To really appreciate Linux you have to return to Windows

[Terminal Velocity]

I had to make a Windows laptop to run the Safe Exam Browser for an exam I had to do, so I used an old laptop. After I was done with the exam I thought why not keep it as it is and play some games that I have long time to play because I'm in to Linux for 5 years now. So I installed Diablo 2 Lord of destruction and went straight for its online multiplayer. it still holds on well as a game after a quarter of a century and also has enough people playing online

The thing is that it was quite straight forward the whole setup, I downloaded some things from here and there, I put some CD keys that I have for a quarter of a century and I was in... Such quality software with such straight forward setup is not a common thing in Linux. I miss the Windows software, Linux is still underdeveloped when it comes to entertainment and professional tools

I hope one day Linux become a substantial market and more developers take it seriously, until then I decided to maintain a Windows computer for the things that can't be done in Linux or are a great hassle. I don't give up Linux, I will be around

 

[APTI]

I have found quite the opposite. windows stuff takes much to make it work. However that is current software. I think you are also going back in time on that. A time when programmers took the care to do it right. If you compare new stuff you will see why Linux is better.
Linux software on my Fedora set ups is very straight forward and easy. All dependencies taken care of and rare that there are problems.
I think with the direction windoze is going there will be many more moving to linux, but most will go apple because they only know what marketing people tell them.

 

[CptKrf]

If I make any technical comments on Windows, it would just be trolling as I have not used Redmond software since XP days. That being said, I do not understand why a user would put up with advertisements on their own desktop, be told that this or that utility cannot be turned off on a machine that THEY OWN, and accept updates being forced down their throats and even to the extent of powering down and rebooting without asking.

The other two OS's are very familiar to me.

Going with Apple is not all bad if you are a mainstream computer user (and have money). The overall use is very smooth and as much as I hate to say it, considerably more coherent than Linux. Their hardware quality is second to none - I wish I could purchase a Linux tower case with that level of polished build excellence.

However, as a programmer (now retired and coding for hobby only) not inside of that closed compound, Apple is a nightmare. Every time a new version comes out, something is changed - and usually for no apparent reason - that breaks non-Apple things. Unless you are coding in Xcode and only for apps that will run on Apple devices, any attempt to use an "unsupported" language (perl, ruby, C++, etc) is an exercise in frustration, with your work-arounds killed in the next update and hours (or days or never) spent in trying to get them to work again. And now, with the latest release of Sequoia, programs that are not approved by Apple DO NOT RUN without hacking BSD from underneath, so decades of neat programs and utilites are obsoleted unless you have some Unix skills to bypass their security.

From a programmer standpoint, Linux doesn't change. I can compile code today that was written in 2001 with the same CLI command that was used back then, or compile current code with a command from 20 years ago. Updates don't break things deliberately, don't require a subscription, and don't collect data. That being said, I agree with the original poster that some things in Linux are a hassle, and a few things that should be simple that are just a complete PITA.

(A happening Gotcha. Microsoft is weaseling their way into the distro libraries with the travesty called Mono, AKA, dot Net - the epitome of bloatware. Want to load a small utility that normally would be a few K in size, but now written in Mono and takes a hundred libraries and a zillion bytes? And, for whatever reason, loads over a hundred new root certificates to your machine. Then you need to do an apt-search for Mono in the library list for that apt.)

Right now, I use a nice Apple desktop for banking, email, etc - canned stuff that everybody has to do these days. But after, I swivel my chair around to a Debian desktop to create stuff that I know will run next year without subscription, drm, certificate expiration or "Error! "Attempt to open an unknown application."

 

[wizardfromoz]

To really appreciate Linux you have to return to Windows​

...Naahhh, I don't, lol.

I just appreciate Linux for the features and flexibility and security it provides.

I bought my first computer in 1992, with Windows 3.1 on it, but having used it at work and elsewhere since the 2.x series.

If I had known in 1992 what Linux Torvalds was working on, I could have saved 25 years in battling with Windows.

...but different strokes for different folks.

 

[Fanboi]

