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This persistent Ubuntu/Mint/Fedora/Debian bug probably has something to do with windowing or desktop environments

CrazedNerd

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So I'm happy today to have finally made some more insights into this problem i've had with bootup ever since I installed these distributions on the desktop computer i built almost a year ago:

-it is a linux distro or desktop environment bug, it is not a hardware problem

-the exact source of the problem (freezing around startup time) is still not known, i don't even know enough about this to make a bug report to any of the developers.

My interest in figuring this out came back because it completely went away when I installed the full KDE package on Ubuntu. I always update Ubuntu whenever there are any updates. I installed KDE full with the info in this link:


I'm going to describe my problem below in full detail, and my experiment today prompted by the fact that I noticed my issue went away after doing this.

THE BUG

Regardless of distribution, occurring around every 10-20 times i booted my computer, the screen would just freeze around the time I would log in. Moving my mouse or typing on the keyboard doesn't change anything. I always have to power off my computer with the power button. Maybe some sort of REISUB thing would work but I just can't test that because i don't have a print screen key on my current keyboard. I've found over the time i've had this computer build (i've only been using the linux distros above during this time), that when my screen freezes, it would do so in a variety of ways. Sometimes I get a solid white screen, sometimes I get splotchy colors, solid black, solid purple, but the freezing remains persistent. I currently have Ubuntu and Ubuntu Studio installed as a dual boot setup. Ubuntu Studio has KDE Plasma, but I was able to reproduce the problem I'm talking about exactly 3 times today. Interestingly on KDE Plasma, i sometimes get problems before the login screen, sometimes after. Before I changed my desktop environment on standard Ubuntu, I kept getting variants of this problem on a fairly regular basis, I estimated approximately one out of every 20 boots, and that was the basis for this experiment today.

THE EXPERIMENT

Today, i booted and rebooted each partition (Ubuntu and Ubuntu Studio) 20 times. When I rebooted Ubuntu Studio, I got the expected problem I've been experiencing on the 11th, 19th, and 20th time during the login screen: it would sit there for a couple of seconds (probably 2 seconds, because i never have time to enter my password when this happens:
20221027_112728.jpg


Like i stated above, pressing buttons on the keyboard and mouse doesn't do anything or cause any helpful changes. I've been having this problem with 3 separate monitors over the period since i've had this build, so we can rule out the monitor being a possible issue.

However, I tested my Ubuntu partition the same number of times today (with KDE full version in installed like the link above tells you how to do) and i did not experience any freezes at the login screen. The login is interesting though, btw:

20221023_211736.jpg


If you mess up your user password, then it takes you to a more normal looking screen with a debian logo and standard input bar for your password, and also contains a drop down menu in the corner so you can change aspects of your desktop. In my case, i'm only going to mess with that with caution, i have found that the expression "if it ain't broke, then don't fix it" to be one of the best expressions...i will talk about what those options are in this thread at some point though. I'm just happy that i actually learned something about this (what appears to be a windowing) problem. I also thought it might be systemd related given all the controversy around that.

In this video below, there's talk about the problems with systemd, but ultimately in coding the problems tend to be more specific...obviously the problem i outlined above isn't inseparable from that infamous process:


Upvote this thread if you find my dark apparition to be sexy.

During the login screen, i can choose between windowing systems (xorg, unity, wayland, etc.) This is a good thread for discussing windowing systems and talking about problems you might have had with them.
 
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CrazedNerd

CrazedNerd

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For some reason, KDE full version has started doing the same thing at about the same rate i described earlier. Looks like nobody understands (or cares about) the source of this bug...
 

f33dm3bits

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I switched to the Fedora KDE Spin a couple of months ago, so then I can conclude that I have booted my system at least 90 times since then and I have never come across this bug that you have described above.
 

Old Tom Bombadil

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Regardless of distribution, occurring around every 10-20 times i booted my computer, the screen would just freeze around the time I would log in.
You've only named Ubuntu (plus Ubuntu Studio)... have you tried others? I've run Fedora Cinnamon for about a year now with hundreds of reboots... and no freezing on startup.

Since your trouble is at boot time, you may be having a "race condition"... where two or more processes are trying to access the same resources at the same time. If you have a "Startup Applications" app in Ubuntu, you might review what's listed there, and possibly disable some you don't need or add time delays to some that you may think suspicious... especially for programs or scripts that you may have added to the Startup that were not part of the original Ubuntu.
 
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CrazedNerd

CrazedNerd

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You've only named Ubuntu (plus Ubuntu Studio)...
No silly, i named all the distros in the title. I think it's kinda funny that i said specifically that ive been having this issue for a long time now, yet people are still assuming it's because of something i did.

I currently only have ubuntu and studio, since i use these on a regular basis, my capacity to test things is limited...since the problem came back, it could have something to do with hardware.
 

Old Tom Bombadil

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Oops, my bad. Sorry. But now your title also seems inaccurate since the trouble no longer seems confined to windowing or DE's.

Still... a "bug" should be repeatable by others. @f33dm3bits and I have told you that we've not had the same trouble (with a distro you've named). I test a lot of distros fairly regularly with various desktops... and still never run into this trouble. It may be something you did (distro settings or BIOS settings), or it may be hardware as you now acknowledge, though you doubted hardware at first.

