ELF, among other meaningless communication barriers

[beanburrito]

I've been using Linux for over 12 years now and this is the first time I've ever heard the term "ELF" file.

Isn't it amazing what we can learn in one day?

 

[CaffeineAddict]

It's just hard to talk about this stuff because it's so far over most peoples heads we usually get labeled as "Elitists"

lol, I heard about the term but never bothered to learn what it means, did search for it now.

Definition of a Linux Elitist

I talk a lot about Linux elitists and how they are poisoning the Linux world and parts of the Free Software world, as well. Since “Linux Elitist” could mean a lot of things, I want to describe what I personally mean, when I use that term. A Linux Elitist is someone who… says “we have always...

itsfoss.community

These points are funny, I don't fit all of them but I wouldn't care if somebody label me elitist, I really enjoy learning stuff about IT.

I believe one can be elitist but polite person, what some people probably don't like is elitists who project their elitism so that it's visible, e.g. bragging about this or that or insulting anyone who knows less.

 

[AlphaObeisance]

I've been tinkering with systems in various incarnations since the 1970's. Linux since the 1990's. I'm slowly moving my systems away from Linux, except for a few simple use cases, but it's been a delightful journey. Honestly, I had more fun with systems back in the 1980s/1990s.

After such a season in the Linux realm; I can sympathize with that. Especially when so much of the development has geared towards ease of use and eye candy (admittedly, I'm not complaining). That said, I'm a prime example of the modern age user who's striving to one day be standing in shoes like yours.

I'm 36 years old. I've never picked up a book on Linux, IT, Coding, Sysadmin or anything else. I just started reading the Arch Linux wiki and googling my tail off. Yet today, I've fumbled my way into building a Tier 2 enterprise grade server having build all of my own servers from scratch.

While the rest of the linux world was busy telling me "You can't do that with Nvidia, You should go with AMD" I was more focused on "I'm going to make it work anyway" and to this day I chuckle at "advanced" users that don't understand the basics and opt for a cop out response or default to philosophy jargon. The same kind of people who can't comprehend why I wanted to learn how to build my own SQL databases for my servers so that in the event something goes wrong, I know how to interface with the systems rather than just "using docker" to deploy a full stack I'd have no idea how to manage.

Someone once called me an "absolute unit" because I managed to deploy a fully functional gitea server from scratch out of nothing more than sheer determination and self reliant resourcefulness. This is why most of my offenses don't come from an "elitist" mindset, but from a mindset that when a veteran just tells me to take the easy route, I feel like the very spirit of what I'm striving to be is dying before I can even attain it.

It feels like everyone in IT is just giving up because it's all become so convenient. But make no mistake, if even only me; I'm still here. I'm still interested. I still want to understand. And the single most discouraging thing about my experience trying to master Linux is that it seems all anyone ever wants to do is talk about their tribalism without any regard or care to the fundamental understanding.

People puff their chests up because they know how to use a system that utilizes custom repos? Ugh. I need to walk away because I can feel my spirit crumbling as I force myself to acknowledge the core of my inspiration hangs on by a thread and the majority of linux "passion" consists of who prepackages the most convenience.

 

[beanburrito]

I believe one can be elitist but polite person, what some people probably don't like is elitists who project their elitism so that it's visible, e.g. bragging about this or that or insulting anyone who knows less.

Indeed. What frustrates me the most is when people don't know something, you provide the information, and they swat it away for various reasons, one of them being, "the documentation is too old." So what? Or they want you to 'prove' something to them instead of them kindly taking a recommendation and investigating themselves. And my favorite, "watch my 2 hour video instead of reading this 10 minute text."

The base skill of reading is becoming a dying art.

 

[beanburrito]

It feels like everyone in IT is just giving up because it's all become so convenient. But make no mistake, if even only me; I'm still here. I'm still interested. I still want to understand. And the single most discouraging thing about my experience trying to master Linux is that it seems all anyone ever wants to do is talk about their tribalism without any regard or care to the fundamental understanding.

I suppose it all comes down to where you obtain your information and who you speak with. You're a curious, intelligent person, you want to learn and most importantly, you can teach yourself!

Many people are tribal because they are bland human beings, the kind who believe when their local sports team wins, they accomplished something. Tribalism. I believe I read an excellent post of yours regarding tribes/distro flavors and what not.

