Messed up...

PcBuilderEd

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Ah apologies Wiz, the message killed the formatting, the dev/sba is the top option and the other options are suboptions, they should be inset a few space bars.
THanks, np appreciate your guys input and patience, definitely looking forward to getting Linux going. Yeah that guy is funny and explains things well.
 


wizardfromoz

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I'm at about 11:49 at the moment, and have to leave for a couple of hours but hope to spend an hour later tonight.

Check out the following from Windows Disk Management part



RIGHT-click yours in Windows, where it says Disk 0, and note the output. I'll explain soon.

#38

Heh it even put the video in....
Cool, eh? I used to use it in my Progressive Rock thread at my old Forum, but we were limited to two (2) videos, in a Post. I think we have more, here (love this place).

Also #38

I also had a mild moment.... could I just go get a SSD HD and put Linux on that, then in pull the HDD out and store it. That way ive got the windows HD available If I need it... but a Linux system primarily... This is too simple I must be missing at least a large land mine.

Yes, you can, I was going to ask about your existing 250GB portable, you could do the same. Depends on your Storage and Recovery needs and wants.

I have a 3TB (powered) external, and at one stage I had 45 Linux on it, and it was/is bootable. And I disproved an urban legend that you have to disconnect your C drive cable to get it to boot from the external.

The possibilities are endless.

Seriously, later

Wiz
 

PcBuilderEd

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If I could get it to work from the external that would be great, but would that not limit it to USB 2.0 speeds as well? I think it is also a 5400HD could that limit its usuability/functionality?
 
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wizardfromoz

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If I could get it to work from the external that would be great, but would that not limit it to USB 2.0 speeds as well? I think it is also a 5400HD could that limit its usuability/functionality?
Yes, and yes. You are only as good as your weakest link.*

That being said, Linux on an HDD is fast. Generally speaking

  • it is less resource-hungry than alternative OSes
  • read-write operations are faster

  • there is little to no fragmentation generated, which facilitates those faster read-write operations

I have no figures to back this up (yet) but my gut feeling is that even a 5400rpm HDD running Linux will perform better than a 7200rpm running another OS. Of course, solid state is a different kettle of fish, it is just … FAST

I note that from the fugures above you were successful in shrinking your Windows. So the choice is yours whether you try Linux on that unit, or on the portable, or buy an SSD and try that. Or all of the above, lol. Once I succumbed to the siren call of Linux, I was like a kid in a candy store, couldn’t get enough … but it seldom gives me a belly ache.

* The weakness of these links can be reduced. If you choose to place Linux first on the portable, you would apply the following as part of your install steps:

  1. Start your computer (Linux will designate this as /dev/sda)

  2. Plug in if not already plugged in, your portable (Linux will designate this as /dev/sdb)

  3. Plug in your Live Linux USB stick (Linux will designate this as /dev/sdc)

  4. During the install, when you have the option to install Swap and determine where to install the Bootloader, you can choose to have both placed on the portable, /dev/sdb

That last step is conditional on your having the portable set in your BIOS as being the first port of call to boot from. If you get steps 2 and 3 mixed up, that won’t matter. Linux will identify the USB stick as /dev/sdb and the portable as /dev/sdc, but once the install is completed and you reboot and remove the stick, your portable will become the new /dev/sdb (it could even become /dev/sda, with your computer becoming /dev/sdb – depends on a few factors). You’ll soon get the hang of it.


I’ll finish this Post here, because in the next Post I have some questions to ask.

Wizard
 

wizardfromoz

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WIZARD'S RECOMMENDED READING:

https://askubuntu.com/questions/689...ind-what-partition-numbers-are-already-in-use

First up, let's get those partitions sorted, from #36 on page 2, the one with the video.

You had

There were 6 options:
dev/sba
dev/sba 1 HP
dev/sba 2 C:
dev/sba/ swap
dev/sba ext4
dev/sba 6 System
That should look something like this: (the b's are d's)

dev/sda
dev/sda1 HP
dev/sda2 C:
dev/sda/ swap ? Should have a number with sda eg /dev/sda3
dev/sda4 ext4 ? Should have a number
dev/sda6 System

Did you back out of the install before or after any message saying eg "Changes will be written to disk"?

