Why is an USB/CD burn required for Linux installation

[Bluetrix]

This is more of a "Why" question than a "How To" request.

Why is USB/CD install help required?
If I were to install Linux in any variety, each requires either an USB or CD burn along with the DL of an ISO. (I understand the ISO part)
Having been a Windows user, DL'ing a program and install is done in one shot, the exe.install is included with the program, no outside drive or assistance is required.

I am wanting to migrate away from winsyndromeitus and explore options.

If I asked you to tighten a fan belt and you didn't know beforehand a lever of some sort was required to pry with, you would be lost trying to complete the task.

End goal is a dual boot.

Thanks in advance for any enlightenment.

 

[wizardfromoz]

Hi @Bluetrix and welcome to linux.org

That is a valid question, often asked, and yet a Google search under the following

• why linux iso has to be burned
• why linux iso cannot be executed and
• why linux iso cannot be double clicked to install

... provides for few satisfactory results

ISO 9660 is a standard adopted by the International Organisation for Standardisation in the late 1980s. It focused on CDs at that time, then DVDs came about, and USB was a newcomer around 1995 or so.

The standard allows the medium containing the iso to be used across all platforms - Windows, Mac and Linux. Just pop the disk in and then reboot and install.

Security is another factor. The Dozer allows Joe Blow to willy-nilly double-click an .exe file in his File Manager, perhaps with the expectation of opening an application, and subsequently bricking his install because it does not have the desired effect.

With nearly every Linux Distro I have installed (which likely numbers over 120), before the files start installing you are prompted to setup a user name and password first, and with a number, a separate Root password. This caters to an expectation that you understand you need to exercise responsibility.

I like your fan belt analogy and I want to steal that "winsyndromeitus"

Enjoy exploring your Linux options and sing out if you need input.

Chris Turner
wizardfromoz

 

[atanere]

Why is USB/CD install help required?

Because Linux is not a program to run under Windows. Linux is a complete operating system, an equal to Windows itself.

If you have a computer with no operating system and want to install Windows, you must also use a DVD or USB. This is simply how it is done. You can download a Windows 8 or Windows 10 .iso file and it will install just the same as Linux.

Linux has the added benefit that you can boot your computer on the DVD/USB and try it out in "live mode" before installing. Windows won't do that!

You can skip the DVD/USB if instead you use virtualization software. You can create a Linux virtual machine in Windows, or you can create a Windows virtual machine in Linux. Many new users prefer to get started this way so they can try many different Linux distros in virtual machines before committing one to a full install.

Cheers

 

[Bluetrix]

Chris,
Thank you for the response.
I couldn't agree more. There is not much in the way of information via any search engine on my question. Hence the reason I am here. I figured if anyone would know the answers, it would have to be in a Linux forum.
If you want to know about Fords, the Mercedes forum isn't the right place to look. Far to many people blindly do installations just because they can. Doesn't always work in their favor. I had the idea that the burn for an install was to keep windoze fingers off the install, because it was a different OS, not just a program to run. But thinking something doesn't make it true. I need to be told WHY it has to be done and I have to agree. atanere makes some valid points.

Of course the next logical step is to choose what flavor of Linux to install. Unlike M$ there are many types/brands to select from. 8 flavors of ubunto alone! I'm not totally dense but in all the reading on my choices, the best I can come up with is what NOT to install, granted that does narrow the field some.
Though you are all on team Linux, the divide between which flavor is best is akin to watching brothers fighting over the TV remote, "mine, no it's mine!"

To someone that is so used to just point and click for so many years with few other options, Linux is an odd duck for me. I don't ask for an explanation on how each works, that I can do the research on. What I will ask is, what your preferred version of Linux is and briefly why. I am gonna do an install anyway, might as well be armed with pro advice. FYI, I am not a power user, down to 1 laptop (HP notebook) 1TB SSHD, 8GB Ram with ~700Megs free on HD. I use FireFox's latest browser and truly detest the direction windows is headed. When it works right it's really easy to use. In favor of heuristics, I move forward.

Thanks again, btw, winsyndromeitus is open source, enjoy

 

[Bluetrix]

Thanks for the reply atanere,

You make valid points and they makes sense to me.
I was leaning in that direction, confirmation never hurts.

