Thank you Linux

[gransar]

Hi. I wanted to say thanks to the Linux community.. for me, linux was love at the first sight, and a safe-space.
I wanted to talk about the fragmentation in the community. Why is it that distro-hopping is so painful, like you have to kick the former date out the car for the new date because there is no room to go back and forth. And the assumption is that a distro is for forever, when I think most people distro-hop to find their goldilock.
Unfortunately there is no effort taken to take the user-experience and transfer to the next distro in some way. I think it would be more efficient to install the core once and let users explore back and fourth. Because right now every distro is focusing on how they are different they are less focus is given to the teaching the user about the core. The distro is like an avatar, or clothes and linux is like the body. With the right realigning everyone will not be doing the same thing and they can work toward serving the core.

 

[ML_113]

Welcome to the forum !
As for me I took on Linux as a mean to stop senility in the old age - "what you don't use you loose".
I used to meditate on the messages that were thrown at me when I worked on a mid-frame IBM platform. Linux helps my brain greased, but not too much please.
Yes, it saves me bundle avoiding buying new stuff.
Walking and Linux keep us healthy for a long long time.

 

[Zev]

Welcome!

I can see where you are coming from, and I do believe that the points that you are making are fairly reasonable and sensible, but unlike Windows or Mac OS, Linux Distributions are not a single, monolithic project, and there are no two distros that are exactly the same.

This makes the possibility of distro-hopping seamlessly from, say, Arch to Debian, two distributions that could not possibly be any more different (Arch adds new software to its repositories nearly as quickly as it comes out of the oven, and Debian focuses on stability, and is often fairly behind other distributions as far as available software goes) incredibly difficult due to fundamental differences between the two.

Achieving what you proposed would likely necessitate a merger between all of the major distribution maintainers and developers under a single banner, and this is fairly unlikely because Linux is not really Windows nor does it attempt to emulate it, and this is in an hypothetical ideal scenario in that there were no differences in opinion, goals or mindset between developers (one of the main reasons why there are so many different distributions, not all developers share the same goals or priorities).

Ultimately Linux espouses freedom and choice, in the Microsoft and Apple ecosystems you are limited to only a single choice, or maybe a couple of choices, as far as the operating system that you choose is concerned, in Linux the choice ultimately falls onto you, the end-user, to choose a distribution that best serves your needs, and while I do agree that distro-hopping is not as user friendly as upgrading, say, between Windows versions (I assume at least, I do not use Windows), in my eyes it is a small price to pay for the freedom of choice and the amount of options available to me as an user.

 

[bob466]

Welcome to the Forum,

Linux stands for freedom...you can choose any Distro and if you don't like it try another unlike that other OS.

Every Distro is different that's the beauty of it...just like cars...who would want them all to be the same.

 

[wizardfromoz]

G'day @gransar and welcome to linux.org

I'll trot out a snippet of text I sometimes provide new Members with

Just in case of any misapprehension on your part, we are not an official arm nor organ of Linux, just scored the dot org name - we are manned by volunteer staff who share a love of Linux and have varying skills in various departments.

So thanks for the thanks, but we didn't do it.

Friday here in Oz, so enjoy your Linux and

Avagudweegend

Chris Turner
wizardfromoz

 

[sphen]

So thanks for the thanks, but we didn't do it.

True, but you can be blamed for "providing material support" as well as "aiding and abetting."

 

[gransar]

hm... I also wanted to say that distro representation is always going to be an issue in some way or other. And I have to post some place, so this is as good as it gets. So for instance the question of which destros get introduced: the top 24? 124? why not always one more that is left out. What is the measure? Unless you create a new criteria like "hop-friendly" and then a committee that awards this to distros that meet the criteria. Also, I just wanted to add that linux community can take the same approach that drupal and wordpress do with users in terms of seeing them as providers. like the idea that everyone will want to have their own custom distro eventually.

 

[CrazedNerd]

Here's how I look at it: modern operating systems are very complicated. This isn't like the days of DOS in terms of computer usage: operating systems now a days have a lot of graphical capabilities and a huge number of dependencies, and the needs for all of that varies between individuals.

Once you get used to one distro, it's hard to adapt to other distros the more and more you use it. That's because we are creatures of habit, and even the smartest people can't remember everything and get overwhelmed by large amounts of information. Therefore, you find the distro you want both through hopping and looking up information. There's a little bit of faith involved when you just look up info, but it would be hard to try every linux distribution, and some (like me) don't really want to.