During a "normal" (what is normal?) install in your circumstances, using an MS-DOS partition system (limited to 4 Primary partitions, or 3 Primaries, and 1 Extended), the Extended Partition would have been designated as ext4. Even if there were only 2 partitions in use to begin with, and you set up the Extended, and then Logical Partitions under that to house Linux, it would appear something like:

/dev/sda1
/dev/sda2
/dev/sda4 Extended
/dev/sda5 Logical (might be Swap)
/dev/sda6 Logical (perhaps for your Linux Mint)

and then you could still choose to make another Primary that would become

/dev/sda3

So without me looking over your shoulder, it is a little hard to say what is going on.

A Swap partition has to be set up through the Linux installer, or after install by other means (usually GParted). Swap does not care whether it is Primary, or Extended, or Logical (waste of Extended), but it will receive a number.

I'll show you a couple of examples from my own environment.

Figure 1 is a screenshot of a part of my GParted output, for the Toshiba Satellite laptop


Fig.1

You can see that the Swap is near the end of the drive, but has the designation as /dev/sda3. The icons (in this case of a somewhat dated telephone handset) indicate that the partition is currently mounted, and you can see I don't use the Swap, which is 4GB (3.81GiB).

Figure 2 is a screenshot of a part of my GParted output, for the Acer All-in-One, which currently houses the most Linux.


Fig. 2

In this case, you can see once again I have my Swap and my efi system partition near the end of the drive, this time it is 8GB (7.54 GiB) and numbered /dev/sda2.

So on a GParted shot, your Swap should look like one of those.

If you find it difficult to get us a GParted screenshot from the Live environment using GNOME Screenshot referred to earlier, there is another way.

If you have not already read my "Recommended Reading" link, you could do so now. I cannot print it all because of possible copyright implications, but the part I am first referencing is

To show the partition types you could use

sudo parted /dev/sda print

Output could be

Disk /dev/sda: 500GB
Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B
Partition Table: msdos
Number Start End Size Type File system Flags
1 1049kB 105GB 105GB primary ntfs boot
2 105GB 205GB 100GB primary ext3
3 205GB 207GB 1999MB primary linux-swap
4 207GB 500GB 293GB extended lba
5 207GB 500GB 293GB logical ntfs

Means sda4 is a primary partition now called extended partition, with one logical partition.
So here, the User had a drive of a good size, such as yours, he has an MS-DOS partitioning scheme, such as you. He has Windows at /dev/sda1, size 105GB. Having the boot flag does not mean he boots from it, simply that it is bootable. He has Linux at /dev/sda2 size 100GB using the older ext3 file system rather than the current ext4. He has 2GB of Swap comprising a Primary partition at /dev/sda3 (not my choice). He has had the Extended Partition set up for him at /dev/sda4, size 293GB and within that is a Logical partition /dev/sda5 of near enough 293GB using NTFS file system, I am guessing for storage and/or backup of his Windows.

Figure 3. is a screenshot of the output on my Acer, of the command listed above.



Note that I use the gpt partitioning scheme rather than msdos, because it does not restrict my partitioning options (and you have to with a drive larger than 2TiB, or else break it into smaller chunks).

Similarly note that I have only Primary partitions, and no Windows.

So bottom line here is, whether with a GParted screenshot, or with the output of

Code:
sudo parted /dev/sda print
... we could better determine whether you are set up and ready to go, or whether additional or remedial actions needs be taken.

Cheers

Wizard
 

PcBuilderEd

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good as your weakest link.*


I note that from the fugures above you were successful in shrinking your Windows.
Wizard
Apologies Wiz I should have filled you in. Yes I successfully shrunk the HD. I didn't finish the install process using Linux. I think it was basically setting up how it would partition the free space I created once I pressed "install now." I set up a Logical partition, 8gb as a SWAP (dev/sda swap), and then the rest as an ext4 (dev/sda ext4). I cant remember but I think these did have a number designation. The other partitions were HP (dev/sda 1), System (dev/sda 6), and C: (dev/sda 3), as present before the C: shrink. The newer partitions (dev/sda swap), and (dev/sda ext4) would have been created (I'm guessing) once I hit "install." So my thought is that the first dev/sda option, without a number designation, is the entire hard disk (that is default highlighted and appears to be the main category), and the other dev/sda options (with numbers) are sub categories. The final choice the installer then gives after creating these partitions is then to place the actual Linux in the dev/sda, or within a sub category (presumably dev/sda ext4). [The bootloader is a separate in a menu below all of these options] I'm sorry I cant provide a screen capture for this but tbh I'm afraid of hitting an option by accident and this is the last step (I believe) in the installation app so I would need to redo that process to show you...

