Coninical /Ubuntu reaches agreement with it's spins to not offer flatpacks by default.

kc1di

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I'll add the original public statement on the matter

- https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/ubuntu-flavor-packaging-defaults/34061

For some flavors, (eg. Lubuntu), that means no change whatsoever has occurred. I'll provide as example this page we added on adding a flatpak (https://discourse.lubuntu.me/t/using-flatpaks-on-lubuntu/4021) which will work on all Ubuntu systems too (as long as 'universe' is enabled; it's not by default on Ubuntu Desktop/Server/..).

The difference is only that the packages are not installed by default on a new install; ie. you have to manually `apt install` yourself. No changes were made to the repositories.

(I'm using Lubuntu as example; but it applied to many including from memory Xubuntu too; eg. I don't see any flatpak reference in https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/22.10/release/xubuntu-22.10-desktop-amd64.manifest for example. Kubuntu had included support the longest, but some were recent only (eg. 22.10))
 
I will further add:

It makes sense. They want you to use Snaps and, perhaps more importantly, they want a consistency among the official flavors. The myriad unofficial distros based on Ubuntu are free to make their own choices.

And, as pointed out by my peer @guiverc, it's still trivial to add Flatpack support to your Ubuntu system.
 
Also an interesting tool to know about.
Written my Alan Pope.
 
Actually SNAPS are a #*%@&^# mess . The user should be explicitly asked if he wants software by SNAPS, and he should be warned in advance of the problems if he does accept SNAPS, and the asked again if he is aware of the problems and asked again if het decidedly wants SNAPS, and to confirm that heś absolutely sure that he knows what heś doing... and perhaps repeat the conformation process to make sure itś all right ...
where i live we use card readers to read EID-card, Bankcard and other chipped plastic for a number of purposes. The different levels of government want to reduce their "foot print" on the users time so they create digital platforms, to request all kinds of forms ( they even invent forms to request forms to request extract from official; registers ) make appointments etc etc... you have a digital platform for taxes... for health, social security, pensions, unemployment, benefits, and whatttttttnot. They even created a digital mailbox platform for all citizens, that way they don´t have to register your email adres and change it when you change provider. for all those platform you need to login suing your EID, using a card reader.

Comes around CANNONICAL ( double NN pun intended) tehy put stuff in SNAPS like firefox. I bloody well like my FF browser because i can put in a lot of security addons, and because it WORKS unlike chrome that has more hangups than Mickeyshot Winslows95 ... and suddenly the EID software is unusable. I can install the middleware, I can install the firefox addon, i can put my EID in the card reader BUT I cannot login to the Gouvernmental platforms or my gvmtprovided emailbox. And when you tell the civile unservants you cannot receive their communications they send you a standard letter telling you how to login using your EID...

Thnaks to the use of SNAPS delivery for Firefox the browser cannot communicate with a USB cardreader hardware, the PKCS11 interface and the other middleware, with the EID addon in Firefox ...
known issue to SNAPS well known to Cannonical , they couldn´t care less what the issue is or consider a solution, at least not for general users like miyself, becasue I suspect that this issue is resolved in "corporate licensed UBUNTU. I've seen a corporate envorment where thsi chipcard issue is not a problem on Ubuntu (desktop) 22.xx so i can only assume that that problem was resolved but not made publicly available.
 
Unhappy with Ubuntu / Canonical I'm sure that Ubuntu / Canonical will be more than happy to give you a full refund for the amount you paid. ;)
 
Actually SNAPS are a #*%@&^# mess . The user should be explicitly asked if he wants software by SNAPS, and he should be warned in advance of the problems if he does accept SNAPS, and the asked again if he is aware of the problems and asked again if het decidedly wants SNAPS, and to confirm that heś absolutely sure that he knows what heś doing... and perhaps repeat the conformation process to make sure itś all right ...
where i live we use card readers to read EID-card, Bankcard and other chipped plastic for a number of purposes. The different levels of government want to reduce their "foot print" on the users time so they create digital platforms, to request all kinds of forms ( they even invent forms to request forms to request extract from official; registers ) make appointments etc etc... you have a digital platform for taxes... for health, social security, pensions, unemployment, benefits, and whatttttttnot. They even created a digital mailbox platform for all citizens, that way they don´t have to register your email adres and change it when you change provider. for all those platform you need to login suing your EID, using a card reader.

