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Advice on what system to go for as just a DeskTop operation

Discussion in 'General Linux' started by LxCeeAB, Jul 19, 2017.

  1. LxCeeAB

    LxCeeAB Member

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    Now my dilemma is on desktop 531s attempting to install Kubuntu v16.04.2 LTS and want to remove Ubuntu v16.04.02 LTS or replace it with this other version Kubuntu Still want to dual boot with Win7 SP1, this is all for testing purposes to see how things will be going. Not any selection for replacing a nonfunctioning O/S. Unless the Manual mode will do it with some HELP!


     
  2. wizardfromoz

    wizardfromoz Well-Known Member

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    Just a holding post, as have "a meal" to prepare.

    If, in the Kubuntu install, when it gets to the choice of how to install, you choose "other", it will lead you through the partitioner function, and you can choose to install the Kubuntu over the other Distro and format it at the same time, which will effectively erase the previous Distro.

    Also, I will put together a brief video on how to extend that choice of timing at boot up, back with it next 24.

    Thanks, BTW for the very interesting post from my blog, I won't go off-Topic here, but will respond shortly.

    Have a good Wednesday

    Wizard
    BTW have 6 spots to fill with Distros on this unit, will put Kubuntu 16.04 on as one of them, to assist.
     
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  3. LxCeeAB

    LxCeeAB Member

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    "MrPicky,"

    Thank you for the previous post, explanations of why you may not give a full report at any given point in time is not necessary. You have your life to live, as I and all other's of the World. Just a "be back when possible" is good enough for me, I am not like others that want to know all the things going on in your life, even when you take a deep breath. My philosophy is; 'live and let live as is needed' not a need to know everything that you do nor need to. Do what you need and maintain the very best health you can and I will be pleased and happy for you.

    Upon the laptop found the place from the desktop to add another user. The laptop is coming along slowly but doing very well from my point of view.

    Not doing many, USERS, as my partner cannot do a keyboard nor read the screen, she looks at it on occasion, but; just ignores it. She is a five (5) lb Yorkshire Terrier and is very intelligent. She has learned enough words I use with her that she will respond appropriately. Enough of my personal life, this is getting too far off TOPIC.
     
    #23 LxCeeAB, Jul 26, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
  4. LxCeeAB

    LxCeeAB Member

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    Friends & fellow Linuxers, even though you know more than myself, lend me your EYEs and read what is here as this is the TRUTH! IMHO any way!

    Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Ubuntu Mint, I feel those that are derivatives of Ubuntu have an issue with the software for displaying file folders or system settings, et cetera; of those listed at the start of this paragraph all are 64 bit and "LTS" that I have tried and they all FREEZE after they have started and have been in operation for five (5) to fifteen (15) minutes, even using the 'Test Drive' feature. The install is where it first was shown using Ubuntu16.04.2 LTS.

    The Ubuntu Mint "Sonya" v18.2 LTS i386/x86/32 bit. so you understand the differences. This last one (Mint) was installed on a Dell Inspiron E1705 purchased used from Salvation Army and feel it is in the neighborhood of 25 - 30 years old and it worked PERFECTLY FINE. I was even able to create a second user account without the NEED to bother you here on the FORUMS, THANK YOU so Very MUCHLY for being there if needed.

    This is going to be as short as possible so you do not need to read all KNIGHT! YES! I have been doing much testing and learning what NOT to do and what can be done, some what. NOW the one that is my RECOMMENDATION for you to use to HELP another get stated on LINUX software, you may not agree with me, but;that is fine with me. PCLINUXOS v2017.07 do not know if there is any "LTS" attached never did see any. Have used "KDE" as well as "MATE" and they both work just fine on my "Dell Inspiron 531s" and dual booting with Win7 Home Premium SP1 with all updates through the months until I started looking into Linux again after a little over 20 years. If thee are any questions or just curiosity you may ask and will be provided what I know or can find to answer you to my best. Please understand I am very happy and satisfied with the assistance given and am not leaving this forum. Will still be available to you and/or any other that may ask questions I may have an answer.

