Sorry, it just ain't happening.

dos2unix

dos2unix

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My wife has an old car. It was manufactured in 1970 (which isn't that long ago for some of us). She still drives it from time to time.
We take it to car shows. We've never won any awards, even though we have spent a little money on it. I guess it's culture thing. We have newer cars, both are less than five years old. Nothing fancy, but they work.

I sometimes see people in here trying to resurrect old PCs. I broke out my 2004 AMD Opteron with my blazingly fast ATI Radeon 9800 XT.
I was lucky enough to have SATA interfaces on this PC. I have my whopping 100GB SATA drive. It hasn't been started up... since Abe Lincoln was in office. Seriously I would guess 10 years or more. To my surprise Windows ME fired right up. How I've missed MS BOB and clippy. I couldn't remember my password. No problem I'll install Linux. This is a 64bit CPU after all. I even have two (count em, not just one) two whole USB 2.0 ports. What more could you want?

Now I suppose for some of you, this is a new computer. But for me... well... lets just say I've had a few since then.
Time to install Linux. For the sake of this commentary, the distro doesn't matter. It was a mainstream well supported distro. I couldn't boot from USB, but I do have a external USB/DVD drive. Burn the install iso to a DVD. (Are we having fun yet?) I could not believe how long it took to burn a 2GB iso. About 40 mins.

I was able to boot from the DVD. I then proceeded to install. I'd forgotten how slow early SATA was. I got to the grub boot menu, this PC is Legacy BIOS only, OK no problem. I had to find a DVI video cable. No HDMI or display port here. I was connected to a 2560x1440 monitor. The menu was hard to read, but it was there, so I tried to boot into the kernel. I watched install regisiters scroll by and my screen blacked out. After some fiddling around, it turns out my video card doesn't support that resolution. So I found a 1080p monitor, it even had a DVI connector, talk about luck.

I was able to make it past the grub boot menu and actually get to the installer screen. I eventually got everything to my liking and clicked on install. Talk about slow. I started yesterday. Just kidding, it wasn't quite that bad. On my nvme drive it usually takes less than 5 mins. About 40 mins later. It said finished. So I clicked on reboot. I unplugged the DVD drive. Tah da, it booted up.

Why is everything so big? I make it past the login screen and and check my resolution. Woo-hoo 800x640!! Does it get better than this?
The sound even works. I have no wifi, no problem I have extra Ethernet ports. So I do a system update, and amazingly this distro has some older ATI Radeon video drivers. I was a little surprised when they actually installed. I rebooted, and now I actually have 1080p.

Now this was a somewhat fun and nostalgic trip I suppose. But lets try to do some modern day stuff. Go to Youtube watch some full screen Music videos. It "mostly" works. I won't tell you my GLmark2 scores here. So then lets lets try to play a round of 0ad. Well, again.. it "works". But I suppose works is a relative term. A lot of lag, some tearing, a little shader texture missing on fast action screen sequences. I wouldn't call this a high-end graphics game really.

But here is the bottom line. This may not make some people happy. I was able to use Linux and browse the web OK. But if yu're expecting high end graphics and I/O performance from this vintage of PC. Sorry, it ain't happening. Hardware has a limit. Linux can make up for some things, but not everything. I see people post thngs, like my computer is 20 years old, but it doesn't play games like my windows PC. OK, how old is your windows PC? I bought it last year. Hmmmmm... I wonder why?

If you have old vintage hardware, you're going to get old vintage performance. I'm sorry that's just the way it is. If you want better performance, you can buy a decent PC for less than $200.00 (US). I know not everyone has $200.00 laying around. Linux is good, but it can't do miracles.
 


I also consider the costs involved.

Old PCs are great for a hobby. If they're running old software, keep them offline. Be a good netizen.

However, using them for work/regular activities is going to eventually cost you more electricity than it'd cost to just buy a cheap modern refurbished computer. The efficiency of compute cycles per kW is much greater today than it was at that point. This difference adds up rather quickly.

If you're paying for electricity, as most folks are, then just get something modern. Yes, your old stuff still works but the math doesn't work when it comes to your expenses.

I'm not saying throw your old computer into the trash. I'm saying send your old computer to a reputable place that will recycle it. Don't add to the e-waste problem any more than you absolutely have to.

If you absolutely can't afford to buy a modern refurbished device, then I suppose you're an exception.

It also doesn't have to be all that modern to appreciate the lower operating costs. Even an early i3 or i5 (that era) will be much more efficient. You can often find computers like that for free.

Another exception will be when you absolutely can't use modern hardware because your essential business application doesn't work on it and virtualization isn't an option. Just keep that stuff off the public internet.

There are likely some other exceptions but those are some examples.
 
dos2unix said:
If you want better performance, you can buy a decent PC for less than $200.00 (US). I know not everyone has $200.00 laying around.
Click to expand...
Go to local thrift stores I found this $35.00 thrift store computer running Windows 10 professional.

I find computers all of the time like this one in my local thrift stores.

If you're willing to look they are available so no you don't need $200.00 for a better computer.