Many new users prefer to get started this way so they can try many different Linux distros in virtual machines

Therein lies the rub for most windows users. Linux offers choices. This is something they are not ready for and probably scares the majority away. They are happy having choices made for them. If they can't plug it in and forget it, then it isn't for them. One size fits all.

Answer me this if possible ... suppose I do a dual install with Mint. Later I find I don't care for it, instead I think installing Kubuntu or the KDE variety might be a better choice. Grass is always greener cliche.
Isn't it simple to delete Mint and install a different distro? (new burn and all) Perhaps I am so used to downloading and deleting programs in windows I enjoy doing it. Half the fun in windows for me is doing just that. If I am creating a new partition for Linux I can just wipe it and start over. Sure VM is a practical alternative, but where's the fun in that.

cheers back at ya!

 

[wizardfromoz]

Shakespeare fan, eh? Let me paraphrase from The Bard - A Linux by any other name would smell as sweet

To briefly answer your question:

Depending on your HDD capacity, if you have drive that is double or more the size of the space The Dozer consumes, your choices are simple. You will come to know the GNOME Partition Editor aka GParted, it is far more versatile than Windows Disk Management.

Best would be to install the new choice Linux, during the install process, you can "carve back" some space from your Mint to install the new kid on the block. Once you establish that you like it, you can use its GParted to blow away the Mint and reclaim the space either to the new kid, or leave as unallocated space for trying another Linux.

This is better than just blowing away the Mint first, because Windows can be a bit finicky about being supplanted by Linux and then being confronted with the prodigal son trying to return home, it is to do with what is called a Grub Menu, which you will encounter when you dualboot.

In any event, before you go to dualboot, have a Recovery situation covered with your Windows, and personal data safeguarded.

BTW - Kubuntu is actually Ubuntu with a KDE DE (Desktop Environment), as is Xubuntu with an Xfce DE.

Suggested reading

https://renewablepcs.wordpress.com/about-linux/kde-gnome-or-xfce/

Cheers

Wiz

the divide between which flavor is best is akin to watching brothers fighting over the TV remote, "mine, no it's mine!"

BTW - can understand that analogy. This site may be a good one for you, then, because we are pretty agnostic about which one is "best", IMO I have faves, but am always ready to meet a "best". I run 60 -80 of the suckers, which covers a wide range.

 

[Condobloke]

G'day Blue, and Welcome to Linux.org

What I will ask is, what your preferred version of Linux is and briefly why

Linux Mint (cinnamon) 18.3....(soon to be upgraded to LM 19)

Why ?
Stable
Simple
Plenty of support should it be needed
Bulletproof......it even stands up to my fiddling and experimenting without calamity

Plenty of choices.......so many. (like a dog with a couple of tails...sometimes it is hard to know which one to wag first )

It started out being my "learning ground' for Linux a few years back....and has become my daily joy.

Updates......like falling out of bed.....easy.

Contains Timeshift as default. (Like system restore on steroids)

 

[atanere]

Therein lies the rub for most windows users. Linux offers choices. This is something they are not ready for and probably scares the majority away. They are happy having choices made for them. If they can't plug it in and forget it, then it isn't for them. One size fits all.

Perhaps you're right, but my perception is a little different. I think "the rub" for most Windows users is Windows itself... and/or Microsoft and their business practices (forced updates, 50-page Privacy Statement, etc). People are tired of it and frustrated by it. They want something different! And they end up here (or elsewhere) and they start to learn that there is a bigger world in desktop computing than just Microsoft (or Apple).

But a new journey into a new and exciting world is not without risk, and not without its own frustrations. Some of the early steps entail learning "new language".... new terminology used in the Unix/Linux world that you don't find in Windows. If you haven't already, you'll very soon learn that Linux does not identify hard drives and partitions as "C:" or "D:".... and you will need to understand these things so you don't accidentally overwrite or erase your Windows and recovery partitions. This is again why virtual machines can be a little easier for new users, so they can put off learning too much, too fast.

I like to remind new Linux users that they were not born Windows experts either. Folks come here who have been using Windows for many, many years... and Linux is different. It's different by design, and it takes some effort to learn it too. It is not a failure... it's not trying to be a Windows clone. If you come to Linux expecting to run a bunch of Windows-based software, you will probably be disappointed. But it most cases, whatever software you were using in Windows will have one or more "equivalent" programs that run natively in Linux. Some software is available for both, like Firefox, so these can help make the transition easier.