    Once again if I may? THANK YOU ! ! That is about all I can afford to do for support of your venture until able to do more.

    Edited by LxCeeAB to correct Mint's version.
     
    #24 LxCeeAB, Jul 27, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017
  5. wizardfromoz

    wizardfromoz Well-Known Member

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    WIZARD’S GLOSSARY

    OP

    • The Original Poster in this Thread, also

    • The Original Post by the OP, that is #1
    PCLOS – PC Linux OS (Operating System), an RPM-based Distro with a twist or three, derives from Mandriva, which was a marriage of Mandrake and Connectiva. Unlike Mandriva, it has forsaken the “urpmi” updates and package manager tool, and uses Synaptic Package Manager for update installs. It also does not use “sudo” for granting of elevated privileges, rather, just “su” and no password requirements are fewer, and use the Root password. Be wary.



    WIZARD’S RECOMMENDED READING



    TO ALL INTERESTED IN RPM-BASED DISTROS

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rpm_(software)


    TO ALL INTERESTED IN PCLINUXOS

    http://pclosmag.com/html/issues/201002/page02.html#top

    10 Beginner Mistakes to Avoid

    http://pclosmag.com/html/Issues/201303/page02.html

    Fine tune your PCLOS (PCLinuxOS)


    @LxCeeAB


    Although you have indicated you have had experience with Linux over 20 years ago, a lot has changed since then, and whilst I applaud your enthusiasm, you may be moving a little too fast to be able to acquaint yourself with the differences between, not just Distros, but Distro “Families” as I call them.


    A non-exhaustive list of these includes:

    • Debian-based – Ubuntu & Linux Mint are examples

    • RPM-based – Red Hat, Fedora, OpenSUSE, and PCLinuxOS are examples

    • Arch-based – Manjaro is an example

    • Gentoo-based – Sabayon is an example

    • Slackware-based – includes some Puppy Linux (don’t hit me, Paul)
    Any number of these Distros share similar commands and protocols, but there are very many where the differences are like yawning chasms. And so (yes, I have started a sentence with a conjunction, bad Wizard) the User needs to be aware that oranges and lemons are similar, but different. Try sucking a lemon.


    Your latest venture, PCLOS has no LTS (Long Term Support) feature. It is a Rolling Release. That means, broadly, that you do not have to upgrade to a newer version. Updated software is released when it is ready and not to a schedule.


    I can cover a whole lot more of this, perhaps as an appropriately-named thread, if there is interest. I have to check first that I am not reinventing the wheel, as I have only been here fulltime since 1st May.

    Cheers

    Wizard


    BTW – as circumstances would have it, I have recently installed PCLOS on two of my computers, so I may be of some assistance with questions on it, but I am new to it. Took me two years to get a successful install (various reasons) when I was trying to get PC LinuxOS “The Full Monty”, and then when I decided to gird my loins for battle again … they discontinued the “flavour” of it. So I got 2017.


    I would however advocate as a general rule of thumb “try before you buy”, and that is where Atanere and I (& many others) endorse the use of Live media to run the Distro and see if it suits you and your machine’s configuration, before a full install.
     
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  6. LxCeeAB

    LxCeeAB Member

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    That is all I ever expected and attempt to use straight forward with respect.

    #1 as you have noticed there is SUCCESS with PCLinuxOS, NO freezing nor locking up where the POWER SWITCH is your ONLY control to recover from the FREEZE.

    Plus the layout and as you mentioned some 'Mandrake' appearances are there that is the Desktop that I was very familiar with. Along with the "RPMs" that am familiar with, have not gone that far into 'PCLOS' yet to know if still being used. The above message, format and information is the BEST seen and to the point. Main point is the connection of the Distros is most important as you can tell from my previous message where my issue is shown in all that were tested were based from the same primary. Did not care for the Kubuntu because it looks to be keyed or aimed mostly for Kids or children, layout and desktop backgrounds also gave me that impression. The end of this part.

