty much every need. It's great. If you don't like any of them, you can spend a few months learning and create your own distro.
As I've said many times before, the fragmentation is exactly why most tech companies don't waste their time with Linux. Yes, snap packs, flatpacks, and appimages do make interoperability easier (which is a step in the right direction), but probably why they ignore it is because they have to have their development teams study how each distro works, and then figure out how to make the program compatible with each one (which is not an easy thing to do).
 

Tolkem

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I was backing up his point about how a significant amount of Linux users want everything to be free of charge on top of being free (or to be more ideologically-correct, "libre") software.
How many are a "significant amount"? Do you have the numbers to back that up? Many people want everything "free of charge", otherwise, they wouldn't hack programs to avoid paying licenses fees, would they? I'm not saying that's ok or that I support that idea, but it is what it is. Many distros have a "donation" program and people are willing to collaborate with their projects, and that's great IMO. I've never got this obsession of people with the so-called "desktop market share" being so "small" compared to that of, for example, Windows'. That's mainly because most computers still ship with Windows, and people don't have a choice, but that's changing as more and more companies are investing to build and sell Linux-ready PCs and laptops. https://frame.work/
For those of you who love to tinker, we’ve also created the Framework Laptop DIY Edition, the only high-end notebook available as a kit of modules that you can customize and assemble yourself, with the ability to choose Windows or install your favorite Linux distribution.
I think in a not-so distant future, it won't even matter what OS you use, after all, the cloud infrastructure is under heavy development and all that is needed is a web browser, and any OS can run one of those.
Because of that, I'd like to see a link for a distro's customer support line if it exists.
I'll give you more than 1
Note that these are for "enterprise" editions, not for the "community" ones, for those you have community forums such as linux.org.
 

SpongebobFan1994

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@Tolkem

I was trying to find a poll link that would give an exact number of those people, but the search results kept getting skewed. I even tried typing in "Linux" on Debate.org, and looking for anything regarding Linux on DebateIsland.com, but couldn't find anything. However, there still isn't anything wrong with a development team charging for support, funding, paying their staff, or other necessary reasons, as seen here: https://analyticsindiamag.com/5-reasons-why-charging-money-for-linux-distributions-makes-sense/ Yes, I'm well aware of that distro developers make most of their money through donations, merchandise, and sometimes grants, but as I said, they can't always rely on them to keep the lights on. I'm not saying they have to charge the same amount that Microsoft does for new versions of Windows, if anything, they should charge less than them so consumers will find their distro more affordable.

The reason I keep talking about the market share is because 3rd party support is necessary to get Linux to run smoother (hence why I mentioned 3rd party software, gaming, and drivers), but developers don't care because of it's stake in the market share. Because Linux is so complex, its a challenge for them to create anything that can be ran in it coherently (again, snaps, flatpacks, and appimages are a step in the right direction, but they're still relatively new to developers). I imagine another reason why it gets shafted in this area is because companies like Adobe want full control over programs like Photoshop or After Effects (in both profits and development), and by allowing other people or companies to have access to the source code, they're afraid they'll lose profits and eventually go bankrupt. I understand that's a limited way of thinking (because someone with a programming background could make improvements on a program, which would help the company who originally made it), but they're looking at it from a business perspective, not an open-source software one.
 

SpongebobFan1994

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**ATTENTION**

After debating with multiple users all day over this, I've realized this topic has gotten a bit out of hand, and now I honestly just want to end it and move onto something else. Thank you to everyone who contributed to this.
 

Hillbilly H

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All i will say is i like my Linux os and greatly appreciate all the people for there time and effort.
P.S. Do not pull a semi trailer with a vw bug.
 

darry1966

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Spongebob Fan the discussion was interesting thankyou for the thread.

I used to be against systemd and found that it has matured and It is an option in debiandog - Puppy like distro I use and find it very solid.
 

Tolkem

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Linux is "broken"? Couldn't be further from the truth
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=FWUPD-1.6-Released
FWUPD along with the Linux Vendor Firmware Service (LVFS) continue to be a triumphant success with growing industry adoption from major hardware vendors for updating a variety of device/system firmware under Linux. FWUPD and LVFS have vastly improved the Linux firmware updating service in recent years compared to long ago when firmware updates often meant booting into Windows, booting a FreeDOS image, or similar extra hurdles to jump through in order to manage such updates.
Oh, and it's been ported to BSD
With the incredible success of FWUPD and the Linux Vendor Firmware Service (LVFS) where most major hardware vendors are supporting it in some capacity for distributing firmware updates to Linux customers, there are BSD developers working to it port it over to their camp to support firmware updates.
It was just this past September that LVFS served its 20 millionth firmware file to Linux users updating their system BIOS or device firmware using Fwupd while this week the Linux Vendor Firmware Service crossed the 25 million milestone!
 

f33dm3bits

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SpongebobFan1994

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I've politely asked people to stop responding to this thread because I'm tired of the constant and now-pointless debating, but now I'm seeing that they're ignoring my request. I already was starting to get annoyed with debates themselves, but seeing people deliberately keeping them going is making me more annoyed.

Lets all finally drop the subject
 

wizardfromoz

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Settle the ruffled feathers, folks. There is no need for pistols at 20 paces.

The OP edited the Thread title nearly a day ago to reflect "Solved", although many may not have noticed.

He has chosen not to pursue the subject.

In a form of microcosmic way, the emotive debate the subject has generated reflects that in the macro world of the greater Linux Community.

I do not see anything as being likely to be solved here and I am placing a Lock on the thread unless or until Staff agree otherwise - @Rob and @KGIII please note.

Thank you all and enjoy your Linux.

Chris Turner
wizardfromoz
 
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