Comes around CANNONICAL ( double NN pun intended) tehy put stuff in SNAPS like firefox. I bloody well like my FF browser because i can put in a lot of security addons, and because it WORKS unlike chrome that has more hangups than Mickeyshot Winslows95 ... and suddenly the EID software is unusable. I can install the middleware, I can install the firefox addon, i can put my EID in the card reader BUT I cannot login to the Gouvernmental platforms or my gvmtprovided emailbox. And when you tell the civile unservants you cannot receive their communications they send you a standard letter telling you how to login using your EID...

Thnaks to the use of SNAPS delivery for Firefox the browser cannot communicate with a USB cardreader hardware, the PKCS11 interface and the other middleware, with the EID addon in Firefox ...
known issue to SNAPS well known to Cannonical , they couldn´t care less what the issue is or consider a solution, at least not for general users like miyself, becasue I suspect that this issue is resolved in "corporate licensed UBUNTU. I've seen a corporate envorment where thsi chipcard issue is not a problem on Ubuntu (desktop) 22.xx so i can only assume that that problem was resolved but not made publicly available.
It was Mozilla that requested Firefox be delivered as a snap package, not Ubuntu or Canonical that suggested it.

As was stated in the FFe & first post on the subject of `firefox` as a snap back in Sept-2021 was the following

This is the result of cooperation and collaboration between the Desktop and Snap teams at Canonical and Mozilla developers, and is the first step towards a deb-to-snap transition that will take place during the 22.04 development cycle.
..
When Mozilla approached Canonical, they had some clear benefits in mind. Those included:

Yes it was Canonical that moved `chromium` for deb to snap package, as there is no upstream packager involved in that process, but Firefox was packaged by Mozilla, thus of course they had huge sway in suggesting change of package type for firefox.
 
It was Mozilla that requested Firefox be delivered as a snap package, not Ubuntu or Canonical that suggested it.

As was stated in the FFe & first post on the subject of `firefox` as a snap back in Sept-2021 was the following

Yes it was Canonical that moved `chromium` for deb to snap package, as there is no upstream packager involved in that process, but Firefox was packaged by Mozilla, thus of course they had huge sway in suggesting change of package type for firefox.
Cannonical is the developper of SNAP, Mozilla didn´t ask, their arm was twisted Cannonical FORCED Mozilla to make that request , mozilla doesn´t care how their browser is delivered to the user ... deb, snap flatpak or by wheelbarrow as long as it gets there , and itś cannonical that want snap, so cannoncal says either you use snap or you don´t get onto the ubuntu repositories " the Mozilla requested " arguemnent is fake , bulsshit , is LIES

and the discussion in the linked article is clearly form people who don´t use ubuntu for real life application, but as benchmarkers and test users but that SNAP or not discussion is not the point

Not all functionality is included/available in the snap version of firefox banking and cardreader applications are unusable
 
Unhappy with Ubuntu / Canonical I'm sure that Ubuntu / Canonical will be more than happy to give you a full refund for the amount you paid. ;)
another cannonical spinner Bartman making sure nothing untoward is said about it ?
Itś not about a refund, itś about that Microsoft-like attitude towards users : for the best part oif 2 decades Microsoft denied there were security issues with windows and office , and malware was a figment of the imagination of security guru's, using spinners and marketing efforts to deflect attention from the real issue security flaws in their products
 
@derekvg if you don't care for the direction of Ubuntu / Canonical than choose a Linux distro that is free of Snaps.

Don't care for Firefox Snap the use the non-Snap Firefox.


From another article.
All fake-experts hate snaps, because they love bashing Canonical.
 
What I learned today:
  • Flatpack is no longer included by default in Ubuntu flavors.
    • ... but you can easily install Flatpack for yourself if you want it.
  • There are tools to help you migrate away from Snap to Flatpack.
  • @derekvg does not like Canonical or Snaps.
and
  • How much I wish that posts would stick to facts and cite sources.
  • How much I wish everyone would be civil to each other.
 