Chiming in with Wiz and Condo... yes, you can overwrite your Linux partitions with new Linux anytime. Your trouble will come up if you delete your Linux partitions as you will hose up the bootloader and Windows will likely not boot either. But this is fairly easily fixed. Besides making a "Windows Recovery" (on USB or multiple DVD's)... you can also use Windows to make a "Start Disk" (CD or DVD). These are good to have around anyway. A Windows Start Disk will let you boot the computer and restore a Windows bootloader using a tool called, "bootrec.exe". But you shouldn't need this unless you eliminate Linux altogether.

Just home from a 9-hour drive. Time to shower, and drown myself in beer.

Cheers

 

[Bluetrix]

Oh great wiz,
Grub and gparted sound right up my alley.
Perhaps I was a bit drastic saying wipe the drive and start over.
Remove and replace was really my intent. I 'was' thinking worst case scenario though.

As for having a recourse should things go downhill, I learned long ago from Fred Langa the 3 most important words in computing.
Backup, backup, backup.

I have a 1TB external I only use for backing up my files and related windows junk. Imaged my drive(s) and do weekly updates to the backup. I've been down the river of BSOD without a paddle before, once was enough.

If I could respond to the below privately in a PM I would, but I'll keep it short and in good humor.

You said:
Suggested reading
https://renewablepcs.wordpress.com/about-linux/kde-gnome-or-xfce/

I say; Et tu,Brute?
Holy cow Batman, it's cognitive dissonance.
That site may make good reading if I were going to a symposium on Linux. I was blurry eyed 1/4 the way thru it, dizzy even.
I'm sure he knew what he was taking about, I'm certain you did.
Try something simpler for us wannabees like:
https://itsfoss.com/best-linux-beginners/

All in good spirit, :-D
Bluetrix

 

[Bluetrix]

Perhaps you're right, but my perception is a little different. I think "the rub" for most Windows users is Windows itself... and/or Microsoft and their business practices (forced updates, 50-page Privacy Statement, etc). People are tired of it and frustrated by it. They want something different! And they end up here (or elsewhere) and they start to learn that there is a bigger world in desktop computing than just Microsoft (or Apple).

Truer words were never spoke. I'm on that page.

However, we may differ on the meaning/definition of 'most' when it comes to Windows users. I know it's true many people want something different and a lot probably agree with your sentiments, but will they ever act. I don't think 'most' will. I can only speak for myself though.

We are talking about different factions of users. Many want, few actually will do. You've been around long enough to know most windows users are sheep, willing to be led anywhere. M$ knows this and force feeds the herd whatever it feels like feeding them, and the sheep calmly accept their fate. I think a large amount of computer users today are in the "I want it now" category, learning a new way of doing things isn't in their wheelhouse.

How proud I hear former Windows users thump their chests, claiming to have found enlightenment having bought a Mac. So~K, at least they are smiling. To each their own, but I'm not switching to a Mac. I like tinkering with stuff. Generally that's a no-no on a Mac.

Lets agree to 'almost' disagree.
Bluetrix

 

[Bluetrix]

Plenty of choices.......so many. (like a dog with a couple of tails...sometimes it is hard to know which one to wag first )

I do like that analogy.

A poster on AskWoody loves Mint, and it's mostly what I've been reading about. Decisions, decisions, decisions ... yeah I understand, try one and move on to something different if it doesn't make you happy.

Thanks for the input.
Bluetrix

 

[wizardfromoz]

https://itsfoss.com/best-linux-beginners/

I've got those 6 running currently - typing this from Zorin at the moment, where I am about to run updates. It's FOSS is a good site to bookmark, if you have not already.

The author is a little out of date only insofar as the Zorin Look Changer and Zorin Theme Changer have now been combined into one Zorin Appearance. Choice of 3 looks to your desktop.

Cheers

Wiz

 

[atanere]

However, we may differ on the meaning/definition of 'most' when it comes to Windows users. I know it's true many people want something different and a lot probably agree with your sentiments, but will they ever act. I don't think 'most' will. I can only speak for myself though.

We are talking about different factions of users. Many want, few actually will do. You've been around long enough to know most windows users are sheep, willing to be led anywhere. M$ knows this and force feeds the herd whatever it feels like feeding them, and the sheep calmly accept their fate. I think a large amount of computer users today are in the "I want it now" category, learning a new way of doing things isn't in their wheelhouse.

