Why are some distros harder to use than others?

L

lend27

Guest
I have tried several different Linux distros.
Some are stated to be for new users.
Some are stated to be for intermediate users.
Others are stated to be for advanced users.

The only difference I can see is the amount of frustration involved getting everything setup and working.
Drivers for example are configured easily in Linux Mint and Ubuntu, yet with Debian it is so much more work.
Broadcom wifi and Nvidia graphics drivers are a good example. Plain Debian struggles with both, yet so called beginner distros have them working OOTB. Why?

So my question is, why are some distros deliberately made more difficult to setup?
Is it because advanced users enjoy the extra work involved? Is it because they love frustration?
Wouldn't it make more sense to make all distros equally easy to setup your system hardware etc?
I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone would go through all that crap with plain Debian when Linux Mint or Ubuntu would get them up and running so much faster.

Can anyone explain please?

Thanks
Len
 


What you seem to see as "essential options" other people see as "bloat." Not everyone needs Broadcom wifi or Nvidia support. Debian is an excellent desktop distro, but you would probably find it used more in a server role than a desktop, and as a server it would not likely need many of those "options" you crave.

But also what you are experiencing is Debian's desire to provide a "free" system, one that does not encourage the use of non-free components by default, like Linux Mint. Each distro walks their own path regarding free versus non-free, and you shouldn't fault Debian or those who wish to remain as free as possible.

Still, the reality is that often non-free components (like drivers) are needed. I just did a full install of Jessie the other day on a laptop, and it reported that I needed two non-free drivers. A quick Google for the drivers found them nicely packaged in .deb files on Debian's own website. I put the .deb files on a USB stick, inserted into the laptop, and the installation finished just fine, with all hardware working. This really was not hard to do!

As you pointed out, Linux Mint and Ubuntu are great starter distros for new users, or just for ease of setup and use. I use Mint myself most of the time. But I also like to learn a little now and then, and you don't get much learning from spoon-fed distros or from pre-installed systems. Learning is part of the fun, for me. I don't want all distros to work OOTB, as you put it. I don't want them all to use the same desktop, or package manager. I think that the variety is awesome! And I have the "freedom" to choose. So do you.
 
I do see what you mean...but for someone like me who would prefer to use plain Debian, why is there not a version available with a driver manager to help people like me over the rough spots. I'm not saying that every driver configuration has to be covered, but the more common ones like Nvidia, ATI, Broadcom etc would help.

I like to learn also, but it would seem to me that my time would be better spent actually learning the linux CLI than searching for drivers online. Locating those drivers is not always easy, and it would be nice to have a bit of help up front. Then once our desktop is set and all devices are functioning, we can get on with actually learning.

The frustrating part is when we think we have located the answer to our problem, and implement it incorrectly for lack of experience, we then have to do a full reinstall. It's hard to learn on a non-functioning desktop. Creating a functional desktop for the average user should be job one. The lack of it drives users to other distros. I believe that Debian should hold onto those users, and not lose them to another distro.

I did install the new Debian 8 and had much less issues, so progress is being made.
I guess my feeling is that Debian deserves a larger user base, and ease of install would help accomplish that.
 
atanere said:
What you seem to see as "essential options" other people see as "bloat." Not everyone needs Broadcom wifi or Nvidia support. Debian is an excellent desktop distro, but you would probably find it used more in a server role than a desktop, and as a server it would not likely need many of those "options" you crave.

But also what you are experiencing is Debian's desire to provide a "free" system, one that does not encourage the use of non-free components by default, like Linux Mint. Each distro walks their own path regarding free versus non-free, and you shouldn't fault Debian or those who wish to remain as free as possible.

Still, the reality is that often non-free components (like drivers) are needed. I just did a full install of Jessie the other day on a laptop, and it reported that I needed two non-free drivers. A quick Google for the drivers found them nicely packaged in .deb files on Debian's own website. I put the .deb files on a USB stick, inserted into the laptop, and the installation finished just fine, with all hardware working. This really was not hard to do!

As you pointed out, Linux Mint and Ubuntu are great starter distros for new users, or just for ease of setup and use. I use Mint myself most of the time. But I also like to learn a little now and then, and you don't get much learning from spoon-fed distros or from pre-installed systems. Learning is part of the fun, for me. I don't want all distros to work OOTB, as you put it. I don't want them all to use the same desktop, or package manager. I think that the variety is awesome! And I have the "freedom" to choose. So do you.
Click to expand...
You beat me to it..... :) D'oh!..... :D
 
1) Make sure that your sources list contains: main contrib non-free
2) The script smxi makes the installation of many driver simpler: http://smxi.org/

Debian prides itself on giving people "open source software" so it does not initially give non-free, firmware or proprietary software. It is , however, available but you need be responsible for adding it.
 
OK, thanks for your help and advice.
I will check that out.

Len
 
blackneos940 said:
Well, how did it go.....? :3 Is it workin'.....? :3
Click to expand...
Didn't work.
I found the driver but it's a source file and I'm not all that familiar with the process of installing those. I am trying to find instructions to install.



Just have to find out how to install it :)

Len
 
The install instructions are usually included. Download the file you need, double-click it and you should be prompted to unpack the .tar file. Look in the extracted folder for files like README and/or INSTALL. Hopefully you will find your answers there. The compiling steps can vary a little from package to package, but they often look something like:

./configure
make
make install

These are terminal commands, and you may need to put "sudo" (without quotes) before each command. Again, hopefully the README or INSTALL will be more specific.

Compiling from source is good training for you, but of course is it not much fun. Were you not informed during the installation that you needed non-free drivers, like I described in my experience installing Jessie? Or could you not find a .deb file with what you need? It's a shame that you are having a tough time with this. But in learning any new thing, it gets a little easier as you go along and get some experience.

Good luck!
 
ryanvade said:
All of Intel's graphics drivers are opensource. @arochester is Debian not including Intel graphics drivers in their repositories?
Click to expand...
It is including. I have Intel HD Graphics 4000 and everything is working even since Squeeze as I hadn't tried prior releases.

Nvidia has been always painful for Debian and Linux at all.
 
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