There are many examples on forums everywhere of a distro freezing on startup. You might find your "repeatable bug" is shared by others if you look. At least you will find a number of potential ways to fix it... maybe the right one.

Good luck!

PS. You might want to remove the link in your signature since it no longer works.
 
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CrazedNerd

CrazedNerd

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Oops, my bad. Sorry. But now your title also seems inaccurate since the trouble no longer seems confined to windowing or DE's.

Still... a "bug" should be repeatable by others. @f33dm3bits and I have told you that we've not had the same trouble (with a distro you've named). I test a lot of distros fairly regularly with various desktops... and still never run into this trouble. It may be something you did (distro settings or BIOS settings), or it may be hardware as you now acknowledge, though you doubted hardware at first.

There are many examples on forums everywhere of a distro freezing on startup. You might find your "repeatable bug" is shared by others if you look. At least you will find a number of potential ways to fix it... maybe the right one.

Good luck!

PS. You might want to remove the link in your signature since it no longer works.
Thats why im really suspicous of it having to do with hardware, something with the display circuits on the mobo. I had a windows desktop for years...i had this startup issue where the bios would freeze every once in a while. I changed the RAM like 3 times so in the end i think it was probably something to do with the mobo as well.

The mobo im using is a rare mini-itx motherboard, so it could be that the linux devs just didn't design it with my motherboard in mind, and i wouldn't blame them for that. Since i'm using solid state hard drives, then this bug isn't a big deal especially since i back up my most important info on the regular.
 
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CrazedNerd

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PS. You might want to remove the link in your signature since it no longer works.
Yeah it seems like the government wants me to have a slower and more of a frustrating experience reading books, great. Thanks much for telling me about that. Glad i was able to download stuff from that site while it lasted.
 

Bartman

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I've haven't had any problem with any Linux distro freezing on any of my Frankenstein desktops.

In this video below, there's talk about the problems with systemd, but ultimately in coding the problems tend to be more specific...obviously the problem i outlined above isn't inseparable from that infamous process:
I run both systemd and no systemd Linux distros and I can't tell a difference between systemd and no systemd distros guess ya have to be a Linux geek or Linux guru.

During the login screen, i can choose between windowing systems (xorg, unity, wayland, etc.) This is a good thread for discussing windowing systems and talking about problems you might have had with them.
I use Wayland in Ubuntu 22.04 and it works good on my Frankenstein desktops.
 
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CrazedNerd

CrazedNerd

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I've haven't had any problem with any Linux distro freezing on any of my Frankenstein desktops.


I run both systemd and no systemd Linux distros and I can't tell a difference between systemd and no systemd distros guess ya have to be a Linux geek or Linux guru.


I use Wayland in Ubuntu 22.04 and it works good on my Frankenstein desktops.
To sum up that video, he basically says that the only problem with systemd is that it remains attached to every other process, and that the anti-sysd tribalism of the linux community doesn't have much of a real basis.

Im tempted to think my 5600g processor might also have something to with it, no matter what it is i can only keep trying different things.
 
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Bartman

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Thats Systemd"s job is to hang on to everything as it is basically like one big program that manages everything.

The only freezing display problem I've ever experianced using any Linux distro was related to an Nvidia graphics card and the open source Nouveau graphics driver.
 

wizardfromoz

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Crazy, my input here may only help to eliminate possibilities.

As you know, I run 78 Distros from 4 Families on my Dell rig, and I have yet to experience something such as you describe.

To my mind, it can only be hardware or drivers.

Good luck.

Chris
 

osprey

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Lord Boltar wrote:
more like a Graphics-CPU issue
One way to try and exclude the "graphics problem", whether it's a graphics driver or graphics hardware issue, is to run the machine in text mode for a duration of time significantly longer than the time in which the expected problems occur. If the problem persists, other variables are probably involved, but if not, then one can concentrate on adjustments to the graphics system. In following this sort of "testing" of the problem, it's still possible to run with text mode applications to access the internet and follow one's browsing interests with text mode browsers like elinks, lynx, w3m etc., it's just that's there's a learning curve in doing it.
 
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CrazedNerd

CrazedNerd

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Post system specs may or may not help worth doing imo.
Not only that, i looked at system logs a long time ago and nothing appeared relevant to what happens before your log in.
 

f33dm3bits

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I would start my upgrading your motherboard's firmware/bios/uefi to the most recent available version to see if that does anything.
 
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CrazedNerd

CrazedNerd

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I would start my upgrading your motherboard's firmware/bios/uefi to the most recent available version to see if that does anything.
Yeah i went ahead and updated the BIOS and the problem has been solved, it has been about 13 days and could come back but i think it worked.

There has been issues with the BIOS in AM4 motherboards...a lot of them were being sold as "ryzen 5 ready" but i discovered through experience with the other desktop i built that this just wasn't the case. This computer is actually the only one i've used with an AM4 that had a functioning BIOS with a ryzen 5 processor...with other boards i tried (this was a year ago...) i had to plug the HDMI cable into a graphics card before it would work. Updating the BIOS on those also didn't work if you had a ryzen 5 processor, i was told you have to switch to ryzen 3 in order to update the BIOS. I feel kinda dumb that i didn't try updating the BIOS, but i'm just glad i've learned that the BIOS is an incredibly important part of the troubleshooting process for shit that just doesn't work.
 
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