How proud I hear former Windows users thump their chests, claiming to have found enlightenment having bought a Mac. So~K, at least they are smiling. To each their own, but I'm not switching to a Mac. I like tinkering with stuff. Generally that's a no-no on a Mac.

Lets agree to 'almost' disagree.

Yeah, I don't think I got my phrasing quite right. By "most" I don't mean all Windows users. Many of them are happy right where they are. But I mean that most (in my opinion) Windows users who are searching out Linux or other options are dissatisfied with their current situation with Windows and/or Microsoft. But we do lose some new users because they believe Linux to be too difficult, or they don't want to put forth the effort to learn new things. Actually, I think I agree with all of your comments above.

A poster on AskWoody loves Mint, and it's mostly what I've been reading about. Decisions, decisions, decisions ... yeah I understand, try one and move on to something different if it doesn't make you happy.

For your first distro, you can't hardly go wrong with Linux Mint. The Cinnamon and MATE desktops are both traditional "Windows-like" that you should be able to navigate easily. Mint is capable of installing on a newer UEFI-based motherboard (all of them since Win 8) without needing to make changes in the BIOS/UEFI setup. Mint almost always will make your sound and wireless work without any trouble. Mint also works well on older hardware as long as it has enough RAM.... my daily desktop computer is from 2009 and runs Mint MATE. Mint is good for both beginners and seasoned Linux users. It is rock solid. (No, they aren't paying me to advertise! )

We do like to encourage folks to try several with DVD or USB or virtual machines just so you can get a bit of a feel for what some of the differences are before a bare metal installation, but you can always try new Linux later at any time. VirtualBox has a Linux version, so you can install virtual machines inside it, or inside Windows, or both. Once you get your feet wet a little, you will also realize that for all the differences between the Linux distros, there is also much the same about them.... so as you learn more, transitioning to another is not as difficult (sometimes). But you might have to watch about that UEFI thing... this is something that they have not all caught up with, and so some distros will require BIOS/UEFI changes in setup to make them work in a bare metal install.

I like tinkering with stuff.

I think you will love Linux! You can tinker just by changing distros, you can tinker by changing desktops within the same distro, you can tinker with some programs by modifying configuration files to get a different effect (check out Conky which is being discussed in another thread). If you can code, or want to learn, you can create shell scripts to help automate tasks or write complete programs... or modify the code of almost any Linux program because almost all of it is Open Source. You can install Arch Linux (a virtual machine is a great way to start) which will at first only leave you with a command line... and you then have to download and install and configure every aspect of your Arch operating system. You can try Linux From Scratch.... where you build an entire Linux system on your own, from scratch, by compiling everything from source code (not for the faint of heart). There is no end to the tinkering you can do. Yes, you will absolutely be frustrated at times if you try any or all of these things, but you will never be bored... unless you settle in with something and become just another average user, like me.

Cheers

 

[boyo1991]

I read a few replies and skimmed some, I didnt see mention of ubuntu's wubi?

Wubi doesnt work anymore, but its also just proof that it didnt work as planned. Wubi, if your unaware, was an executable for windows operating systems that installed ubuntu/lubuntu (12.04 if im not mistaken) alongside windows.

a little rummaging revealed this on the wubi wikipedia page (wikipedia, credibility is your own decision):

Compared with a regular installation, a Wubi installation faces some limitations. Hibernation is not supported and the filesystem is more vulnerable to hard reboots.[1] Also, if the Windows drive is unmounted uncleanly (Windows crash, power failure, etc.), Ubuntu will not be able to repair, re-mount, and boot from the Windows NTFS drive until Microsoft Windows has successfully booted, repaired the drive, and then shut down cleanly. If the Windows system could not be booted after the corruption to repair the filesystem, the user would also not be able to boot Ubuntu.

Performance related to hard-disk access is also slightly slower on a Wubi install, more so if the underlying disk image file is fragmented, as the disk image file in the Windows filesystem contains a Linux filesystem whereas without Wubi only the Linux filesystem is used that has direct hardware access.[1]

Wubi creates the root.disk file using Microsoft's proprietary NTFS file system while running under the MS Windows OS and then while the Ubuntu OS is running it accesses that file using an alternative file system driver. The differences between the Microsoft and Linux implementations of NTFS could technically result in corruption of the root.disk file that affects the NTFS filesystem in such a way that it could even prevent Windows from booting. Running chkdsk /r from MS Windows to fix the damaged NTFS file system and then shutting down Windows cleanly may fix any corruptions (this may take a significant amount of time to run as root.disk is a large file).[6]

 

[Bluetrix]

I am probably going to have to move to a different topic, but bear with me for now please.
Done the DL, Mint19 Tara. Wanted 18.3, Linux.com isn't up or just not responding to my handshake eh.

