OP
AlexOceanic
Member
Thanks LB
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Nightmare on boot street...
- Thread starter AlexOceanic
- Start date
@AlexOceanic :-
Well; certainly Blender's always run very well under Puppy. One of our members - actually, our sole active Russian member (poor sod lives very close to the war zone) - has also managed to get Dust3D working in Puppy, too. This is another 3D modelling tool, which I believe produces files that Blender is quite happy to work with, so.....there's another 'bonus' for ya.
We don't bother installing Blender from the repos at all. We simply go to the Blender website and download the Linux tarball. Decompressed, it's a self-contained directory; just click on the launcher script within, and away she goes..... Hardware detection is first rate under Linux.
I've always loved the fact that with Puppy, out of my 32 GB RAM, I get around 95% of that for my own use, to do what I want with. You can't say that about many distros, even so.
Mike.
Well; certainly Blender's always run very well under Puppy. One of our members - actually, our sole active Russian member (poor sod lives very close to the war zone) - has also managed to get Dust3D working in Puppy, too. This is another 3D modelling tool, which I believe produces files that Blender is quite happy to work with, so.....there's another 'bonus' for ya.
We don't bother installing Blender from the repos at all. We simply go to the Blender website and download the Linux tarball. Decompressed, it's a self-contained directory; just click on the launcher script within, and away she goes..... Hardware detection is first rate under Linux.
I've always loved the fact that with Puppy, out of my 32 GB RAM, I get around 95% of that for my own use, to do what I want with. You can't say that about many distros, even so.
Mike.
OP
AlexOceanic
Member
That sounds very encouraging re: the graphics apps running well and thanks for all the info - I think you've sold me on Puppy now (providing I can get the thing installed - I'm even considering burning a live cd image at this point!).@AlexOceanic :-
Well; certainly Blender's always run very well under Puppy. One of our members - actually, our sole active Russian member (poor sod lives very close to the war zone) - has also managed to get Dust3D working in Puppy, too. This is another 3D modelling tool, which I believe produces files that Blender is quite happy to work with, so.....there's another 'bonus' for ya.
We don't bother installing Blender from the repos at all. We simply go to the Blender website and download the Linux tarball. Decompressed, it's a self-contained directory; just click on the launcher script within, and away she goes..... Hardware detection is first rate under Linux.
I've always loved the fact that with Puppy, out of my 32 GB RAM, I get around 95% of that for my own use, to do what I want with. You can't say that about many distros, even so.
Mike.
Yes its a terrible situation at the moment - why is everyone throwing fuel on the fire instead of brokering peace talks? Almost makes you think someone is using war as a distraction from something but of course they'd never do that again...
32 GB of RAM?!?
I'm guessing most of your instructions complete before you've even let go of the Enter key - lol
OP
AlexOceanic
Member
I was just looking at your portable browsers and wondered what "Ungoogled_Chromium-portable" means in the sense, does it still call any google services etc or is that just Android I'm thinking off where they've coerced most app dev's to use Google Apps which are ten required for the apps to function?@AlexOceanic :-
Graphics apps, video editing.....'kay; can you be a bit more specific?
Recommending a Puppy would normally be easy, but ATM, the current 'flagship', Fossapup64 is being spun-off in half a dozen different directions. It's difficult to know just what TO recommend..!
You could always take a look at the new 'project' Puppies, the 'Kennel Linux' series. These have been under development for well over a year, and the most developed build, the Void Linux-based KLV "Airedale" - sporting the XFCE/Thunar combo - could well be what you want insofar as a 'clean' desktop goes.
You can find the current thread of this here. It's currently at rc10.1 - rc11 is in the works - so almost ready for 'prime-time'.
KLV-Airedale-rc10.1 with Void Linux Kernel 6.1.8_1 - Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
forum.puppylinux.com
Just a suggestion, like. The best bit about them, from MY point of view, is that almost the entire range of 'portable' browsers & other apps I've developed for Puppy itself also appear to be fully functional here, too. Which makes it super quick'n'easy to populate with apps and get fully-functional in very short order.
Mike.
I'm just thinking about my learnings on de-googled Android phones like LineageOS where you can install things like MicroG to replace GApps but it still calls Google services to run so I'm not sure what the point is other than hiding your identity - it still gives them useful activity data on a global scale.
Have you created an apk of this browser that can be downloaded by any chance?