TBH, find Linux way easier than Windows. Maybe coz my first PC was a 286 running MSDOS, and when I got Windows 3.1 -- note that it was just a graphical shell, akin to X11 + a DE -- I had to drop out of Windows to do things in DOS. GUIs can be very useful, but they can also obfuscate things. It's easier to open a config file, search for a key, change it and save (~10-20 seconds) vs wading through "Edit -> Preferences" ... no... "Tools -> Prefences" ... no... "File -> config"... no... Ah, f**k this! Console. I don't worry what's going on on top. Yes, things change (systemd in Debian), but they're slower and what makes Linux great is you can say No. I move with the standards, just because it makes troubleshooting and getting help easier. But you can go to Devuan. Or Antix/MX. Or Void... and so on. But the thing I like most of all is the feeling of security and autonomy: my system will not do things I don't permit. I could, if inclined, gather a group of like-minded folk and we could develop an alternative for XYZ package/thing/concept (the latter being what the NixOS folk are doing -- kudos to them and maybe one day I'll take it for a spin). I know I can safely install things from my repo without breakage (why I don't do rolling) and spyware. Sure, not all code is perfectly audited, but the fact that it is, well, that's a deterrent. And now with Appimages, well, we're even simpler than Windows. I know Appimages ain't perfect, but they're mature enough to be a choice for Linux versions of lots of software. While I don't like flatpaks, I will admit that it helps provide the "everyuser" more software via a simple, and most importantly secure, installation (ie per-user, not system-wide -- unless you'd want to???)
So the only thing that makes Linux "difficult" is that third-party platforms and vendors do not support it... and that is changing! Linux is 5-7% desktop markets in "western countries". In India, it's >15%! So, we're getting there. Once over the third-party hurdle, there will be nothing anyone can say is easier on Windows (relatively, some people prefer certain ways of doing things).

 

[CptKrf]

...Naahhh, I don't, lol.

I just appreciate Linux for the features and flexibility and security it provides.

I bought my first computer in 1992, with Windows 3.1 on it, but having used it at work and elsewhere since the 2.x series.

If I had known in 1992 what Linux Torvalds was working on, I could have saved 25 years in battling with Windows.

...but different strokes for different folks.

You had a company that actually used Win 2.x? That was a long time ago, but my employer put it on about 10 machines for use. As I was already an "old timer" hacker (1975 Altair, believe it or not) I got the chore of setting them up. Unfortunately, while I had a lot of fun with them, they absolutely could not be made to run for longer than ten minutes without locking up. And it didn't take long for the bosses secretary to speak up after five or six losses of the entire file when entering data into Visicalc. And as I remember it, the girls working for the CFO and CPO and other bigwigs were somewhat vocal also, to say the least...

Back to DOS...

 

[rado84]

until then I decided to maintain a Windows computer

I'd rather run a VM with Windows 10/11 than ever installing that... thing. In fact, a few days ago I ran a VM with Windows 7. A VM makes it a lot easier to get rid of it, if and when needed + the Winblows doesn't get a physical access to the filesystems. I already know what Winblows is capable of doing to filesystems it doesn't like or doesn't recognize, so I'm not taking any chances with it anymore. Not to mention that with Win in a VM, I get to keep my newest SSD empty where very soon I'm gonna install another Arch with KDE whose purpose will be gaming only cuz despite all of its flaws, KDE is the best desktop for playing games.

 

[Terminal Velocity]

I'd rather run a VM with Windows 10/11 than ever installing that... thing. In fact, a few days ago I ran a VM with Windows 7. A VM makes it a lot easier to get rid of it, if and when needed + the Winblows doesn't get a physical access to the filesystems. I already know what Winblows is capable of doing to filesystems it doesn't like or doesn't recognize, so I'm not taking any chances with it anymore. Not to mention that with Win in a VM, I get to keep my newest SSD empty where very soon I'm gonna install another Arch with KDE whose purpose will be gaming only cuz despite all of its flaws, KDE is the best desktop for playing games.

I've done dual boot computers in the past and I don't like the idea very much, VMs are good but many programs don't run with virtualization... like Safe Exam Browser for example. What I did is to dedicate a whole laptop to Windows, I have 3, and as a fresh install it runs snappy and with no problems. I know that Windows installations do not age well, there's nothing like Debian when it comes to stability and longevity

 

[rado84]

don't run with virtualization... like Safe Exam Browser for example

Considering the following description, that doesn't make much sense. The browser shouldn't care or even know how it's being run.

 

[Terminal Velocity]

Considering the following description, that doesn't make much sense. The browser shouldn't care or even know how it's being run.

View attachment 22707

Safe Exam Browser - Windows User Manual

safeexambrowser.org

''SEB detects when it was started in a virtual instead of a native environment and refuses to run, if not explicitly allowed to. This virtual machine detection helps avoiding manipulation of the exam environment when SEB is used in unmanaged environments.''

 

[Zev]

I only ever really use Windows on my Gaming Rig when I want to hop into PCVR using my Quest 2, and certain games that feature Anti-Cheat that explicitly excludes Linux, and even then it is relegated to an old 250 GB SATA ssd, while Gentoo Linux has its very own 512 GB PCI-E 4.0 m.2 drive.

I also have an ASUS ROG Ally (Non-Extreme) for gaming on the go and on the couch, I have kept Windows 11 on it because I treat it as a gaming console rather than a computer proper.