The good news is that I decided to get an SSD. I got a 500GB Samsung 850 Evo on sale for $150. With this Ill be able to have a separate general use Linux dedicated system, and windows as a back up if needed or I go back to school. My computer is actually nice despite being 6 years old, core i7, 8gb ram, 2gb graphics pu, but it does heat up quick so I'm hoping the SSD will keep things cooler as well speedy.
 

atanere

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Hi guys... sorry to be out of it for a few days. Working 12-hour night shifts just about drains me these days.

So, I see Wizard is giving you lots to go on... but I guess I missed out on why the diversion? Did your install not go well, or did you not complete it as planned? Is the next step now to install to an external hard drive instead? That should be pretty straightforward, I think, as long as you place the bootloader properly.

Cheers
 

PcBuilderEd

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I want to take a moment to SINCERLY say thank you all, but especially Wizard and Atanere, you fellas have been so patient and perservering, I am in your your debt. I cant believe how much I have picked up, I have such an improved understanding of disk management and OSs. But I'm just a hair outside my comfort zone. I would go for it as you guys are very good and I feel comfortable, but if there ever was a problem with the GRUB I would be done and a bit out of my comfort zone. There must be some kind of an award for this thread btw, 40 very informative posts.
 

atanere

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I seem to be having a typing tag-team match with you! :D Hey, this is fun!

Nice deal on the SSD. I saw that deal too, and I wish I had picked one up to play with. I'm glad you've got some new Linux education from our back-and-forths here. Operating systems are certainly a bit more complicated than just installing some bit of software, and that's why we try to be so careful to help keep you from doing damage. But your comfort zone is expanding now, and the more you play, the more you'll learn. Don't be too afraid of mistakes though... they are often the best teacher. :eek::D

Edit: Aw, heck... the SSD deal is still going on. So I grabbed one too! Thanks for the reminder! :D
 
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PcBuilderEd

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And Atan manages to ninja between posts... quite impressive.... Pretty happy with the SSD. It should keep things fast and frees up the external for things like pictures. Yeah its a good deal I think they are normally $180. This also opens up the portable for other things like pictures. The 500GB is also a bit faster than the smaller models which is kind of cool.
 

atanere

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And Atan manages to ninja between posts... quite impressive.... Pretty happy with the SSD. It should keep things fast and frees up the external for things like pictures. Yeah its a good deal I think they are normally $180. This also opens up the portable for other things like pictures. The 500GB is also a bit faster than the smaller models which is kind of cool.
The customer reviews on that drive as awesome... still holding 5 stars with over 15K reviews on Amazon. I got a SATA-to-USB converter cable with it to use it as an external drive instead of internal. Should be fun!
 

PcBuilderEd

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I seem to be having a typing tag-team match with you! :D Hey, this is fun!

Nice deal on the SSD. I saw that deal too, and I wish I had picked one up to play with. I'm glad you've got some new Linux education from our back-and-forths here. Operating systems are certainly a bit more complicated than just installing some bit of software, and that's why we try to be so careful to help keep you from doing damage. But your comfort zone is expanding now, and the more you play, the more you'll learn. Don't be too afraid of mistakes though... they are often the best teacher. :eek::D

Edit: Aw, heck... the SSD deal is still going on. So I grabbed one too! Thanks for the reminder! :D
That's two ninja posts.... lol. Yeah I absolutely appreciate your guys' support, without it I would never try such a thing. If this weren't my daily computer I would have given it a try without hesitation. However knowing that the recovery partition was done, and that the USBs were untried is a bit of a risk considering I couldn't understand completely the installer. Seriously though your guys' support made the attempt possible and I fully agree you have to try things or nothing is ever gained. Ill make a post soon regarding how to install Linux on the new Solid State Drive. I could stumble through it but this way others could hopefully learn as well.

PS I'm going to start selling SSDs now....as apparently I have a talent for it!
 

wizardfromoz

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...patient and perservering, I am in your your debt...
The bill is in the mail.

Will you guys stop gasbagging about SSDs, I am going :D green with envy? Hoping Santa will put one in my Christmas stocking.

