New Guy

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Hi there people. I've always read and heard about Linux as an alternative to windows for quite some time. During some of my training as a tech there was a guy taking the Linux + certification course. This was instructor led with hands on experience also. He was the only guy taking that course. I never thought Linux would really take off, at least as a general home user type OS. I always knew it was very popular with programmers and as a server OS with Network admins and Network Engineers. I've always enjoyed learning command line in windows. Never have I pursued Linux more than trying to install it maybe 20 years ago now and then forgetting about it.

Today I'm thinking about it more and more and will probably take some Linux courses. I'm not sure if Linux + is still popular. I have some older pcs just sitting around collecting dust, so I might as well use one or two of them to try and learn Linux. The one thing I always heard about Linux was that finding drivers for hardware was/is always a pain in the arse. Does this still ring true today?. Am I gonna have a hard time finding chipset drivers for those old pc motherboards?.

The one thing that is pretty interesting to me and makes me want to learn Linux is that a lot of guys in my area of expertise use "Linux live" CDs or flash drives to boot into Linux and run applications for diagnosis. So learning Linux would certainly help me out that way.
 


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I did see this though,

"1. Due to different Linux support condition provided by chipset vendors, please download Linux driver from chipset vendors' website or 3rd party website.". So I guess I'd check the Intel website.
 

Condobloke

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if this were me....rather than wade through all the blurbs and confuse myself further........I would be taking my trusty 8 gb thumb drive and 'burning' whichever version of linux to it .

Then plug the thumb drive into whatever PC you are using atm......alter the boot to do so from usb....and if the 'test' version will run on that pc, then so will the properly installed version.

Depending on which version of linux or ubuntu or whatever you are going to try, you may be able to use a 4gb thumb drive/usb/pendrive...call it what ever you like

I gave up windows 10...8.1....7....and xp a couple of years ago. Installed Linux Mint 17 at the time....am now running Linux Mint 18.3 (Sylvia cinnamon)....and have never looked back. I have had a few minor dramas, but they have all been caused by ...Me !

I tested LM 17.1 by using the above method....stuck it on a usb....booted to the usb....and it worked. Clicked on "Install LM" on the desktop....and the rest is history.
 

wizardfromoz

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Hold your horses... :p, don't download any drivers yet, you may find you are reinventing the wheel:D

@LinuxNewbie

Note my time here currently is 11:40AM, Friday, I am from DownUnder.

I'll be back in a few minutes with more details.

Cheers

Chris Turner
wizardfromoz
 

wizardfromoz

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Haha, I see Brian (@Condobloke has joined the fray, I'll leave you to it for a little while

Cheers

Wiz - Hi Brian, and @LinuxNewbie , thanks for copying over that stuff, see what I mean about gaining a wider audience? :rolleyes:
 
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Ok @wizardfromoz I'll hold off for now. Really just wondering about this right now. I figured I'd look for the drivers beforehand. For my main pc and latest build I'm using Windows 10. Just finished building it back in March of 2017. No real problems with Windows 10. I just don't like all the crap that comes with it, and the spyware that Microsoft decided to put on Windows 10. As far as I'm concerned there shouldn't be any bloatware with any OS. Especially if you using an OEM version doing a clean install. I loved Windows 7 and Windows XP before that. Maybe in the future, after I learn Linux and get used to it, I'll build a pc just for that. For now though, my second oldest PC I think should run Linux fine. Anyway what do you all think about Linux + from Comptia?. Good place to start?. Thinking of getting a video course to learn Linux and reading about installing it, then installing it and basically teaching myself while watching the videos. Plus of course this place seems like it would be helpful to me also.
 

Condobloke

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Throw in your two cents worth as well Chris (wizardfromoz)....your experience will flesh out the bits that I have no doubt missed
 

wizardfromoz

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@LinuxNewbie , @Condobloke

Regrets for the delays, large family crisis with my elder stepson, which I may enlighten Brian and Stan (@atanere ) about later, the next few days my attendance may be intermittent. Regrets on being mysterious, but then Wizards are, aren't they? :rolleyes:

@LinuxNewbie Brian's comments at #4 are a hard act to top, and reflect many of my own views.

My reference to "hold the horses" was amply covered by Brian. Simply put, we can "try before you buy" with Linux. We have to download a file ending in .iso , from a reliable source, verifying it before during or after, dependent on method, to see that we are getting what we pay for (which is nil, nix, nada). The take that file and "burn" it like you would burn a music disk, but with sometimes different software.