Created directory on my external 1T ssd (F:iso) for DL, 1.8G. I will for now boot from there to experiment with Linux leaving my win10 alone on it's own HD.

Verifying Mint 19 Tara, I wanted to verify using Gpg4win tool.

The instruction's on "Howtogeek" site says:
"Locate your Linux distro’s signing key file and checksum files."
Where do I locate those files? Probably a nube question if there ever was one. If I seem confused it's because I am

HTG suggests Fedora as an example.

FYI, the last time I used any code was on a TI99 with a cassette tape as a hard drive. (though I do know basic stuff for DOS like, ms.config, etc.

I was looking to verify without opening the Mint program. It is suggested I get the files and "Key" from a different location than the DL site. Redundant security is reason stated.
... help?
james

 

[wizardfromoz]

Hi James, 'morning from DownUnder

Go to https://linuxmint.com/download_all.php and choose your Mintie, right down to the DE (Desktop Environment).

Say it is Tara Cinnamon, 64-bit, you will get to https://linuxmint.com/edition.php?id=254 and from there choose "verify your ISO".

You can also verify the hashsum from within the Live CD/DVD/USB environment by going to Terminal.

I'm going to pause this train of thought because I believe James may have some more questions elsewhere.

Wizard

 

[Bluetrix]

You can skip the DVD/USB if instead you use virtualization software. You can create a Linux virtual machine in Windows

I decided this was worth a try (yes I am stubborn)
A brief synopsis on my attempt:

Install VMware Workstation
DL *new* Tara iso to desktop (windows10 home)
Open VM to run Tara.
VT-x not enabled error. Reboot holding shift key, enter bios and enable VT-x
.
VM open again.
[screen] "Preparing to install Linux Mint"
I install 3rd party graphics as suggested on screen. [continue]

[screen] Installation Type
(list of options)

1)Erase disk:<-- I wasn't sure it wouldn't erase win10, what do I know
2)Encrypt:
3)Use LVM:
4)Something Else: <-- selected this
End up with:

"No root file system is defined.
Please correct this from the partitioning menu"

I had a new partition size set at 20Gb. (full size)
I left /dev/sda. alone.

Probably none of the above makes sense, it is the abbreviated edition from James. Besides, the above isn't really about Linux, just my inability to open Linux and try it out.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled station. I will revisit the possibilities in the near future. Somehow I am making this way more difficult than it should be. I yam smarter than this exhibition. Reading about it all ... again.
"Honey, have you seen the aspirins?"

Bluetrix

 

[Bluetrix]

I finally made it!
I type this from my virtual machine running Mint, Tara version.
Perhaps I should call it Terror not Tara.
I suppose once I learn how to make this screen and type larger I'll be happier, instead of squinting so hard.
Learned what sudo and apt-get is .... time for a nap.
Bluetrix

 

[atanere]

I suppose once I learn how to make this screen and type larger I'll be happier, instead of squinting so hard.

Well done! The display resolution can be adjusted from the "Displays" app.... open your Start Menu and begin typing "displays" (without quotes) and it will soon appear so you can open it up. You'll need to maintain the aspect ratio of your monitor, but you'll find the right setting after picking one and saving it a few times, if it takes even that many.

I don't have any experience with VMware, but it should work fine. I've used VirtualBox in the past (from Oracle) and there are others besides these two as well.

Now with one virtual machine under your belt, the next one should be easier!

Cheers

 

[wizardfromoz]

Yer killing me, James We love a bit of humour.

Is it Cinnamon or MATE you are running, makes a difference on where some things are found. eg Font Size/type. The name on the .iso will tell you if you don't recall. Or start to type in Welcome at Menu and it says.

At Terminal, it is

echo $DESKTOP_SESSION

...instead of squinting so hard

I wear reading glasses and driving glasses, but you don't have to be visually challenged for a Thread I am starting soon.

See here and see (pun) what you think.

Cheers

Wiz