Seriously though, Ed, you are in a good position now to check all your boxes on safeguarding the Windozey. You might want to, IMO (nothing humble about my opinions), consider seeing if you can just shrink the Windows a little more to about, say 225 to 230GB, then Clonezilla or other means it to the USB 250GB portable. Then unplug the portable, stick it in a ziplock bag and store it in a filing cabinet, you've got the whole shebang if you need it. Put a sticker on the bag with the date and time, then on your main Windows you can just perform incremental backups as needed. Then you're right as rain.

Just throwing thoughts out there.

Ill make a post soon regarding how to install Linux on the new Solid State Drive
@atanere - Mod call. Would it be better for the OP to start a new thread called eg "Need Help on Installing Linux Mint on an SSD", and/or re-title "Messed Up", so that The Viewers of the present and future can find the help they seek more easily, likewise for contributors to assist?

@PcBuilderEd - it's good that you are not getting too much heartburn from all the information, and are enjoying it. I seldom go through a day where I do not learn something new. I have my Firefoxes all running Sync so that I have my Bookmarks at my fingertips no matter what Distro I am on. I also have a folder called MyStuff which houses a subfolder named eg 00(zero zero)KnowledgeBase, and anything useful I put into it for easy recall later.

Later, folks

Wizard

BTW1 - could one of you put a link to those EVOs in a PM for me, so when I have the dough, I can take a look? Ta.

BTW2 -
I got a SATA-to-USB converter cable with it to use it as an external drive instead of internal
... that's handy to know, I was wondering whether you could stick them in a special caddy or whatnot.

Friday my time, so ... avagudweegend!
 

PcBuilderEd

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The bill is in the mail.

Will you guys stop gasbagging about SSDs, I am going :D green with envy? Hoping Santa will put one in my Christmas stocking.

Seriously though, Ed, you are in a good position now to check all your boxes on safeguarding the Windozey. You might want to, IMO (nothing humble about my opinions), consider seeing if you can just shrink the Windows a little more to about, say 225 to 230GB, then Clonezilla or other means it to the USB 250GB portable. Then unplug the portable, stick it in a ziplock bag and store it in a filing cabinet, you've got the whole shebang if you need it. Put a sticker on the bag with the date and time, then on your main Windows you can just perform incremental backups as needed. Then you're right as rain.

Just throwing thoughts out there.



@atanere - Mod call. Would it be better for the OP to start a new thread called eg "Need Help on Installing Linux Mint on an SSD", and/or re-title "Messed Up", so that The Viewers of the present and future can find the help they seek more easily, likewise for contributors to assist?

@PcBuilderEd - it's good that you are not getting too much heartburn from all the information, and are enjoying it. I seldom go through a day where I do not learn something new. I have my Firefoxes all running Sync so that I have my Bookmarks at my fingertips no matter what Distro I am on. I also have a folder called MyStuff which houses a subfolder named eg 00(zero zero)KnowledgeBase, and anything useful I put into it for easy recall later.

Later, folks

Wizard

BTW1 - could one of you put a link to those EVOs in a PM for me, so when I have the dough, I can take a look? Ta.

BTW2 -

... that's handy to know, I was wondering whether you could stick them in a special caddy or whatnot.

Friday my time, so ... avagudweegend!
Yeah this is definitely a good place. Ill take a look at a more complete windows Windows shrink but it is at 345GB now I believe so not sure. That sounds like a good option though thanks . I dove head into a new world and thanks to you fellas I'm able to make some progress. I was planning on a new thread btw this one will be long enough and part of the goal is to help others in my position so they can search for a thread if needed.

This is a link to the drive. I looked at a few and this one seems to be quite well thought of.
https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-2-5-Inch-Internal-MZ-75E500B-AM/dp/B00OBRE5UE
Ive also considered making the SSD the dual boot platform, with the HDD as the reserve. If I do this, and there is an issue with the GRUB at some point where the computer becomes unbootable, would I be able to plug in the other HDD and continue as usual or is the GRUB stored on the computer itself somewhere?
 

wizardfromoz

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Ta for that link, Mate, I hope to make use of it in the near future.

That sounds like a good option though thanks
You'll become acquainted with a principle called "FOSS" - Free and Open Source Software. It's what Mozilla's Firefox and Thunderbird (email) are built on vis-a-vis applications, and as regards OSes, its finest exponents are likely Linux and BSD. Options is what they are all about.

