An AI adventure

osprey

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This is a bit of a fun post, inspired by the thread here: https://www.linux.org/threads/whats-the-deal-with-using-ai-in-replies-in-topics.62602/. It's a bit long because it includes AI responses in full as they appeared on screen on this computer. The post endeavours to make a point about AI from an experience with it.

In the study of linguistics there's a well known example of an English sentence created by the linguistics scholar Noam Chomsky in his book "Syntactic Structures" released in 1957. The sentence is:
Code:
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.
What the sentence exhibited was a conventionally correct grammatical structure, but had no logical meaning, or literally understandable meaning, because of the inappropriate relationships of meaning between the words. Ideas aren't usually green, and sleep is not usually furious etc. The point of the sentence was to indicate that grammar (the structure of sentences) is independent of semantics (the meaning of sentences). What would follow from that is that meaning is not dependent on particular structures in natural language.

The concept inherent in the example of that particular sentence, and what it purports to prove can be exhibited in any other sentence which has the same aspects of conventionally correct grammatical structure but without logical meaning or a literally comprehensible meaning. Such an example could be:
Code:
Faithless pious insects erupt somnambulantly.
The challenge set for AI was: what can AI inform an inquirer about the characteristics and inferences associated with sentences like this?

When the sentence "faithless pious insects erupt somnambulantly" was written into the ChatGPT dialog box at first, this was the response:
Code:
ChatGPT said:

That phrase feels like surrealist poetry—charged with contradiction and movement.

    “Faithless pious” — a paradox. It suggests someone (or something) outwardly devout but inwardly empty, or ritual without belief.

    “Insects erupt” — small, usually unnoticed lifeforms suddenly becoming overwhelming. It evokes decay, transformation, or suppressed truths bursting out.

    “Somnambulantly” — sleepwalking. Unconscious, automatic, unaware.

Taken together, it paints a scene of blind devotion cracking open, releasing swarms of hidden realities—actions performed without awareness until something suppressed breaks through.

If you’d like, here’s a short poetic expansion:

    Faithless pious insects erupt somnambulantly—
    from cathedral walls of bone and borrowed creed.
    They spill from the seams of whispered prayers,
    crawling through incense-heavy air,
    winged doubts beating against stained glass sleep.
    No one wakes.
    The hymns continue.

Would you like an interpretation in a philosophical, psychological, or purely abstract direction?

Note that ChatGPT has described the sentence as a "phrase", but it is actually a sentence with nouns and verbs and adjectives all in the conventionally correct places for English to create a sentence.

Next challenge for AI was to enter the Chomsky sentence:

Code:
ChatGPT said:

“Colorless green ideas sleep furiously” is a famous sentence coined by the linguist Noam Chomsky in 1957 in his book Syntactic Structures.

He created it to show that:

    A sentence can be grammatically correct

    Yet still be semantically nonsensical

Why it’s grammatically correct

The structure follows standard English syntax:

    Colorless (adjective)

    green (adjective)

    ideas (noun)

    sleep (verb)

    furiously (adverb)

Everything is in the right order according to English grammar rules.
Why it’s meaningless

    Something cannot logically be both colorless and green.

    Ideas don’t literally sleep.

    Sleeping furiously is contradictory.

Chomsky used this example to argue that grammar (syntax) operates independently from meaning (semantics), challenging behaviorist theories of language at the time.

After having entered the sentence which ChatGPT had correctly identified, the second sentence which exhibits the same conceptualisation was entered:

Code:
ChatGPT said:

“Faithless pious insects erupt somnambulantly” feels like a playful echo of Noam Chomsky’s famous sentence in Syntactic Structures.
Why it works grammatically

It follows a perfectly valid English structure:

    Faithless (adjective)

    pious (adjective)

    insects (noun)

    erupt (verb)

    somnambulantly (adverb)

Syntactically, everything is in the correct order.
Why it feels strange

    Faithless and pious contradict each other.

    Insects aren’t typically described in religious terms.

    Erupt suggests violent emergence.

    Somnambulantly (sleepwalkingly) implies unconscious or dreamlike action.

    Violent eruption and sleepy wandering clash semantically.

So, like the earlier sentence, it demonstrates that:

    Grammatical structure does not guarantee meaningful sense.