If using optical disks as a medium, usually a DVD is needed (most Linux are greater than 1GB but there are still CD-sized exceptions), otherwise USB stick is legend, as reusable after the fact, although if you have a good supply it is handy to keep the one you later use to install, as a recovery tool.

Once you've burned the medium, you can insert it, and reboot. When you reboot, you will likely have to enter your Setup through the appropriate avenue, could be Escape, Delete, F12 or other combination, and tweak your BIOS/UEFI to boot first from the medium, USB or Optical, temporarily or permanently, to allow the medium to boot before your HDD.

Save your changes, or not, and then you are in.

With some Windows, you may need to disable Secure Boot and perhaps Fast Boot, but check first, for a number of modern Linux incorporate a process called Shim, to allow them to handshake with Windows and be allowed to run.

I won't go into the Windows side of things, because my good friends Stan (@atanere ) and Brian (@Condobloke ) are far more proficient in current Windows than I.

As you might expect, with the Live experience, CD/DVD can be sluggish in performance, USB faster, and HDD install faster still, when running Linux. Some Linux even load into RAM, faster yet. You can also try on a Virtual Machine state, with VirtualBox, VMWare and the like. Even from within Windows.

So after bamboozling you (I hope not), what about those bloody Drivers??

The Live option, via removable media, can allow you to test out wifi or Ethernet internet connections, hook into printers and scanners, see that your Display/Graphics is OK, etcetera.

Many of the Linux already have drivers installed with their .iso , modified from the manufacturers. They may be lagging a little with the oldest drivers, and the very newest drivers, but you are in the best position to determine that.

There are also generic drivers developed for Linux. For example, we cater to nVidia to an extent, but then there is also the Nouveau driver, for graphics. Likewise with AMD/Radeon.

I could go on, but for now, I'll leave you to digest that (hope you don't get indigestion, lol).

Speaking of horses, and perhaps for courses - if you check at this thread, a link is provided by @mrcrossroads to a Linux course that might suit your trial of it. https://www.linux.org/threads/migrating-to-linux-graphical-environments.15413/#post-49202

Cheers, and it is Friday here in Oz, so as my Friends and Colleagues will expect

avagudweegend

Wizard
 

atanere

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I'll just throw in two cents (okay, maybe a nickel or more)... and echo what the others tell you: put linux on a USB or DVD and boot it up to see what you've got. In most cases, you will not need to find any special drivers just for your basic computer needs (wireless, sound, video, etc). Printers may need some extra work (HP is usually the best/easiest for Linux). And a big driver issue I've seen in the past is for specialized hardware... latest-greatest gaming mice and keyboards... those are not well supported by manufacturers for Linux, or by the Linux kernel itself. But cross any bridges when you get there.

About Linux+ or certs in general... they cost too much. I have a Linux+ myself (very long time ago) but only because my employer paid for it. As Wizard mentioned above, there is a free Linux course offered by The Linux Foundation that is provided by edX (direct link here) and I've taken that too, but I wouldn't spend $99 for the "verified" certificate of completion. You'll get an unverified certificate anyway. There are tons of free tips, tweaks, training, YouTube videos, and whatever to help you get started... just like working with us here. What will teach you the most is doing.... doing every day. If you can stand it, give up Windows completely and switch to Linux only... that will speed up the learning, but you will have some trying times also. The other thing that will teach you the most, or the best, is to use Google to search out your questions and find answers and solutions on your own. But really... this is also "doing".... learning how to do these things on your own will help them to sink in far better. I think this gets easier as you go along too though... in the beginning, you sometimes don't even know how to phrase the questions. But we are glad to help as you need it.

Gotta run. More snow to plow this morning. Ugh.

Cheers
 
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@LinuxNewbie , @Condobloke

Regrets for the delays, large family crisis with my elder stepson, which I may enlighten Brian and Stan (@atanere ) about later, the next few days my attendance may be intermittent. Regrets on being mysterious, but then Wizards are, aren't they? :rolleyes:

@LinuxNewbie Brian's comments at #4 are a hard act to top, and reflect many of my own views.

My reference to "hold the horses" was amply covered by Brian. Simply put, we can "try before you buy" with Linux. We have to download a file ending in .iso , from a reliable source, verifying it before during or after, dependent on method, to see that we are getting what we pay for (which is nil, nix, nada). The take that file and "burn" it like you would burn a music disk, but with sometimes different software.