    Question: Still being in Windows how would one go about installing any or all Distros that would or could be placed on a 'Mini SD card' of appropriate size do not need be only Windows can also be for usage in any Linux, preferred Linux, I have several of 15gig. Would like to use that as my medium for using the software on any computer available to me. Just plug in the SD Card and Execute, that way do not need to transfer preferred settings to each and every one. They will all come up the same. That is a little involved so will save any other for another thread. Bold above is also an edit by LxCeeAB within this last paragraph.
     
    #26 LxCeeAB, Jul 27, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017
  7. atanere

    atanere Moderator
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    Hello again... finally, some days off from work. :D

    Well, y'all are jumping around a lot, and I don't really find too much that I can add to the discussion right now. Wizard's last post was an excellent brief summary of the current state of Linux distro's. I have played with PCLOS a bit also and it is a super nice distro.... it's a great choice if it works on your hardware (while Ubuntu-based distros seem to fail you).

    I'm not sure I quite understand your question about using an SD card. You can indeed install Linux on SD, but you have to boot on it, so your computer has to be capable of that. Some older computers cannot. Also, you cannot boot an SD card while Windows is running (but you can run Linux on a virtual machine inside Windows).

    With care (and a large SD card), I think you could install multiple Linux distros on it, and you would also set a common /home partition that each distro would share. This would be more commonly done on a large USB external hard drive though, and then you could take it from computer to computer and always run your own OS'es as long as the computer would boot on it. I would also use simple partitioning methods to try this... no encryption and no LVM's... just simple ext4 format that all distros should easily work with.

    Again, @wizardfromoz will know much more about multi-booting in this manner than I do, and this would make for a good new thread topic.
     
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  8. LxCeeAB

    LxCeeAB Member

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    Hey "MrMod." atanere.

    I may have been jumping around in my attempts to find ONE (1) that works on my systems. There is only one regret with "PCLOS" is there is not a 32bit distro for my laptop test bed. Just to share a bit with you, have been communicating with WizardOfOz on his blog site, a bit off topic to share with him some of my background and experiences. Maybe make his posts easier to do and for me to be able to read and utilize.

    My second post, above, of 18 July, 2017 gives some details why I felt there was an issue with Ubuntu and any distro using Ubuntu as a basic operating system. The PCLOS, being only 64bit is preventing an install on a 32bit O/S as assistance to my operation, NOT a stopper just a difficulty. NOT asking for them to work on one, just making a comment. I feel the 32bit is on it's way out. I did get MINT "Sonya" v18.2 LTS installed and works without that FREEZE issue.

    I know it can be installed on an 'SD' card and my systems will boot from USBs. Do I just copy from the DVD to the 'SD'? OR is there a method of creating the bootable one from the ISO? I know we need to place specific other files on it first, just do not remember what, to make it bootable.
     
  9. LxCeeAB

    LxCeeAB Member

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    YES sir will get to that ASAP! It is so long ago that was done, creating bootable floppies, actually stated with 5.25" floppies then went into the 3.5" ones then usbs (never did one of the), it seems to gone the way of of of whatever.
     
  10. atanere

    atanere Moderator
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    Yes, you're right... 32-bit support is disappearing, and that will continue. It's just like those 3.5" and 5.25" floppies that aren't used anymore. I used to work on a Texas Instruments industrial scale system that used 8" floppies... ah, the memories! :eek::D I have some old 32-bit desktops too. They work great with Linux and 2 GB of RAM. But it's hard to even give them away now.

    Installing Linux onto and booting a SD card is not as easy as it seems. I Googled around for a bit on that this evening and learned that by far the easy way to go for portable operation is to use USB sticks which are plentiful and cheap. You may can use a "SD card reader" if it is also a USB adapter (something like this), but I don't think that's what you have in mind. Your built-in SD card reader, like on a laptop, is not likely to be recognized by BIOS as a bootable device, and this is a show-stopper.
     