I'd rather have something built by a genuine coder not working in big techs interests either way tbh.
OP
AlexOceanic
Member
Well shiver me timbers - it only bloody worked!@AlexOceanic :-
Well; certainly Blender's always run very well under Puppy. One of our members - actually, our sole active Russian member (poor sod lives very close to the war zone) - has also managed to get Dust3D working in Puppy, too. This is another 3D modelling tool, which I believe produces files that Blender is quite happy to work with, so.....there's another 'bonus' for ya.
We don't bother installing Blender from the repos at all. We simply go to the Blender website and download the Linux tarball. Decompressed, it's a self-contained directory; just click on the launcher script within, and away she goes..... Hardware detection is first rate under Linux.
I've always loved the fact that with Puppy, out of my 32 GB RAM, I get around 95% of that for my own use, to do what I want with. You can't say that about many distros, even so.
Mike.
Currently speaking to you from a live session of KLV-Airedale booted from the Live USB ISO that Disks actually flagged as "bootable" (screenshot).
I went a bit "manual" on it all and decided to use Disks to delete the three Fedora 37 partitions on the USB ISO first - when I flashed the Pup ISO it just created the one (bootable) partition with a single ISO as expected (screenshot 2).
I'm going to look more seriously into understanding the USB storage persistence feature although I want to install this on the HDD now so that the OS isn't sitting in the RAM - I can always update the files onto my usb and sync it with any new work I do on the HDD installed instance.
Now I should finally be able to delete the three Fed 36 partitions on the HDD and install Puppy in its place whilst updating GRUB2 to GRUB4 (I guess if anyone knows how to override GRUB2 its the folks who made GRUB4!).
Is there a good/official install guide you could point me to please as not quite sure which option to choose from the GRUB menu or if you can do it from within this RAM session etc?
I'm guessing you select the second option pointing to RAM1 rather than RAM0?
Thanks again
Attachments
@AlexOceanic :-
Well now; that's a bunch of questions and NO mistake. Let's see if I can answer 'em in a way that makes some kinda sense.
Ungoogled Chromium - Um; it's exactly what it says. I take it you're aware that the Chromium Project is sponsored by Google, yes? They set it up at the same time as Chrome itself in Autumn 2007, releasing the source-code as open-source to forestall any accusations of proprietary considerations from the global community.....remember, this was around the end of the 'browser wars' when Internet Explorer was beginning to finally lose its dominance.
The Project is essentially Google's browser R & D department; it's where all the new ideas and cutting-edge stuff is trialled from the global dev community that's grown up around it. It's always built against the very newest dependencies available. The Project runs what amounts to a fleet of semi-autonomous "build-bots", churning out build after build of Chromium 24/7, as new commits are slip-streamed into the code-base literally as they arrive. As soon as a "stable" release is available, Google take the code-base, add their own proprietary APIs and other bit's & bobs, re-compile it against a rather older build environment, badge it as Chrome and make it available for general release.
Why it's re-compiled is quite simple; Google aren't stupid.....they know a lot of people don't constantly run the very newest versions of everything, and if left to their own devices probably wouldn't bother updating at all. This makes the browser available to a much wider 'customer-base', and keeps their browser's ratings as high as possible.
--------------------
Ungoogled Chromium came about because a whole bunch of folks got fed-up with "Big Brother's" all-pervasive nosiness, and decided to do something about it.....the more so since the code-base is freely available for anyone to build on top of.....leading to Iron, Vivaldi, Opera, Slimjet, Brave, etc, etc. They're all Chromiun-based. Essentially, here every link with Google has been severed, and all Google-specific APIs have been removed. This makes it 'interesting' trying to install extensions from the Chrome App Store, for instance, although there is a way round this.
However, the browser doesn't report back to Google in any way, shape or form. You'd be surprised just how popular it's become over the last few years!
No, I haven't built an apk of this. I wouldn't know where to start, frankly, and I'm a dinosaur anyway.....I don't even possess a smart-phone! Everything I produce is geared specifically toward the Puppy Linux family of distros......after almost 10 years, I'm pretty comfortable with the build environment. I'm essentially a 'packager'; I re-package freely-available apps into Puppy's own peculiar package formats, although I have built a few utilities from the ground up, mainly Bash- and YAD-based, making use of existing binary functionality within Puppy. A 'portable' manual TRIM utility for SSDs. A drive speed tester. A control suite for turning a bunch of webcams into a basic home CCTV system. I did a re-build of GSmartCtl a few years back, when they introduced the ability for it to support the 'bridge' cards used by external USB 3.0 hard drives. Stuff like that.