That said, unlike Chomsky’s example, your sentence has a kind of surreal poetry to it. It almost suggests:

    Creatures acting ritualistically without belief.

    Instinctual life bursting forth unconsciously.

    Contradictory identities moving in a dream-state.

After having correctly identified the Chomsky sentence, ChatGPT has been able to relate the information it was able to access, to the second sentence and identify the similarity of concept, and was correct in doing so.

As an addendum, the second sentence "faithless pious insects erupt somnambulantly" was entered into two other AI interlocutors with the results being similar to the initial ignorant response ChatGPT provided in the first response above:

In perplexity:
Code:
That phrase reads as intentionally surreal word salad rather than a standard expression or quote, so it does not have a fixed, recognized meaning in English.
Possible interpretation

Broken into parts, it can be read as:

    faithless pious – a paradox combining devotion (“pious”) with lack of faith (“faithless”), suggesting hypocrisy, empty ritual, or spiritual confusion.

    insects – often symbolic of small, swarming, unsettling forces (anxieties, intrusive thoughts, societal “bugs,” or corrupting influences).

    erupt – a sudden outburst or breaking through a surface, like repressed feelings or hidden problems suddenly coming to light.

    somnambulantly – “as if sleepwalking,” suggesting unconscious, automatic, or unexamined behavior.

Taken together, a reasonable paraphrase is: “Unfaithful believers, like swarming inner pests, burst out in a sleepwalking, unconscious way.” It evokes a mood of spiritual hypocrisy and unconscious, insect-like agitation spilling out from beneath a supposedly devout surface.

Were you aiming for lyrics, a poem title, or a prompt, or do you want help refining this into something more coherent?

In gemini:
Code:
 Gemini said

That is a strikingly evocative string of words—it sounds like the opening line of a gothic surrealist poem or perhaps a very intense progressive metal album.

You’ve managed to pack a lot of heavy imagery into just five words. Let’s break down the "vibe" of that phrase:
The Anatomy of the Image

    The Paradox: Combining "faithless" and "pious" creates an immediate tension. It suggests a devotion to nothingness, or perhaps a ritual performed without belief.

    The Subject: Insects often represent the hive mind, instinct, or a creeping, unstoppable force.

    The Action: "Erupt" suggests a sudden, violent breaking through the surface.

    The Manner: "Somnambulantly" (sleepwalking) adds a layer of eerie, unconscious movement. It implies that this eruption is happening while the world—or the insects themselves—is dreaming.

If this were a writing prompt...

I could see this unfolding in a few ways:

    High Fantasy/Horror: A civilization that worships a dead god discovers that their "prayers" have physically manifested as a swarm of mindless, shimmering locusts.

    Modern Surrealism: An allegory for how ideas or trends spread through social media—mechanical, unthinking, yet strangely "holy" to those involved.

    Abstract Poetry: Focusing on the phonetic texture of the words (the hiss of "faithless" vs. the "p" and "b" sounds in "pious" and "somnambulantly").

It appears that if AI has the information accessible to it, such as in the form of a text somewhere that it can retrieve, it provides that text and presents it using its internal language handling algorithms which are known to involve statistical processes. When it comes to conceptualisation which is a common characteristic of human intelligence, the AI is not so adept, to say the least. When AI is provided with "hints" or examples it can apply to text, it can use those hints and produce meaningful results.

There's nothing definitive about the above adventure and readers can draw their own conclusions of course :-) .
 


I see a few memorable passphrases ^^^^^
 
@osprey :-

Coincidentally, those "phrases" are very similar to the ones generated - at random - by the Jitsi 'Meet' video chat client as 'identifiers' for the session you're about to create with it.

You can see this in action by visiting the Jitsi webapp page, and watching the phrases generated in the box at the top of the page. They change every 10 seconds or so. You decide what you want to use by clicking on the 'Start meeting' button when ready...


This is the same technology that powers the video-chat client built into the Brave browser. It even looks identical!

(I used to use the community-built, 3rd-party Jitsi 'Meet' AppImage, but switched to using the webapp a few years ago when Jitsi moved to a model which required log-in confirmation via the 'Firebase' authentication module. The webapp utilises it seamlessly; the AppImage desktop client, however, is totally unable to access it.....so login ALWAYS fails.