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  11. LxCeeAB

    LxCeeAB Member

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    atanere,

    Thank you for this information. Have heard of the 8" size never did I see any. One computer controled system I had to deal with had two (2) free standing about chest high 24" diameter and about four (4) platter disc drives along with punched card readers. That was back in late 1976 - 77 time period, do not even remember manufacturer, maybe CDI. Had not thought of them in many a year. Card reader by Spyker shown on this link:

    http://uk.spyker-france.com/products/index/id/22/description/external-card-readers
    is fourth (4th) one down and is white with three (3) card slots and three (3) USB slots and can use external power but not required.
    CST: 0100 07/28/2017 Edited by LxCeeAB do not go to DCST
     
    #31 LxCeeAB, Jul 28, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017
  12. wizardfromoz

    wizardfromoz Well-Known Member

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    Hi. just me trundling through with my one Post for the night/day, been road-tripping and I am exhausticated (yeah I know, makeup word ... I'm buggered) - you guys go to bed too late.

    One word ... Etcher https://etcher.io/

    I'm downloading it as I write. Atanere is slightly over-crediting me as I have not used SD cards as a medium, yet. Etcher burns to USB sticks and to SD cards, and is cross-platform ... Windows, Macintosh & Linux. Just press the default dropdown button and you can choose 32-bit 64-bit &c. 59MB is what has just finished.

    Another one word is the command

    Code:
    dd
    ... used at Terminal, very powerful (nicknamed the Data Destroyer), burns to USB, SD, basically any burnable medium.

    Don, give us an update on what Linuxes and Windows you have actually operating on which of Larry Curly & Moe (the three computers), maybe use the dot point/bullet button, and then I can keep track and tailor something that suits your needs (I know you gave Kubuntu the flick, but flesh out the rest for me).

    Cheers all, will play with Etcher after grocery shopping tomorrow morning.

    avagudweegend

    Wiz
     
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  13. LxCeeAB

    LxCeeAB Member

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    Whizy,

    Actually very rarely do I go to sleep, maybe cat knap about half an hour totaling to maybe two (2) hours.

    Will get to this later today, 28 July, '17, THANK YOU in BUNCHES!
     
  14. LxCeeAB

    LxCeeAB Member

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    Whizy,

    Have downloaded:' Etcher-1.1.1-win32-x64-portable.exe,' 'etcher-1.1.1-linux-x64.zip.' not sure about this one:' etcher-1.1.1-x86_64.AppImage,' thought they were all '*.zip' files. I C that first one is a Windows executable.

    Have setup the first one (win32-x64) with a Icon on my desktop of my OptiPlex 960, (Moe) Primary Internet Access (PIA), WITHOUT any Linux, for now. Inspiron 531s (Larry) has only Win7 SP1 Home Premium (with Win Updates to about a month ago, that to be done yet), awaiting the install of PCLinuxOS "Mate" v2017.07 (both desktops) (desktop) and later on "KDE" (desktop), then the Inspiron E1705 x86 (oldie but goodie) has Linux Mint v18.2 "Sonya" with SU & RegUsr setup. Neither one of the last two (2) systems have any internet access at this time, the 531s just needs NIC cable to be connected through Win. Holding off until I am satisfied all is going well. If you have difficulty understanding any of this let me know.

    @ this very time am a little hesitant to go any further with this work, had a very unexpected POWER loss lasting about five (5) minutes, maybe tomorrow to see if any more take place. We have this issue infrequently. Just a little nervous about that for now.
     
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  15. atanere

    atanere Moderator
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    Hey all,

    Just installed Etcher... never heard of it before, but it's a very nice tool for burning an .iso file to a SD or USB. Thanks for the tip on that, Wizard!

    But burning the image to SD and booting on it are different things. As I mentioned above, BIOS (or UEFI in newer computers) is what dictates what will boot and what will not. So here is the report from my experiment:

    Installed Slackware MATE to a SD card with Etcher. Worked beautifully, but I don't think that it will prepare the SD card for a UEFI system. I don't think any of @LxCeeAB's computers have UEFI, so that may not be a problem for him right now, but you might want to keep that in mind (unless there is a setting for UEFI which I did not see).