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  • How much I wish that posts would stick to facts and cite sources.
  • How much I wish everyone would be civil to each other.

Facts and civility would be nice. In fact, civility would be how our rules boil down.

It'd be nice to not have to put on my moderator hat.
 
@derekvg if you don't care for the direction of Ubuntu / Canonical than choose a Linux distro that is free of Snaps.

Don't care for Firefox Snap the use the non-Snap Firefox.


From another article.
All fake-experts hate snaps, because they love bashing Canonical.
about distro choices , yes i've made up my mind ubuntu is out after 8 years, I go probably Mint, and Debian for the server beacuse itś less of a learning curve

I have searched a litanny of "go for Deb-Firefox" but
A) firts of all I didn´t have a choiice to not go for snaps , Cannonical shoved it down my throat during an update, and they did it behind my back
B) Cannonocal didn´t inform me of the consequesnces of SNAPS that I would not be able to use cardreaders, do banking connect with public platforms etc before blindsiding me with the SNAPS MALWARE
C) In november anopther Cannonical spinner published an article https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/11/firefox-snap-native-messaging-take-two that the problem was resolved ... itś not , it lies
after searching and reading the list of articles about replacing snap-firefox with deb--firefox i found out that
to begin with if you do as described in the articles you are still getting the SNAPS based software installed instead of the deb based product
1- you have to remove all snap based software form your system , eg gnome, audacity, firefox etc etc...
2- you have to remove the snaps software itself because you cannot leave snaps on the machine and only install FF from deb
3- you have to find info on how to remove definitively SNAPS from the apt and update systems so that it doesn´t get reisnatlled behind your back
4- for each software you took out you have to set parameters that suppress snap based updates , cause reinstallatioon of SNAP and the snapbased software package and to prioriotise the updates from deb based repositories
If I look at it SNAP has all the hallmarks of a virus not of legitimate software

Actually the sarcastic personal attacks of bartman an sphen , our local playground bullyś, are the reason many people are vitriollic in their comments because reporting the problem and asking Cannonical or the community experts for a solution gets you nowhere. In the same way you get nowhere with MickeyShit, itś why after eight years of feeling quite satisfied with Ubuntu iḿ now looking elsewhere
 
Facts and civility would be nice. In fact, civility would be how our rules boil down.

It'd be nice to not have to put on my moderator hat.
Civility starts with not bullying users because they vent criticism or rant about something, with sarcastic personal attacks isn´t it ?
 
[...] Actually the sarcastic personal attacks of bartman an sphen , our local playground bullyś, are the reason many people are vitriollic in their comments [...]
Civility starts with not bullying users because they vent criticism or rant about something, with sarcastic personal attacks isn´t it ?
Excuse me? I am not a bully, nor do I like being called one. I am sorry if I offended you. It was never my intent.

I read the content of your posts with interest. All I asked (as politely as I could) that you tone down the nicknames and other distractions so we can read and understand the important content. Furthermore, please stop the personal attacks on those who object to your posts.

I read your post #13 and liked the improvements. You addressed specific issues point by point and included a link for further reading. All was going in a better direction until I got to that final paragraph. You know a lot about Canonical and Snaps, and those topics interest me and others. Like you, I am concerned about several issues related to Canonical and Snaps, but they are not important at the moment.

With the utmost respect for you, please change your writing style to get your important points across to everyone here. Did I make that clear in a simple, polite way?
-> Try a different approach and you may attract a lot of interest and a good following here on Linux.org.
 
Canconical has made some bad decisions in the past, now they are continuing their path. I think more Distros should be Debian based and even Debian testing based. there aren't much Distros, that make use of Debian testing like Kali does. Kali seems to have made great success with it.
 
I'm going to lock this thread for the time being. It appears that we can't have a reasoned discussion.

It could be a minute before it's opened again. It may not be opened again. We shall see...
 
From @derekvg the following

I've read the reaction of Sphen and i would like to apologise for calling him and Bartman bullys.
I cant make another first impression and I cannot turn back time. my entry was not a success , and i do understand i got derailed and i was oversensitive.

Nicely offered and welcome to linux.org :)

This thread is open again for business.

Enjoy your Linux, whatever its flavor.

Wizard
 

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