I just don't know anymore... :(

B

blackneos940

Guest
Sigh.... I know I've mentioned this before, but..... It bugs me!.... :( I just don't know..... I practice and practice with Python, C, Networking, etc., etc., and..... I can never seem to be able to make a Program, and every time I try to help out on GitHub, I just get overwhelmed and quit..... And when I try to help out HERE.....? I can't even do THAT..... :( I've been at this for over a YEAR now..... I didn't expect to be Coding Space Station guidance systems at this point, or even a real OS, but..... I'm approaching the end of this road FAST..... :( And the LAST thing I want to do is spend all of my time parroting Code, and never really CREATING something..... Should I just call it quits, before I end up wasting my Life on a fruitless pursuit.....?? :( Not that I'll stop using Linux, or leave this Forum, of course..... :) I LOVE you guys WAY too much for THAT to happen....... :3
 


The first thing I want to say is don't give up. Giving up never helps anyone.

I think you are trying to learn too many different languages and topics at one time. In fact, if you want to learn programming don't use a language at all. Use a pencil and paper to write pseudo code. Don't worry about the intricacies of a language. Consider a problem and come up with a solution in pseudo code. Consider all of the outcomes and find ways to break the code. Try this a bunch of times. It may not be as "fun" as using a language but it is more important. Once you get the hang of coming up with these "solutions" you can start to learn a langage and apply it. Only AFTER you have the pseudo code ready.

Flow charts are also extremely useful. https://www.draw.io/

As for helping out on Github...I spend most of my time on Github creating "issues" not creating my own code. I have actually been banned from one repository because I opened too many "issues" trying to get the authors to switch from a broken Java API....they were not very interested in improving their code on other platforms. :(
 
ryanvade said:
The first thing I want to say is don't give up. Giving up never helps anyone.

I think you are trying to learn too many different languages and topics at one time. In fact, if you want to learn programming don't use a language at all. Use a pencil and paper to write pseudo code. Don't worry about the intricacies of a language. Consider a problem and come up with a solution in pseudo code. Consider all of the outcomes and find ways to break the code. Try this a bunch of times. It may not be as "fun" as using a language but it is more important. Once you get the hang of coming up with these "solutions" you can start to learn a langage and apply it. Only AFTER you have the pseudo code ready.

Flow charts are also extremely useful. https://www.draw.io/

As for helping out on Github...I spend most of my time on Github creating "issues" not creating my own code. I have actually been banned from one repository because I opened too many "issues" trying to get the authors to switch from a broken Java API....they were not very interested in improving their code on other platforms. :(
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Had to reply on my Inspiron, which gets Warm, understandably, running a Browser, and being older and all, on TOP of it being Hot out (it's tha South, y'all.... :D), and also because Windows wound up into a BSOD loop, and I tried to install Debian, since Refreshing Windows basically means Reinstalling it..... Then Debian didn't install because of some package thingy, so I took my USB Recovery Drive I prepared just in case, and Reinstalled Windows..... :) But I.E. won't let me type on Linux.org (surprise, surprise.....) :\ So, here I am, waiting for the Windows 10 ISO to download..... Sigh, what a Night..... :( Anywho..... I won't give up....... :) That was just me getting Depressed, as I sometimes do..... :) But I'm serious.... :( It bugs me..... :( Y'know....? But.... That might be a good way to look into it..... Writing Pseudo-Code, eh.....? :) Ok, then..... I tend to save everything, so why don't I use Gedit or Kwrite instead.....?? :D But, to start....

#include <stdio.h>

#include <wireless_socket.h> //There's a Module like that, right.....? :3

int main(void)

{
int signal_trace;

signal_trace = "SSID1";

char[256];

char = packet_capture;

open file;

write data to file;

close;

}

Hmm..... Maybe it's the same approach as in Minetest or in Minecraft..... Maybe I need to do this Pseudo-Code thing instead for a while.....? It gives me hope these days..... :) And hope is rare..... Oh, I have lots of shiny toys, and should be HAPPY by America's standards.... But my Soul is withering, it seems..... Constant feelings of dread and/or hopelessness..... Losing interest in people..... But I'm not giving in.... It's like this voice keeps telling me to keep going, y'know.....? But to what end, I wonder..... Well, I guess you know how much I Love you all here..... :D I would NEVER have said that elsewhere..... Especially at that one Site I was a part of, where most of them hate Linux and FOSS Software, it seems....... Y'know..... The OS I'm using right now, Linux, was started despite seemingly insurmountable odds..... It survived endless criticism from Microsoft, and yet it kept going, to the point that now, Microsoft even held a party for a Debian Release....... Maybe I could learn a thing or two from that College kid who made that Kernel the year I was BORN!..... ;^) But this is for "General Computing", and it shows why I need to learn how to join you guys in the IRC..... :D According to Num3rs, I think it's a place where Hackers talk in l337 sp34k..... :D And on a side note..... :) I wouldn't worry about those guys locking you out of bringing up valid Issues on their Code..... :) It seems like they would be better suited to work for Microsoft, and stick to proprietary Programs..... :D By the way....... Which Repo WAS it......? I need to know, so I can avoid that Program..... ;D Ah..... Said there was a "Server Error", or something, and I couldn't Reply!..... :) Turns out I was still logged in in I.E., and had to log out!..... I forgot that even X-ing out the Tab doesn't remove the Cookies in I.E........ :3 Most Browsers need to be CONFIGURED to do that.... :D Hmm.... Nope... :\ Still had that error..... :\
 