If using optical disks as a medium, usually a DVD is needed (most Linux are greater than 1GB but there are still CD-sized exceptions), otherwise USB stick is legend, as reusable after the fact, although if you have a good supply it is handy to keep the one you later use to install, as a recovery tool.

Once you've burned the medium, you can insert it, and reboot. When you reboot, you will likely have to enter your Setup through the appropriate avenue, could be Escape, Delete, F12 or other combination, and tweak your BIOS/UEFI to boot first from the medium, USB or Optical, temporarily or permanently, to allow the medium to boot before your HDD.

Save your changes, or not, and then you are in.

With some Windows, you may need to disable Secure Boot and perhaps Fast Boot, but check first, for a number of modern Linux incorporate a process called Shim, to allow them to handshake with Windows and be allowed to run.

I won't go into the Windows side of things, because my good friends Stan (@atanere ) and Brian (@Condobloke ) are far more proficient in current Windows than I.

As you might expect, with the Live experience, CD/DVD can be sluggish in performance, USB faster, and HDD install faster still, when running Linux. Some Linux even load into RAM, faster yet. You can also try on a Virtual Machine state, with VirtualBox, VMWare and the like. Even from within Windows.

So after bamboozling you (I hope not), what about those bloody Drivers??

The Live option, via removable media, can allow you to test out wifi or Ethernet internet connections, hook into printers and scanners, see that your Display/Graphics is OK, etcetera.

Many of the Linux already have drivers installed with their .iso , modified from the manufacturers. They may be lagging a little with the oldest drivers, and the very newest drivers, but you are in the best position to determine that.

There are also generic drivers developed for Linux. For example, we cater to nVidia to an extent, but then there is also the Nouveau driver, for graphics. Likewise with AMD/Radeon.

I could go on, but for now, I'll leave you to digest that (hope you don't get indigestion, lol).

Speaking of horses, and perhaps for courses - if you check at this thread, a link is provided by @mrcrossroads to a Linux course that might suit your trial of it. https://www.linux.org/threads/migrating-to-linux-graphical-environments.15413/#post-49202

Cheers, and it is Friday here in Oz, so as my Friends and Colleagues will expect

avagudweegend

Wizard

Thanks for the information. I have made my own bootable USB before a few times. So just to be clear, you are saying their are bootable .iso images of whatever "flavor" of Linux I want to try, just have to find a reliable source to download?. My older PC is just sitting in my "bedroom" for now, don't need or want anything on it. So that's why I say I might as well go for broke and just try installing Linux on it. I don't have a KVM switch at the moment so I'd have to disconnect and reconnect my regular use PC to the monitors and keyboard I'm using now. Oh and the Linux + course I'm looking at is on sale for less than $10. Also some other Linux courses for less than $10.
 

wizardfromoz

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Morning all, got my first cuppa coffee in hand so I'm mostly Human. :confused:

just have to find a reliable source to download?

@LinuxNewbie - I would broadly categorise these as including:
A lot of the Devs (developers) use SourceForge, and some smaller ones use GitHub, also safe.

The official websites, and DistroWatch, will usually include a means of verifying your Download, which can be important. This usually includes algorithms called checksums, and these are available under Windows too, but most Windows Users are blissfully unaware of them.

Checksums, aka hashsums include, in ascending level of security/safety:
  • MD5sum
  • SHA(1)sum and
  • SHA256sum
... there are others. Sha256 is basically the industry standard nowadays.

Cheers

Wizard
 

atanere

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Oh and the Linux + course I'm looking at is on sale for less than $10. Also some other Linux courses for less than $10.

But have you priced the exam cost from CompTIA? It's a two-part exam that will set you back over $400 to take both, unless that course offers a substantial discount. My opinion is still that it is too costly... unless 1) it makes you immediately eligible for a job you don't currently have, or 2) it will bring you an immediate raise in pay in your current job. Of course, you can spend the $10 to get the study material in pursuit of knowledge, even if you decide not to take the exam... nothing wrong with that.

Sometimes folks think that getting these low-level certs will open career doors, but I would suggest that is not the norm. High-level certs may well be another story, but you can jump full-in and learn everything about Linux on your own, without any formal training. And by the time you reach that expert level of knowledge, I'd guess you will be able to make a living with it, and you would be able to pass any cert tests if then you feel they would be worth it.