The desktop client has been around since mid-2020.....the first year of COVID, when video-chat clients were taking off in a BIG way. They STILL haven't fixed this.)

(sigh...)



Mike. ;)
 
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When AI is provided with "hints" or examples it can apply to text, it can use those hints and produce meaningful results.
Those hints usually referred by the jargon of these things as "the context". When you provided Chat GPT with the context of the Noam Chomsky's example it narrowed the "attention" span (the transformers model statistically the concept of "attention" as per the Google Paper "Attention is what you need"). It's like when you use the predictive text on any of of our smartphones' keyboards starting from a word v. starting from a phrase v. starting from a sentence: the more starting point you input, the more the prediction fulfils your expectations.

That is why, if you want to use these LLM, which are more or less overpowered auto-completion engines, the more context you can provide, the more sense the text output makes.

Still, it's quite obscure. There's a lot of things these companies state without explaining, and that also includes to the models they open sourced and even to the datasets in hugging face.
 
hat is why, if you want to use these LLM, which are more or less overpowered auto-completion engines, the more context you can provide, the more sense the text output makes.
they are still basically screen scrapers like all search engines with updated software the old adage still applies.. RIRO
 
they are still basically screen scrapers like all search engines with updated software the old adage still applies.. RIRO
On the notion that AI generators are "basically screen scapers", if that means they screen scrape and not much more, then it's not the case now, if it ever was the case. Consider the example mentioned here in an earlier thread: https://www.linux.org/threads/how-would-you-create-your-own-generative-ai.48486/post-217513.

AI can create entirely new constructions of knowledge never encountered before. There are numerous examples of this in the processing of data and extracting relationships between elements of the subject matter never seen or conceived of before. AI is particularly useful for this in dealing with huge data sets in scientific research. It can also produce absurd and useless outputs ... that's where human oversight is essential.

The description that @gvisoc mentions in post #4 also indicates AI processing where, in that case, context influences the output which is quite different to "screen scraping". In my own case, AI processing is particularly relevant to coding. AI is not "screen scraping" in that situation either, but processing data using its algorithms and statistical tools. In the case of creating code, new code to deal with specific issues, working with AI to debug the code with continual amendments until the code eventually does what it's intended to do, again, is a processing function, not simple screen scraping. AI in the coding assistance field can be particularly adept at following rules which coders may inadvertently break or skip around sub-optimally. The eventual code solution is also often a novel creation, not seen before. Again, it's not just screen scraping.
 
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is not the case now,
if they were not screen scrapers, then where did their information come from and how did they get it in the first place. You will probably say by web scraping or using Bots, which although one method is more modern than the other they still do the same job to scrape for information
 
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if they were not screen scrapers, then where did their information come from and how did they get it in the first place. You will probably say by web scraping or using Bots, which although one method is more modern than the other they still do the same job to scrape for information
The point being made in post #6 is that AI is not just screen scraping, rather it does a lot more. It wasn't saying that it hasn't screen scraped ... of course it has, but that wasn't quite the issue being addressed. :-)

I've made a small amendment to post #6 to hopefully make it clearer.
 
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There are many things that 'AI' does not yet do well. Also, there are many people who have adopted their own definitions for 'AI', so we're not all working on the same page.

If it's so esoteric, nuanced, and poorly defined, your average human isn't going to be good at it. Go downtown, bring a mic and camera with you so that people think they're important, and ask these same questions to the people you meet on the street.

It's going to take time, and progress has been quick as of late.

I'm reminded in a way about the whole 'self-driving cars' thing. People clamor on about how they have to be perfect. No, they don't have to be perfect. They just have to be better than most human drivers. As it stands now, self-driving cars are (in their very limited application) doing much better than human drivers. (Note the caveat, that's important.)

I may have a slight advantage here, as I know the terminology to get what I want out of the system. The following is a link to a perfectly good thrashy/speedy metal with some solid guitar riffs:


That was made with AI. Is it the greatest? Nope. It's sure better (to my ears) than a whole wealth of music that has been made by extremely popular musical artists.

You can also try this one:


(Mega has some playback artifacts that are not the fault of the actual file. It tends to buffer for just a split second here and there, especially at the start.)

I think I'll conclude that AI has come a long way. It can be legitimately useful.

Give your favorite AI this input: "Explain the importance of Bell's Theorem where it relates to true random."