#########################
As for the RAM0/RAM1 stuff, I don't really understand quite what all those do. The dev team have developed all kinds of methods for implementing persistence across an entire spectrum of different install types. Me, I run it in traditional 'immediate' mode, where things are written back to the 'save' in real-time, similar to how traditional Linux 'full' installs work. If you want to understand this better, the best thing to do would be to sign-up to the Puppy Forums, and ask the guys in the KLV-Airedale sub-forum. They'll be all too willing to explain the differences, I'm certain of that!
forum.puppylinux.com
They're a good bunch, trust me.....very friendly. They won't "bite". (At least, not until they get to know you a bit better...!)
Mike.
Well now; that's a bunch of questions and NO mistake. Let's see if I can answer 'em in a way that makes some kinda sense.
Ungoogled Chromium - Um; it's exactly what it says. I take it you're aware that the Chromium Project is sponsored by Google, yes? They set it up at the same time as Chrome itself in Autumn 2007, releasing the source-code as open-source to forestall any accusations of proprietary considerations from the global community.....remember, this was around the end of the 'browser wars' when Internet Explorer was beginning to finally lose its dominance.
The Project is essentially Google's browser R & D department; it's where all the new ideas and cutting-edge stuff is trialled from the global dev community that's grown up around it. It's always built against the very newest dependencies available. The Project runs what amounts to a fleet of semi-autonomous "build-bots", churning out build after build of Chromium 24/7, as new commits are slip-streamed into the code-base literally as they arrive. As soon as a "stable" release is available, Google take the code-base, add their own proprietary APIs and other bit's & bobs, re-compile it against a rather older build environment, badge it as Chrome and make it available for general release.
Why it's re-compiled is quite simple; Google aren't stupid.....they know a lot of people don't constantly run the very newest versions of everything, and if left to their own devices probably wouldn't bother updating at all. This makes the browser available to a much wider 'customer-base', and keeps their browser's ratings as high as possible.
--------------------
Ungoogled Chromium came about because a whole bunch of folks got fed-up with "Big Brother's" all-pervasive nosiness, and decided to do something about it.....the more so since the code-base is freely available for anyone to build on top of.....leading to Iron, Vivaldi, Opera, Slimjet, Brave, etc, etc. They're all Chromiun-based. Essentially, here every link with Google has been severed, and all Google-specific APIs have been removed. This makes it 'interesting' trying to install extensions from the Chrome App Store, for instance, although there is a way round this.
However, the browser doesn't report back to Google in any way, shape or form. You'd be surprised just how popular it's become over the last few years!
No, I haven't built an apk of this. I wouldn't know where to start, frankly, and I'm a dinosaur anyway.....I don't even possess a smart-phone! Everything I produce is geared specifically toward the Puppy Linux family of distros......after almost 10 years, I'm pretty comfortable with the build environment. I'm essentially a 'packager'; I re-package freely-available apps into Puppy's own peculiar package formats, although I have built a few utilities from the ground up, mainly Bash- and YAD-based, making use of existing binary functionality within Puppy. A 'portable' manual TRIM utility for SSDs. A drive speed tester. A control suite for turning a bunch of webcams into a basic home CCTV system. I did a re-build of GSmartCtl a few years back, when they introduced the ability for it to support the 'bridge' cards used by external USB 3.0 hard drives. Stuff like that.
#########################
As for the RAM0/RAM1 stuff, I don't really understand quite what all those do. The dev team have developed all kinds of methods for implementing persistence across an entire spectrum of different install types. Me, I run it in traditional 'immediate' mode, where things are written back to the 'save' in real-time, similar to how traditional Linux 'full' installs work. If you want to understand this better, the best thing to do would be to sign-up to the Puppy Forums, and ask the guys in the KLV-Airedale sub-forum. They'll be all too willing to explain the differences, I'm certain of that!
KLV-Airedale - Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
forum.puppylinux.com
They're a good bunch, trust me.....very friendly. They won't "bite". (At least, not until they get to know you a bit better...!)
Mike.
Last edited:
OP
AlexOceanic
Member
That's a great overview - thanks again Mike@AlexOceanic :-
Well now; that's a bunch of questions and NO mistake. Let's see if I can answer 'em in a way that makes some kinda sense.