Other people may think more highly of certifications than I do. The best people to ask are those who work with Linux in IT environments, or HR folks who hire in such situations. They will give you the best info on what training might influence job or promotion prospects.

Cheers
 
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But have you priced the exam cost from CompTIA? It's a two-part exam that will set you back over $400 to take both, unless that course offers a substantial discount. My opinion is still that it is too costly... unless 1) it makes you immediately eligible for a job you don't currently have, or 2) it will bring you an immediate raise in pay in your current job. Of course, you can spend the $10 to get the study material in pursuit of knowledge, even if you decide not to take the exam... nothing wrong with that.

Sometimes folks think that getting these low-level certs will open career doors, but I would suggest that is not the norm. High-level certs may well be another story, but you can jump full-in and learn everything about Linux on your own, without any formal training. And by the time you reach that expert level of knowledge, I'd guess you will be able to make a living with it, and you would be able to pass any cert tests if then you feel they would be worth it.

Other people may think more highly of certifications than I do. The best people to ask are those who work with Linux in IT environments, or HR folks who hire in such situations. They will give you the best info on what training might influence job or promotion prospects.

Cheers

Yep I decided against it, but I did purchase some other non-comptia Linux courses,

Linux for beginners

Superb Linux Bootcamp

Linux Command Line Basics

Learn Linux Basics to Advance

So four courses. Just started watching "Linux for beginners". Just learned of the site "DistroWatch.com".

So I'm not very fat into it as it's not so quiet here right now. I'm just gonna take my time with this. Reason I decided not to go with the Linux + is because I don't really plan on becoming some kind of Linux admin or anything like that. I'm not even sure if Linux + is still and updated exam either. I'm mostly learning this for my own benefit and enjoyment.
 
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Alright well I tried installing "CentOs" on my old pc. I downloaded the DVD Iso, burned it and then when doing the install I checked the media and it "failed". I went and tried installing it anyway. I wanted to install it on my Raid 0 array but I believe I must have installed on a disk that wasn't in that array on a different controller. It didn't installed the GUI, even though I chose to install the GUI. The little bit of the Linux for beginners course explained how to install it on a Virtual Machine using Virtual Box but I wanted to install it on my old PC. Now it just boots up to where it asks me to log in. It's in all text no gui. So there is just a command line.

Well I turned it off for now. I might try again or created another DVD...Or maybe try a different flavor. Don't know what to try next really. Sorry guys I don't have much patience to deal with this anymore tonight.
 

atanere

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Alright well I tried installing "CentOs" on my old pc. I downloaded the DVD Iso, burned it and then when doing the install I checked the media and it "failed". I went and tried installing it anyway. I wanted to install it on my Raid 0 array but I believe I must have installed on a disk that wasn't in that array on a different controller. It didn't installed the GUI, even though I chose to install the GUI. The little bit of the Linux for beginners course explained how to install it on a Virtual Machine using Virtual Box but I wanted to install it on my old PC. Now it just boots up to where it asks me to log in. It's in all text no gui. So there is just a command line.

Well I turned it off for now. I might try again or created another DVD...Or maybe try a different flavor. Don't know what to try next really. Sorry guys I don't have much patience to deal with this anymore tonight.

CentOS was an interesting first distro choice!?!? And going for a RAID setup?!?! You must be a glutton for punishment!!!! :eek::confused::D

If checking the install media failed, you may have got an incomplete or corrupted download of the .iso file. We highly recommend that you "verify the checksum" of your download before burning to DVD or USB. Checksum values are usually provided in text files by the folks who make the distro. You'll need to use a free Windows program that will verify the checksum of your download, and then you compare it to that published by the distro. Checksums are usually in MD5 or SHA256 formats. You can get a decent freeware program here. When you have a Linux box running, you can verify checksum from a command line without any additional software.

Yes, I would suggest something more friendly to new users than CentOS. Ubuntu (16.04.03 --- not the latest 17.10 due to a serious bug it has).... or Linux Mint (MATE or Cinnamon desktop).... or Linux Lite (only offers XFCE desktop).... LXLE (uses very speedy LXDE desktop).... and more. All of these are Ubuntu-based so they are all very adept at finding and configuring your computer's hardware.

Cheers
 

Lorelei

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Might I add that the utility that I used to do checksum was simply found at cnet.com by googling "checksum utiltiy". I used it for the three distros I have attempted trying. :)
 
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