(As an aside, randomness is one of my favorite things to ponder.)
 
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I think one important thing this experiment also shows is how much the prompt itself influences what the AI does.

From my own experience using AI a lot, it will almost always try to generate meaning or interpretation unless you explicitly tell it not to. If you just give it a strange sentence, it assumes you want analysis, symbolism, or creative interpretation, so it builds meaning even if the sentence was originally intended to be semantically empty like the Chomsky example.

But if you change the instructions and frame the task differently for example by asking for factual linguistic analysis or saying “focus on data, structure, and known information” the output changes quite noticeably. The AI shifts toward explaining syntax, paradoxes, and linguistic principles instead of inventing poetic meaning.

That doesn’t mean the AI suddenly becomes objectively correct, because it’s still generating responses based on learned patterns and probabilities rather than true understanding. It just means that clearer constraints reduce ambiguity and push the model toward more analytical responses instead of imaginative ones.

So to me, this isn’t only about AI struggling with conceptualisation it’s also about how sensitive AI is to framing. The same input sentence can produce very different results depending on how you ask the question beforehand. In that sense, prompt clarity is almost part of the “interface” you need to learn when interacting with AI.

And honestly, that’s also why AI responses can sometimes sound very confident even when they’re interpretive rather than factual because by default it tries to be helpful by creating coherence.
 
Here's a guy that says AI has got pretty good at some things.


FWIW. I don't really have an opinion on the accuracy, but he sure does seem convincing.
 
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From the linked article above:

Most of us who work in AI are building on top of foundations we didn't lay.

it's like having a team of associates available instantly. He's not using it because it's a toy. He's using it because it works. And he told me something that stuck with me: every couple of months, it gets significantly more capable for his work. He said if it stays on this trajectory, he expects it'll be able to do most of what he does before long... and he's a managing partner with decades of experience. He's not panicking. But he's paying very close attention.

Amodei has said that AI models "substantially smarter than almost all humans at almost all tasks" are on track for 2026 or 2027.

This is different from every previous wave of automation, and I need you to understand why. AI isn't replacing one specific skill. It's a general substitute for cognitive work. It gets better at everything simultaneously. When factories automated, a displaced worker could retrain as an office worker. When the internet disrupted retail, workers moved into logistics or services. But AI doesn't leave a convenient gap to move into. Whatever you retrain for, it's improving at that too.

if a model shows even a hint of a capability today, the next generation will be genuinely good at it. These things improve exponentially, not linearly.

Will AI replicate deep human empathy? Replace the trust built over years of a relationship? I don't know. Maybe not. (that is 'hope' speaking) But I've already watched people begin relying on AI for emotional support, for advice, for companionship. That trend is only going to grow. (So in other words, will it replicate human empathy, replace trust etc etc....obviously, the answer is Yes.) { Words used properly can achieve unknown outcomes...Quote: Me}

Rethink what you're telling your kids. (or ask them what the go is.....most likely they will have an answer that will astound you)

Hang on to your socks folks ! ....it is sure to be a wild ride !

Question : What could this possibly mean for Linux.org ?
 
What could this possibly mean for Linux.org ?

It's not just this site; it's much of the entire web.

People will get (and are getting) correct responses to their Linux questions. They'll have fewer reasons to click through to a website. The AI will be faster. At some point in time, and in some places, AI is going to be better than we are.

We have a fairly steady amount of activity, averaged over time. It has been increasing a little, back to where it was before there was a bit of a dip in activity on this site. That may stabilize at a lower volume because AI is just being good enough to get them sorted.

But the AI probably isn't yet good enough to do some of the difficult troubleshooting. That's not the AI's fault. That's the fault of the person asking the questions while not knowing things like the correct terminology.

It also means fewer gatekeepers. I do not see that as a good thing. There will be fewer keepers of knowledge, as we settle on our favorite AI providers. Of course, the AI bots still need to be trained. So, they'll keep scraping the various sites and use that for training data.

The real crossing of the Rubicon will be when AI no longer needs external data to be trained. When AI can create its own training data, that will be even more game-changing.

Also, politics is off-limits. So, I'll only frame this as an 'economics' statement.

If AI puts that many people out of work, we're going to need something like UBI.

But, at the same time, we're hopefully moving towards a 'post-scarcity' society.
 


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