wendy-lebaron
Well-Known Member
i'm trying to learn common lisp. believe it or not.
in 2022 while i was still using windows. i found out about racket. i like dr.racket. it's a good tool for beginners. however i really didn't learn anything from the tutorials. the manual is written very well. but i'm one that requires actual code examples that are explained. not advanced concepts suddenly thrown in, for those people who are impatient.
after a while messing around with julia. then deciding it's like a bloated version of lua. with concepts i don't like. such as "*" for concatenation instead of "+". and i cannot avoid oop anyway. i threw it aside. decided to learn lisp. but this year i didn't want to try again with scheme/racket. desired to know why the "superior" branch of lisp is superior.
i've considered python, ruby, rust, terra-lang and a couple of others. i took a quick look at newlisp. (only because the author didn't want to get "(1 . 2)" as reply from "(cons 1 2)"? although that was a pita for me to process.) my internet connection is very limited. otherwise i think i would have been part of the rust fad.
"pip" was broken on one of my linux os installations. had a hard time fetching library packages for python, installing them and making sure they worked. i succeeded with only two libraries: "pygame" and "pyart". i really wanted to install this library. which was based on a javascript one. so i could enjoy the works of a certain "sketch-a-day" author on github. so i quickly gave up on that. python is ok but i don't think i would benefit a lot from it. i really really dislike object-oriented programming. sorry. just don't tell me "it's very necessary" because i'm not looking for a job in programming. after picking up a few books about c++. reading some of the most arrogant authors in the business. i just don't want to deal with it.
i've noticed honest-to-goodness documentation is where common lisp is lacking. it seems there's an association that wants to protect their knowledge. otherwise i have to modify my way of thinking about programming. i looked at some code examples. it bewilders me. because it's quite different. from a similar construct in basic or lua.
i started with a "ddg" search. into a page that recommended five or six systems of common lisp. i happened to choose the "best one" on debian. steel bank common lisp (sbcl). sadly the latest release doesn't work on debian "bullseye". requires "glibc" 2.33. (should work on slackware 15 but not "current".) so i had to restore spirallinux somewhere. to be able to use "sbcl".
(the best one, huh? try installing with "apt". the "cl-quicklisp" package. on a system that has no common lisp whatsoever.)
it's fun and frustrating at the same time. trying to get down what's a list. what's a string. what's a number. i downloaded the "common lisp cookbook" in pdf format. however it was going like the racket manual. sometimes it says something about a library and a routine. as if i'm expected to completely figure it out. yeah if i wasn't a total beginner already. such as using "alexandria" library. to really learn. i have to look at the source code files for that library.
because i'm always interested in music-creation possibilities. downloaded "clm". but it requires "csh" installed. it's somewhat difficult to get into. it helps i had used csound and the commands are similar. the user creates an "instrument definition" which is lisp code. then ask the system to "compile" it into c code. call "cc" to turn that into shared library. which is loaded by "clm". no need for pipewire/jack. it could export to wav or aiff, or the "sun dot-snd" format. it could save in and play back multi-channel audio. but actually going into "sbcl" to create music with it. with scripts is somewhat ornery. nevertheless it's something i could use somewhat. by using lua to fabricate lisp code. i'm supposed to be using lisp only.
i did install "sbcl" 2.1.1 on debian "bullseye". the "clm" works there. but it's recommended instead. to run on "bookworm" or "trixie" base. with the latest version/release of the programming system. obtained from their website.
in 2022 while i was still using windows. i found out about racket. i like dr.racket. it's a good tool for beginners. however i really didn't learn anything from the tutorials. the manual is written very well. but i'm one that requires actual code examples that are explained. not advanced concepts suddenly thrown in, for those people who are impatient.
after a while messing around with julia. then deciding it's like a bloated version of lua. with concepts i don't like. such as "*" for concatenation instead of "+". and i cannot avoid oop anyway. i threw it aside. decided to learn lisp. but this year i didn't want to try again with scheme/racket. desired to know why the "superior" branch of lisp is superior.
i've considered python, ruby, rust, terra-lang and a couple of others. i took a quick look at newlisp. (only because the author didn't want to get "(1 . 2)" as reply from "(cons 1 2)"? although that was a pita for me to process.) my internet connection is very limited. otherwise i think i would have been part of the rust fad.
"pip" was broken on one of my linux os installations. had a hard time fetching library packages for python, installing them and making sure they worked. i succeeded with only two libraries: "pygame" and "pyart". i really wanted to install this library. which was based on a javascript one. so i could enjoy the works of a certain "sketch-a-day" author on github. so i quickly gave up on that. python is ok but i don't think i would benefit a lot from it. i really really dislike object-oriented programming. sorry. just don't tell me "it's very necessary" because i'm not looking for a job in programming. after picking up a few books about c++. reading some of the most arrogant authors in the business. i just don't want to deal with it.
i've noticed honest-to-goodness documentation is where common lisp is lacking. it seems there's an association that wants to protect their knowledge. otherwise i have to modify my way of thinking about programming. i looked at some code examples. it bewilders me. because it's quite different. from a similar construct in basic or lua.
i started with a "ddg" search. into a page that recommended five or six systems of common lisp. i happened to choose the "best one" on debian. steel bank common lisp (sbcl). sadly the latest release doesn't work on debian "bullseye". requires "glibc" 2.33. (should work on slackware 15 but not "current".) so i had to restore spirallinux somewhere. to be able to use "sbcl".
(the best one, huh? try installing with "apt". the "cl-quicklisp" package. on a system that has no common lisp whatsoever.)
it's fun and frustrating at the same time. trying to get down what's a list. what's a string. what's a number. i downloaded the "common lisp cookbook" in pdf format. however it was going like the racket manual. sometimes it says something about a library and a routine. as if i'm expected to completely figure it out. yeah if i wasn't a total beginner already. such as using "alexandria" library. to really learn. i have to look at the source code files for that library.
because i'm always interested in music-creation possibilities. downloaded "clm". but it requires "csh" installed. it's somewhat difficult to get into. it helps i had used csound and the commands are similar. the user creates an "instrument definition" which is lisp code. then ask the system to "compile" it into c code. call "cc" to turn that into shared library. which is loaded by "clm". no need for pipewire/jack. it could export to wav or aiff, or the "sun dot-snd" format. it could save in and play back multi-channel audio. but actually going into "sbcl" to create music with it. with scripts is somewhat ornery. nevertheless it's something i could use somewhat. by using lua to fabricate lisp code. i'm supposed to be using lisp only.
i did install "sbcl" 2.1.1 on debian "bullseye". the "clm" works there. but it's recommended instead. to run on "bookworm" or "trixie" base. with the latest version/release of the programming system. obtained from their website.