    My desktop computer is BIOS, but it would not recognize the SD and boot. Failed.
    Laptop #1 is UEFI but set to "Legacy Mode". It detected the SD card and booted Slackware. Passed.
    Laptop #2 is UEFI and set to "Secure Boot". It did not detect the SD card. Failed.
    Laptop #2 changed Secure Boot to Legacy Mode, but it still did not detect the SD card. Failed.

    So, 2 out of 3 computers that have built-in SD card readers failed to boot on SD media. This is why USB is so much more reliable to use for booting a portable Linux, but even then... really old computers will not boot USB either. The Plop boot manager can sometimes solve the USB boot problem by booting Plop on a CD and it will transfer the boot to USB, but their website does not mention that might be possible for SD also.
     
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  16. atanere

    atanere Moderator
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    Oops, I meant to also mention how you install that "AppImage" file in Linux. Open up a terminal where the file is located and give the following command:

    Code:
    ./etcher-1.1.1-x86_64.AppImage install
    And if you haven't learned "tab completion" yet... now is a good time. So rather than type that command above, instead start typing ./et and then hit the Tab key and it should finish printing the entire file name. Then type the space and the word install and hit enter. You may have already noticed that CNTL-V doesn't usually work to Paste into a terminal, but you can highlight and CNTL-C to copy the command and then use the Edit/Paste menu of the terminal.

    That's it. It should now have a menu entry... in my Linux Mint it was located in the "Other" category.

    Hope that helps.
     
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  17. LxCeeAB

    LxCeeAB Member

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    "MrMod, atanere,"

    You have been an EXTREME help beyond imagination. Thank YOU for this post as it will assist more than you can even think of. As I had posted earlier, my time for doing my latest work will be put off until tomorrow as my power situation is unknown at this time. It is up, just not sure how stable yet. Give it an overniter to see if it will stay STABLE.
     
  18. wizardfromoz

    wizardfromoz Well-Known Member

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    I'll leave it until the OP reports back on availability of good power to comment further, so that he can apply any info that helps.

    Thanks heaps, atanere, for that feedback on Etcher, I will take it for a run this afternoon, and thanks to the OP for the update on the 3 Stooges, lol.

    avagudweegend

    Wizard
     
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  19. atanere

    atanere Moderator
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    Let me correct myself... and not for the last time, I'm sure! :eek::D

    Etcher DID seem to set the SD card to UEFI boot on Slackware. Oops, my fault there. So when it booted the UEFI laptop I am not really sure whether it was a UEFI boot or Legacy boot (since the UEFI was set to Legacy).

    But one other test, another failure, was Laptop #3 that is BIOS based. It does not detect the SD card.

    Still playing, still learning here too. That's what it's all about. :D
     
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  20. LxCeeAB

    LxCeeAB Member

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    "MrMod, atanere,"

    Edited : error: v had a '4' and changed to what you see there now. by LxCeeAB.
    My BIOS in 531s (Larry) gives me the ability to reorganize the boot sequence/w four (4) to select from. Until things are finished with install the CD/DVD ROM R/W is first, second is my USB (SD MicroMini Card) of 15gig, third is removable (not sure what that is in reference), fourth is installed H/D/w Win7 installed.

    My other desktop, 960 with Win7 SP1 Professional, has UEFI and do not remember how it is set at this time. This one is where I do this posting on the net.

    Am only working with my 531s at this time, still not too sure about the power yet, do not think any power outages will do any great damage with my testing today. There is a MENU on the DVD (PCLINUXOS) first time I ran it but could not read it as it just flashed on my screen. Went ahead with that boot because was not intending to install just getting familiar. Have not found any data on the menu, it reads as follows:

    Live - CD
    Live - NO BOOT SPLASH
    VIDEO Safe mode - VESA
    SAFE boot
    Console
    Copy to RAM
    Install PCLINUXOS

    Boot options (with different folder and files [paths] for each of the above selectables)

    The only one I understand and have looked into is the bottom, PCLINUXOS. Have looked over the layout of the drives and partitions, understand somewhat, am now going to see if my "SD Card" will be listed this time. Later....

    My usual last point, still not getting an email when any posts are made to this thread.
     
    #40 LxCeeAB, Jul 29, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2017

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