The key is to surround yourself with people smarter than you! The only thing I know is that I know nothing and I try and buddy up with people who are actually intelligent and it takes some time to deconstruct what many of them have to say! Especially those who are neck beards who have been involved in Comsec/emsec and play with hardware at an intimate level. A alot of them ex-mil/gov. types.

But as you've observed, at the surface it's brand loyalty and tribalism. It's the same for politics, which I won't inject into the discussion because it's against the rules. (thankfully!)

 

[CaffeineAddict]

I'm 36 years old. I've never picked up a book on Linux, IT, Coding, Sysadmin or anything else.

You really should learn at least 1 language perfectly.
Not any crap, depends on what's your objective ofc.

A lot of stuff becomes very easy when you understand how software or web is made from zero with nothing else but a blank file.

With a good book learning is easy and fast.
I tend to forget what I read online, however I didn't forget a single thing learned from book, it stays with me even though I'm no longer using it.

 

[AlphaObeisance]

The key is to surround yourself with people smarter than you! The only thing I know is that I know nothing and I try and buddy up with people who are actually intelligent and it takes some time to deconstruct what many of them have to say! Especially those who are neck beards who have been involved in Comsec/emsec and play with hardware at an intimate level. A alot of them ex-mil/gov. types.

Honestly this is all I've ever tried to do. The very friend who introduced me to the server world recently reached out to me indicating that he aims to bring me on board for some form of SysAdmin gig managing some high profile servers. He's been in the game for some 30+ years and has for some reason, very early on, been incredibly supportive of my passions.

His offer is exactly what i've been striging for all these years. I desire to submerse myself in on prem sysadmin while it's still relevant so to surround myself by individuals that really know what they're doing; not just know how to install the latest flashy distro or desktop environment but fundamentally comprehend how the systems work.

The only thing I really know is "how to make the things to do the things" I just can't explain how that works; and that genuinely infuriates me. Just because you can make something work, doesn't mean you understand it.

It's this internal battle that keeps me riddled with Imposter Syndrome on a day to day basis. It's not until I start reading new users threads that I'm reminded that I'm not entirely incompetent. I figure a thirst for knowledge will ideally make me an "expert" one day, though I think that label is vanity at best. I just want to be able to "understand" the "how". But, I'm horrible at mathematics, I literally don't comprehend mathematics much beyond a pre-algebra level and as embarrassing as that is to say, it's the truth.

I often wonder how far I could go if I could some how connect the dots on basic mathematics instead of just driving by intuition. If nothing else, I'm a testament to my own volition.

You really should learn at least 1 language perfectly.
Not any crap, depends on what's your objective ofc.

A lot of stuff becomes very easy when you understand how software or web is made from zero with nothing else but a blank file.

With a good book learning is easy and fast.
I tend to forget what I read online, however I didn't forget a single thing learned from book, it stays with me even though I'm no longer using it.

I was a "stupid" person for most of my life. It wasn't until discovering linux that I really read much of anything; ever. Unfortunately, I've never been "book smart". I only seem to be capable of learning through doing, over, and over, and over, and over; until it finally works.

 

[beanburrito]

[...]

You're still very young. Relax and enjoy the ride.

 

[Condobloke]

Just to give everyone here a well-intentioned nudge, the OP's initial post was:

Thread 'ELF, among other meaningless communication barriers'

May 17, 2026

Based on the use of stuff like ELF etc in posts.... which may only be known by the poster and a few others with experience/knowledge of that particular 'thing'

This rule may be a welcome addition. Which form it may be introduced in is up for grabs, but the gist is this:

"" When posting, please use proper grammar. Refrain from 'text-message' style substitutions of words like 'u' for 'you', and 'ur' for 'your'. This is a multi-national forum, and some of our non-english speaking members must use...

• Condobloke

• 
• 
• 

 

[beanburrito]

Just to give everyone here a well-intentioned nudge, the OP's initial post was:

We know, we've read the litany of woes. It's been discussed to death, we get the point. We're having a discussion if you'd care to join in it would be most nice.

The actual parent thread is here, which got derailed but eventually spun around to the original intent.

 

[KGIII]

A user posited that this thread has run its course. I'm inclined to agree. As there's not much chance of this turning into a very productive thread, let's just learn something new -- even if that 'something' is that not everyone knows everything, and that some people may actually try to avoid jargon.

It doesn't matter. It doesn't even change your ability to use Linux. Some folks only know what they care to know, which is 100% true for each and every single one of us.