If someone did want to embark on the chaotic task of trying out every system, this is how i'd recommend you do it:

-back up your important data on the cloud or some flash drive! Formatting bare metal machines will teach you more than using virtual machines.

-just install a distro.

-have a small list of certain things you will try (like, for example, try installing certain forms of software, customizing, or simply seeing what's already available)

-start over again!

I've probably tried between 6-8 linux distros, i think they are all pretty neat but i've just settled on Ubuntu. I don't like the instructions i've see online for getting good with arch, so i don't currently want to try that one, even it would be interesting and educational if i could stick with it and i had an extra machine for it. I think it's really cool that there's Peropesis, it's the only command line only distro i've seen, even though i don't have much of a desire to use it currently.

 

[MikeWalsh]

-back up your important data on the cloud or some flash drive! Formatting bare metal machines will teach you more than using virtual machines.

^^^ +1 !!

Ab-so-lutely. Couldn't have put it better myself.

It amuses me, the sheer number of people that think VMs are the best thing since sliced bread. There's many of the veteran geek crowd over at LinuxQuestions who regularly brag about running 10, 12, even 15 distros or more in a VM. I'm sorry, but to me, all that's demonstrating is that you know how to use a VM.

I fail to see what's so special about them. Sorry an' all that....

(Mind you, it's a bit like "follow-my-leader" over there. The regular crowd, that is. One started playing with VMs, within a few weeks everybody was running 'em. One person gets an RPi, within a few weeks they're all playing with 'em...)

Talk about lemmings.


Mike.

 

[Brickwizard]

like the idea that everyone will want to have their own custom distro eventually.

Never going to happen
Very few people come direct to Linux [or are from Linux using families] all they want is a functional O.S. and majority want a GUI that they can recognise as being similar to what they are used to, for ease of use, only when they are comfortable with Linux will most then try hopping, they are not interested in spending hours building then maintaining their own distribution,

Using Windows is akin to going to a Ford dealer to buy a car, it looks good, it goes from A to B, but you know it will have reliability problems and break down occasionally
using Mac is like going to a VW dealer, they look a bit smarter than a Ford and are known to be more reliable, if a little more costly
with both the above you have little choice, a ford or VW take it or leave it

Linux is akin to going to the biggest franchise free dealership you can find, with up to 500 different makes/models you can make your own choice knowing it will be no less reliable than a ford, not as expensive as a VW and fits your needs almost perfectly.

And if you can't find exactly what you want then Linux gives you the KIT Car option of picking and choosing the bits you want and assembling them to your needs, but it will take a long time.

 

[ML_113]

No more distro hop for me.
Easy, MX (+Virtualbox) handle everything I need in my daily life.
I use to be Ubuntu then Mint fan.
The other day, I had an itch with my printer. So I tried to configure it in MX. It worked nicely ...until reboot - it drained the paper tray, even when I printed only one page. No more diddling around, thanks, I stay with my XP VM.

 

[CrazedNerd]

^^^ +1 !!

Ab-so-lutely. Couldn't have put it better myself.

It amuses me, the sheer number of people that think VMs are the best thing since sliced bread. There's many of the veteran geek crowd over at LinuxQuestions who regularly brag about running 10, 12, even 15 distros or more in a VM. I'm sorry, but to me, all that's demonstrating is that you know how to use a VM.

I fail to see what's so special about them. Sorry an' all that....

(Mind you, it's a bit like "follow-my-leader" over there. The regular crowd, that is. One started playing with VMs, within a few weeks everybody was running 'em. One person gets a RPi, within a few weeks they're all playing with 'em...

Talk about lemmings.


Mike.

They have their purposes.

 

[KGIII]

They have their purposes.

Yip. Much of the 'net is running on virtualized hardware, for example.

 

[wizardfromoz]

Never going to happen

Never say never

However, for those who have used enough Linux to know what they are looking for, there is always

Linux From Scratch

Wiz

 

[sphen]

It amuses me, the sheer number of people that think VMs are the best thing since sliced bread. There's many of the veteran geek crowd over at LinuxQuestions who regularly brag about running 10, 12, even 15 distros or more in a VM. I'm sorry, but to me, all that's demonstrating is that you know how to use a VM.

I fail to see what's so special about them. Sorry an' all that....

[...]

I am a veteran geek who thinks that virtual machines are highly flexible and useful tools. I have been using virtual machines for close to 20 years for development, testing, research, and much more. I could write many paragraphs describing all the different ways I have used virtual machines, but it would go on for pages.