So I will often throw options at people, and just hope they do not become too confused at the wealth of choices. Which one works best for them can only be determined by themselves. But if one fails, there is usually another one or two or ten. If I don't know them (I have only been gung ho Linux 3 years), someone else will.

If I do this, and there is an issue with the GRUB at some point where the computer becomes unbootable, would I be able to plug in the other HDD and continue as usual or is the GRUB stored on the computer itself somewhere?
Have had a productive day today, blowing things up and then putting them back together again (not for the fainthearted). And have so far succeeded, now just have to document the solutions in my troubleshooting knowledge base.

If you are only booting one Linux on your system, things can still go wrong, and you may end up at a black screen which justs says, in the friendliest (not) of ways

Code:
grub>
... which has a number of options revealed by pressing TAB, or even worse, one that says

Code:
grub rescue>
... where there are only a few options.

If you dualboot with Windows, your risks increase a little. We (linux community) don't mind Windows, but Windows abhors us.

By the time you might be multibooting Linux, such as I do, your options to foul up increase exponentially, but you learn as you go, and in all the scenaria (scenarios) listed above, there are well-documented ways of fixing them, hopefully without feeling like you have had a tooth pulled.

Nowhere near as daunting as the Blue Screen of Death, nor the Black Screen of Death, IMO.

And you can fix it for free, and/or even Linux have Rescue Disks and the like available.

With the last part on Grub, answer is ... depends.

You have seen, in your partial install, how you can be offered a choice of where to place the bootloader (near the bottom of the screen, with a dropdown menu) and choose the default, eg /dev/sda or else whatever other options are provided in the list, which might include Device (dev) sda1 to sdaX, and if /dev/sda4 is where you are installing your Linux Mint (your small "r" root partition, characterised by "/"), you can choose to install it on /dev/sda4.

How having one drive become unbootable, and then swapping to another drive, will affect you is hard to pin down in what has already become a lengthy post, but it can be dealt with, I assure you, quite often with a short sequence of commands as simple as

Code:
sudo grub-install /dev/sda
... either followed or preceded by

Code:
sudo update-grub
I have just used that today, and am typing this here because it worked. But I engineered the failure, to get practice with troubleshooting.

Enough already, see you at your next Topic/thread and enjoy Linux.

Wizard
 

atanere

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VP9KS

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The bill is in the mail.

Will you guys stop gasbagging about SSDs, I am going :D green with envy? Hoping Santa will put one in my Christmas stocking.

Seriously though, Ed, you are in a good position now to check all your boxes on safeguarding the Windozey. You might want to, IMO (nothing humble about my opinions), consider seeing if you can just shrink the Windows a little more to about, say 225 to 230GB, then Clonezilla or other means it to the USB 250GB portable. Then unplug the portable, stick it in a ziplock bag and store it in a filing cabinet, you've got the whole shebang if you need it. Put a sticker on the bag with the date and time, then on your main Windows you can just perform incremental backups as needed. Then you're right as rain.

Just throwing thoughts out there.



@atanere - Mod call. Would it be better for the OP to start a new thread called eg "Need Help on Installing Linux Mint on an SSD", and/or re-title "Messed Up", so that The Viewers of the present and future can find the help they seek more easily, likewise for contributors to assist?

@PcBuilderEd - it's good that you are not getting too much heartburn from all the information, and are enjoying it. I seldom go through a day where I do not learn something new. I have my Firefoxes all running Sync so that I have my Bookmarks at my fingertips no matter what Distro I am on. I also have a folder called MyStuff which houses a subfolder named eg 00(zero zero)KnowledgeBase, and anything useful I put into it for easy recall later.

Later, folks

Wizard

BTW1 - could one of you put a link to those EVOs in a PM for me, so when I have the dough, I can take a look? Ta.

BTW2 -

... that's handy to know, I was wondering whether you could stick them in a special caddy or whatnot.

Friday my time, so ... avagudweegend!
Wiz,
Your knowledgeBase folder seems to be a step up from my paper brain:p:p. I'll have to try that myself.

Happy Trails
Paul

P.S. What IS normal?
 

VP9KS

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@PcBuilderEd's link has even gone down another $10, just $139.99. Don't know how Amazon works for you "down under" but it seems like quite a bargain. The Best Buy brand stores also list it for $149.99, but they say they will match prices.
Yeah, but Best Buy's return policy SUCKS!:(:(
 


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