Ungoogled Chromium - Um; it's exactly what it says. I take it you're aware that the Chromium Project is sponsored by Google, yes? They set it up at the same time as Chrome itself in Autumn 2007, releasing the source-code as open-source to forestall any accusations of proprietary considerations from the global community.....remember, this was around the end of the 'browser wars' when Internet Explorer was beginning to finally lose its dominance.
The Project is essentially Google's browser R & D department; it's where all the new ideas and cutting-edge stuff is trialled from the global dev community that's grown up around it. It's always built against the very newest dependencies available. The Project runs what amounts to a fleet of semi-autonomous "build-bots", churning out build after build of Chromium 24/7, as new commits are slip-streamed into the code-base literally as they arrive. As soon as a "stable" release is available, Google take the code-base, add their own proprietary APIs and other bit's & bobs, re-compile it against a rather older build environment, badge it as Chrome and make it available for general release.
Why it's re-compiled is quite simple; Google aren't stupid.....they know a lot of people don't constantly run the very newest versions of everything, and if left to their own devices probably wouldn't bother updating at all. This makes the browser available to a much wider 'customer-base', and keeps their browser's ratings as high as possible.
--------------------
Ungoogled Chromium came about because a whole bunch of folks got fed-up with "Big Brother's" all-pervasive nosiness, and decided to do something about it.....the more so since the code-base is freely available for anyone to build on top of.....leading to Iron, Vivaldi, Opera, Slimjet, Brave, etc, etc. They're all Chromiun-based. Essentially, here every link with Google has been severed, and all Google-specific APIs have been removed. This makes it 'interesting' trying to install extensions from the Chrome App Store, for instance, although there is a way round this.
However, the browser doesn't report back to Google in any way, shape or form. You'd be surprised just how popular it's become over the last few years!
No, I haven't built an apk of this. I wouldn't know where to start, frankly, and I'm a dinosaur anyway.....I don't even possess a smart-phone! Everything I produce is geared specifically toward the Puppy Linux family of distros......after almost 10 years, I'm pretty comfortable with the build environment. I'm essentially a 'packager'; I re-package freely-available apps into Puppy's own peculiar package formats, although I have built a few utilities from the ground up, mainly Bash- and YAD-based, making use of existing binary functionality within Puppy. A 'portable' manual TRIM utility for SSDs. A drive speed tester. A control suite for turning a bunch of webcams into a basic home CCTV system. I did a re-build of GSmartCtl a few years back, when they introduced the ability for it to support the 'bridge' cards used by external USB 3.0 hard drives. Stuff like that.
#########################
As for the RAM0/RAM1 stuff, I don't really understand quite what all those do. The dev team have developed all kinds of methods for implementing persistence across an entire spectrum of different install types. Me, I run it in traditional 'immediate' mode, where things are written back to the 'save' in real-time, similar to how traditional Linux 'full' installs work. If you want to understand this better, the best thing to do would be to sign-up to the Puppy Forums, and ask the guys in the KLV-Airedale sub-forum. They'll be all too willing to explain the differences, I'm certain of that!
KLV-Airedale - Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
They're a good bunch, trust me.....very friendly. They won't "bite". (At least, not until they get to know you a bit better...!)
Mike.
I've known what a criminal Gates was for years but didn't realise Google (and all big tech seemingly) were also wrong uns in a big way until a couple of years ago.
That sounds reassuring what you're saying about how Chrome was built to be open source and that the version you packaged has no links to Google but I still can't help but feel nervous about using anything that comes from Google. It's a shame as I always liked Chrome before 2020 and perhaps I'll dip a toe back in after what you've said there.
I'm probably over simplifying but thought Android was Linux based and therefore it might be a case of finding a compiler that would compile an Android .apk rather than the Linux versions but perhaps they run too differently for that to be a simple process (my witterings about Google App dependencies in Android which aren't "a thing" in Linux for one I guess).
It sounds like you've been a great asset to the Linux community and your CCTV system sounds interesting, I've got a boat and have been thinking about installing something like that on there so shall be investigating further!
I've just joined the Puppy forum and read the overview which gave me a much better understanding of how the system works.
I thought that by installing Puppy to the HDD it would release more RAM to use for Blender etc but it seems it doesn't use that much space, perhaps allows a pc with a non SSD/traditional HDD to approach SSD response speeds and would still be quicker/more responsive than installing the OS to HDD despite reclaiming the RAM used when running from a USB?