Well I've been writing code for over 50 years now, and I've seen a few people get very frustrated. I think the secret to being a programmer is to get an irrational sense of accomplishment whenever anything works. To be a good programmer you have also need an irrational feeling of guilt whenever anyone else finds a bug in in your code but that's for later.

As stated by Ryan, pick a language, I'd recommend a simple one like maybe Python but it really doesn't matter until much later. Once you know how to program picking up a new language is just work, and practice.

Then pick a problem, something you find interesting or fills a need for you. It's going to take some time, but the way you really learn is by getting things done.

Then again to parrot Ryan, sit down with paper and pencil and figure out how to solve the problem. Once you have a solution pick the easiest part of it and get something to work.

Then you can start expanding on the "prototype" bit by bit. Each new piece of code once debugged will teach you the things you need to know.

When you get frustrated, don't kick the dog, yell at the wife or curl up in the fetal position and suck your thumb. Now comes the really hard part.

Figure out how to ask a good question short, to the point and clear. Include as little code as possible and post that to a forum. I find it very difficult to do that when I don't understand what I don't know. BUT countless times I get the question typed out and don't have to hit send, because the process produced the solution not someone else.

Good Luck!
Joe
 
areeda said:
Well I've been writing code for over 50 years now, and I've seen a few people get very frustrated. I think the secret to being a programmer is to get an irrational sense of accomplishment whenever anything works. To be a good programmer you have also need an irrational feeling of guilt whenever anyone else finds a bug in in your code but that's for later.

As stated by Ryan, pick a language, I'd recommend a simple one like maybe Python but it really doesn't matter until much later. Once you know how to program picking up a new language is just work, and practice.

Then pick a problem, something you find interesting or fills a need for you. It's going to take some time, but the way you really learn is by getting things done.

Then again to parrot Ryan, sit down with paper and pencil and figure out how to solve the problem. Once you have a solution pick the easiest part of it and get something to work.

Then you can start expanding on the "prototype" bit by bit. Each new piece of code once debugged will teach you the things you need to know.

When you get frustrated, don't kick the dog, yell at the wife or curl up in the fetal position and suck your thumb. Now comes the really hard part.

Figure out how to ask a good question short, to the point and clear. Include as little code as possible and post that to a forum. I find it very difficult to do that when I don't understand what I don't know. BUT countless times I get the question typed out and don't have to hit send, because the process produced the solution not someone else.

Good Luck!
Joe
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Well... I'm still single, but I DO have a Dog..... :3 I could NEVER kick him.... :( But I thank you for taking time out to do this, good sir...... :) You didn't even HAVE to..... And that sort of thing says VOLUMES to someone like me....... :3 Inventing Programs is a lot like playing Games like Minetest or Minecraft, the way I see it, thanks to you and ryanvade....... :D
 
I'm in a situation where I'm trying to apply my technical aptitude to learning a skill to maybe finally get a decent job even if I have to start as a freelancer. So I've decided programming could be a good start and possibly something like web developer down the road.

Python seems generally recommended for beginners and it's great that most Linux distributions include it by default. Many of them even come with IDLE.

I think blackneos940 saw my post-rant about the issues I've observed of trying to learn this stuff by using the sprawling mess of tutorials across the internet. Also, for some reason, these tutorials just seem inefficient and more like a show and tell. It's how I'd feel if I wanted to learn music and the instructor just jammed out on the guitar describing what they're doing and then handed the guitar to me.

I kind of feel like there is an element of Mentoring that is not quite there in terms of most available learning resources. Today, most Teaching feels instead like an information dump and I think this feels like trying to drink from a fire-hose of knowledge and can make people feel overwhelmed.

Another peculiar thing about tutorials is I don't feel like I get a good understanding of how these programming components work in the Context of a program. I have notes on While Loops and If, Else, Elif statements. Great, how would these things work together or where are they placed in a Python program? I guess it's left up to the individual to put these things together as needed, but it would be so much easier to get some guidance on this stuff.