Dog groomers, sculptors, most of my family, and many other ordinary people fail to see what's so special about virtual machines, so you are not alone. Virtual machines do far more than enable someone to run Linux distros. Do not put down those who appreciate virtual machines for the many capabilities that they enable.

 

[Zev]

Never say never

However, for those who have used enough Linux to know what they are looking for, there is always

Linux From Scratch

Wiz

Linux from Scratch is a project that I do wish to tackle someday, if only for the sake of the experience.

I imagine that attempting to use it as a daily driver would be quite the adventurous task, however.

In that regard, I do feel that Gentoo already fulfills the niche of having a custom Linux Distribution for me.

With the important caveat of having a system that comes with some creature comforts to make it usable and maintainable, and complete with a hand-configured kernel tailored specifically for my laptop and use case's needs and wants.

 

[MikeWalsh]

@sphen :-

I'm aware that VMs have their uses. And I'd be the last person to "knock" anyone for their choices. I just don't have any use for them myself.

It's probably fair to say that I'm more or less beyond the point of getting excited over installing/re-installing/trying-out/testing distro after distro. It doesn't hold the appeal for me it did, say, 10 years ago. My life has moved on; these days, I don't have the time to spare - read "waste" - spending hour after hour on forums like this, messing around on computers all day, etc. Doesn't mean I don't still enjoy the company or the banter, but I can no longer justify the sheer amount of time I used to spend on my 'hobby'.

A well-fettled, stable system is far more appealing these days. Especially one that is set-up exactly the way I want it, which I understand inside out, and which can be maintained and/or re-installed from backup easily.....if the need should arise.

I'm no longer the "geek" I was a decade ago. Life got in the way, and established new priorities. S**t happens.


Mike.

 

[GreenLightning01]

hm... I also wanted to say that distro representation is always going to be an issue in some way or other. And I have to post some place, so this is as good as it gets. So for instance the question of which destros get introduced: the top 24? 124? why not always one more that is left out. What is the measure? Unless you create a new criteria like "hop-friendly" and then a committee that awards this to distros that meet the criteria. Also, I just wanted to add that linux community can take the same approach that drupal and wordpress do with users in terms of seeing them as providers. like the idea that everyone will want to have their own custom distro eventually.

Well, actually, there's a Linux flavor for everyone. Part of the reason so many derivatives exist is because of the purposes of the OS, and another is because of the open-source nature of Linux. I use Kodachi for the almost-total internet anonymity. The open-source code is just that -- OPEN -- so that anyone who knows anything about Linux is able to tweak the OS and even pass it on to others, as long as no one is making a profit off a distribution that started off being FREE.

I started using Ubuntu eight years ago and pretty much ditched Winblows. Ubuntu served its purpose for my needs, but as technology has improved, I have made a conscious decision to leave Ubuntu and latch onto Kodachi, which I have found to have just about all the same applications as Ubuntu but with near-complete internet security.

As another poster has already suggested, distro-hopping is just one way of figuring out which distribution works best for you.

I'm rather surprised that no one has yet mentioned distrowatch.com as a resource. It lists many of the Linux OSes available, though not in related groups as the WikiPedia site does. Wiki groups distros in terms of purpose and then describes the differences between related OSes. Definitely worth a look to help you narrow down your search for the perfect OS.

Hope this helps!!

 

[Anawilliam850]

One reason for this fragmentation is that each distribution is developed and maintained by different groups of people with different priorities, goals, and philosophies. While some distros aim to be user-friendly and easy to use, others prioritize customization and control. Additionally, distros often have different package management systems and configurations, which can make transitioning between them more difficult.

To address this issue, some efforts have been made to standardize certain aspects of Linux, such as the Linux Standard Base, which defines a set of standards for software that runs on Linux systems. However, it's challenging to achieve complete standardization, as there will always be different approaches to developing and maintaining a distribution.

Regarding your idea of installing a core system that can be customized with different distros, some projects like Linux From Scratch or Arch Linux provide a bare-bones system that users can build upon. However, these distributions require more technical knowledge and are not suitable for all users.

In conclusion, while fragmentation in the Linux community can be challenging, it's also a result of the diversity and freedom that the platform offers. It's up to individual users to find the distro that best fits their needs and preferences and to learn how to navigate the different systems.

 

[wizardfromoz]

I particularly like that last paragraph from @GreenLightning01 on distrowatch.com

I use it several times a week, and it also has both a Simple and an Advanced Search feature, so you can narrow down to a manageable list of distros.

I used it not for myself, but to answer a Member's question on non-systemd distros, but you can search on Security, Beginners and so forth.

Wiz