I'll have a chat with the folks on the forum to see what they say about this.
I'd like to understand which distro this KLV version is built on and whether there is a non Ubuntu/Debian version out there, it seems there are normally Slackware and Arch versions too so will need to dig into those a bit more and get a better understanding of their principles and drives and whether I can use one of those with KLV.
Thanks again to you and everyone else who tried to help me resolve the recent issues - its very much appreciated
@AlexOceanic :-
KLV is based around Void Linux - hence the 'V' in the name.
As for installing Puppy, or KLV on a HDD.....sure; that's no problem. The one thing you need to understand is that Puppy does NOT require a partition all to itself. I've been using Pup for almost a decade, and it took ME the best part of 5 years to get my head round this fact!
You can have ONE partition for your "kennels", yet run multiple Puppies from this same one.....because the 'frugal' install method permits running each Puppy from a dedicated directory (completely self-contained). SFS (squash file-system) files are used - in 'read-only' mode - so every time you boot the actual system files are 'brand-new', and 'squeaky-clean'. It's only the contents of the 'save' folder (this is a wee bit different in KLV, yet basically works the same) that get 'layered' into the OS files via the aufs file-system at boot which permit retention of your personal customizations/installations.
It sounds complicated, I know, but the end result looks just the same to the user as any other distro. At the same time, it gives Puppies unparalleled flexibility as to where all the components go.....and makes backing-up a breeze.
You'll get the hang of it. It's not hard.
Mike.
KLV is based around Void Linux - hence the 'V' in the name.
As for installing Puppy, or KLV on a HDD.....sure; that's no problem. The one thing you need to understand is that Puppy does NOT require a partition all to itself. I've been using Pup for almost a decade, and it took ME the best part of 5 years to get my head round this fact!
You can have ONE partition for your "kennels", yet run multiple Puppies from this same one.....because the 'frugal' install method permits running each Puppy from a dedicated directory (completely self-contained). SFS (squash file-system) files are used - in 'read-only' mode - so every time you boot the actual system files are 'brand-new', and 'squeaky-clean'. It's only the contents of the 'save' folder (this is a wee bit different in KLV, yet basically works the same) that get 'layered' into the OS files via the aufs file-system at boot which permit retention of your personal customizations/installations.
It sounds complicated, I know, but the end result looks just the same to the user as any other distro. At the same time, it gives Puppies unparalleled flexibility as to where all the components go.....and makes backing-up a breeze.
You'll get the hang of it. It's not hard.
Mike.
OP
AlexOceanic
Member
Interesting stuff - I hadn't really heard of Void beforehand.@AlexOceanic :-
KLV is based around Void Linux - hence the 'V' in the name.
As for installing Puppy, or KLV on a HDD.....sure; that's no problem. The one thing you need to understand is that Puppy does NOT require a partition all to itself. I've been using Pup for almost a decade, and it took ME the best part of 5 years to get my head round this fact!
You can have ONE partition for your "kennels", yet run multiple Puppies from this same one.....because the 'frugal' install method permits running each Puppy from a dedicated directory (completely self-contained). SFS (squash file-system) files are used - in 'read-only' mode - so every time you boot the actual system files are 'brand-new', and 'squeaky-clean'. It's only the contents of the 'save' folder (this is a wee bit different in KLV, yet basically works the same) that get 'layered' into the OS files via the aufs file-system at boot which permit retention of your personal customizations/installations.
It sounds complicated, I know, but the end result looks just the same to the user as any other distro. At the same time, it gives Puppies unparalleled flexibility as to where all the components go.....and makes backing-up a breeze.
You'll get the hang of it. It's not hard.
Mike.
I saw Rockedge mention some Debian code was used when creating KLV but I'll try to rein in my paranoia about what Debian may or may not be up to and accept that good/useful code is just that.
The main reason I want to install Puppy to the HDD is to hopefully fix any boot/GRUB/GPU driver errors I created with my flailing around on the previous distros - if it turns out that running from USB with persistence gives me better performance then I doubt I'll use the HDD install much other than as a backup probably.
Love simplicity and flexibility - running several Pups from a single partition sounds great and I look forward to getting my head around it too!
I won't fire off any more questions until I've had a good read of the beginner user guides so I'll be going darkish for a while but I'll be back soon!
Cheers
Alex