Veterans of coding suggest finding a project which is a good point. Yet, it would be helpful for beginners to have an idea of what programming or a particular language is even capable of or what kind of project is good for a beginner. Someone starting out could easily pick a project idea that is very complex like video game design with 3D graphics.

With that said, I will say there is one resource I found that has tried to address my complaint about context at https://inventwithpython.com. These are free online books that explain concepts and include a small program demonstrating each programming concept.

I am also very curious about this course Real Python https://realpython.com. Yes, it costs money, but if I'm serious about learning the basics and working up to Web Developer, maybe a single comprehensive course is the way to go instead of trying to grab bits and pieces from many tutorials and put it all together.
 
Python is my newest language. I too tried the tutorials on the web and found them lacking what I needed.

Perhaps a more structured online course like https://www.coursera.org/course/pythonlearn would work better for you. that particular one doesn't start until October but I've done a few from Coursera and they are usually pretty good. Online learning is a big thing these days and I'm sure there are more out there.
 
What part of programming are you having problems with (i.e. syntax, logic, objects, structure, etc.)?

In my opinion, Python, JavaScript, Coffeescript, Lua, or Scala would be good choices for starting to learn programming. It also helps if you have a specific project you could work on. For instance, I learned Python very well when writing the code for Betabot. I had a project that I really enjoyed and wanted to complete. Also, the project gave me a reason to learn Python. You need a specific reason to learn and a project that provides you with something to practice with and give you motivation.

If you love gaming, then you might want to learn Lua. If you love interactive webpages (such as games), JavaScript would be a good choice. The first computer language learn is usually the hardest to learn. However, once you thoroughly understand computer logic and the general concept of programming languages, then it becomes easy. I know many programming languages (Lua, Scala, JavaScript, Python, etc.) and many non-programming computer languages (sed, awk, HTML, CSS, etc.).

NOTE: I have an article I will release soon that goes into details about the differences between a "programming language" and a "computer language". In summary, a "programming language" is used to make programs/applications while a "computer language" is any code read and used by a computer.

Here is a helpful site for learning programming, if you already understand the general concepts of programming - http://learnxinyminutes.com/

Try watching Youtube videos and reading books or online materials. Also, ask on forums about specific problems you are having or particular concepts that you do not understand.

Keep in mind that many programming languages are large and have numerous commands. You do not need to know every command, library, and module. Programming languages are like spoken languages (such as English). You know English, but not every single word and you may not understand gerunds or prepositional phrases. However, you still know English and do not give up using it or learning new words and English concepts as needed. Programming is the same way. Do not get overwhelmed about every little detail. Just learn the general syntax and common commands of the desired language and start there.

Learn more as needed. For instance, I know Python very well. However, at one point, I did not know how to program GUIs (such as GTK). Once I needed to learn, I learned the parts of GTK (PyGTK) that I needed to know. I did not try to learn all of it all at once, only what I needed for the project (the basics, buttons, menus, etc.). At the time, there would have been no point in trying to also learn Qt (GTK alternative) or GTK's advanced widgets like the calendar, color chooser, etc. However, once I needed to learn about GTK's color chooser, then it was easy because I had a need and all of the concepts in the documentation were clear because I could understand why some of the options and parameters were the way they were. (Then I made http://dcjtech.info/topic/color-kit/ ).

Also, if you read about a command and you are thinking "why do I need this or why would I ever use it?", do not worry yourself over it. Once you have a particular need, then it will "click" and all make perfect sense. Many commands and libraries are easier to understand once you need it. As an example, it is like explaining the term "school" to a toddler. Once they start school, then the term is understandable because they can relate it to it, visualize it, and experience school. Until then, they may not understand the concept of a place people go to for hours to learn. Alternatively, you may not understand the concept of "interest" (as in financing) and its equations. However, once you buy stocks or get a saving account, then it is easier to understand since the knowledge will be helpful and used.
 
DevynCJohnson said:
It also helps if you have a specific project you could work on. For instance, I learned Python very well when writing the code for Betabot. I had a project that I really enjoyed and wanted to complete.
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I'm generally interested in Python Development just as a means to get decent paying computer work. I'm just in a lousy situation being underemployed or unemployed. I think my 2 year degree in computer security is to specialized and I haven't been able to get steady work with it because that field demands lot's of experience and expensive certifications or a Bachelors.

So, I look around on Indeed.com and see demand for programmers or developers and get curious about trying that. I'm not sure though what kinds of problems Python Devs solve for companies, so I'm also not sure what would be a good Project I should focus on as a beginner to even get an idea of what this field is like.
 
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