Code: 
# inxi -Fxz# inxi -Fxz
System:    Host: EASYPC28829 Kernel: 6.6.75 x86_64 (64 bit) Desktop: JWM 2.4.7 Distro: EasyOS Scarthgap64
Machine:   Device: desktop System: Dell product: OptiPlex 5040
           Mobo: Dell model: 0R790T v: A00 UEFI [Legacy]: Dell v: 1.21.0 date: 12/08/2021
CPU:       Quad core Intel Core i5-6500 (-MCP-) cache: 6144 KB
           flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx) bmips: 25610
           clock speeds: max: 3201 MHz 1: 1000 MHz 2: 1000 MHz 3: 1000 MHz 4: 999 MHz
Graphics:  Card: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD/ATI] Oland XT [Radeon HD 8670 / R5 340X OEM / R7 250/350/350X OEM]
           bus-ID: 01:00.0
           Display Server: X.org 1.21.1.14 drivers: ati,amdgpu (unloaded: modesetting,fbdev,vesa)
           tty size: 124x35 Advanced Data: N/A for root
Audio:     Card-1 Advanced Micro Devices [AMD/ATI] Oland/Hainan/Cape Verde/Pitcairn HDMI Audio [Radeon HD 7000 Series]
           driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 01:00.1
           Card-2 Intel 100 Series/C230 Series Family HD Audio Controller driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:1f.3
           Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v: k6.6.75
Network:   Card: Intel Ethernet Connection (2) I219-V driver: e1000e bus-ID: 00:1f.6
           IF: eth0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter>
Drives:    HDD Total Size: NA (-)
           ID-1: /dev/sda model: TOSHIBA_DT01ACA0 size: 500.1GB
           ID-2: /dev/sdb model: USB_2.0_FD size: 15.5GB
RAID:      No RAID devices: /proc/mdstat, md_mod kernel module present
Sensors:   None detected - is lm-sensors installed and configured?
Info:      Processes: 180 Uptime: 8:23 Memory: 1272.7/15941.6MB Init: SysVinit runlevel: 5 Gcc sys: N/A
           Client: Shell (bash 5.2.211) inxi: 2.3.8
 
Me, I've always loved messing-around with old hardware.....simply to see just what it WAS - and still IS - capable of. But I understand the limitations of old hardware.

The P4 in our old Dell lappie was unburstable. But it was so desperately slow, despite the high clock speed, that it was more fun watching paint dry. I remember back in the XP days, it took more than 5 hours to install the XP SP3 update.....yes, it GOT there (eventually!), but it was red-lining all the way, and running hot enough to fry an egg on!

If you cannot run the latest online security standards, you should keep well away from the web.

@The Duck :-

I agree with ya about cheap hardware. There's tons of it out there; I was lucky enough to pick up my current 2012-era Dell Latitude with a 3rd-gen Core i5 on eBay for around GBP £55, after a bit of haggling. By UK standards, that's cheap.....and it was in beautiful condition and runs perfectly. Obviously been treated fairly gently, methinks.

I've thrown about another £50 at it just to upgrade it a bit; more RAM and a cheap SSD. But that'll be my lot, and if it lasts me another 2-3 years I'll be more than satisfied with it.


Mike. ;)
 
MikeWalsh said:
I agree with ya about cheap hardware. There's tons of it out there; I was lucky enough to pick up my current 2012-era Dell Latitude with a 3rd-gen Core i5 on eBay for around GBP £55, after a bit of haggling. By UK standards, that's cheap.....and it was in beautiful condition and runs perfectly. Obviously been treated fairly gently, methinks.
Click to expand...

Not so much around here. It's been a few months, but a friend and I spent about 3 or 4days going to about a dozen different thrift stores in about a 50 mile radius of my house. No PCs to be had anywhere. So then we tried craigslist. It had a little more, but nothing close to $35.00. Finally we looked at eBay. It was cheaper there, but I'm always leery of buying used hardware off the internet. (well, let me rephrase that, hardware from personal sellers). Maybe I will go on another scouting mission this weekend, but used PCs are hard to come by around here, unless you get lucky at a garage sell.
 
I have to say that thrift store computers are a hit and miss type of thing.

The secret is to get to know them and when they stock the shelves with the new donations.

By doing that small thing you know when to be there to grab the good buys before they are gone.

MikeWalsh said:
@The Duck :-

I agree with ya about cheap hardware. There's tons of it out there; I was lucky enough to pick up my current 2012-era Dell Latitude with a 3rd-gen Core i5 on eBay for around GBP £55, after a bit of haggling. By UK standards, that's cheap.....and it was in beautiful condition and runs perfectly. Obviously been treated fairly gently, methinks.

I've thrown about another £50 at it just to upgrade it a bit; more RAM and a cheap SSD. But that'll be my lot, and if it lasts me another 2-3 years I'll be more than satisfied with it.


Mike. ;)
Click to expand...
I'm the person who will spend 30 minutes or so flipping through Ebay ads to find PC parts for cheap and I mean dirt cheap.

I don't buy items from the first or second page I buy items from the last few pages where stuff is cheap and I mean dirt cheap.

I run computers using USB flash drives running Easy OS or Puppy Linux so I really don't need an internal HDD or an SSD.

I don't need to be "Keeping up with the Joneses" so a thrift store computer works for me and keeps it out of a landfill somewhere.

I know folks who spend a lot of money on their new fangled computers and are very unhappy with the performance of them.

They're amazed at the performance of my older thrift store computers compared to their new fangled computers.

Okay my 25 cents worth.

See ya. ;)
 
I will never understand why people seem to think computers last forever if you install Linux on it.
1740437179249.gif


My 13 year old Laptop is 64 bit...has an i5 CPU and a 500GB SSD...two USB 2 ports and a USB 3 port and works just fine but if the Motherboard fails I'm screwed but that's life. It should last many more years because I only use it about twice a year.
1740437803357.gif


My 12 year old Tower's Motherboard failed about 18 mths ago and I had to buy a new CPU and Ram because the old Motherboard was socket 1150 and the new one was socket 1700 and that horrible UEFI.
1740438210058.gif
 
Here's another thrift store find and it came with a 128 GB SSD.

It was marked $25.00 although it was 50% off day so $12.50 plus tax.

I grab a monitor a keyboard a mouse a monitor cable two power cords and test them out before I buy them.

Bought three of these HP Compaq SFF desktops from my local thrift store.

Okay they ain't the newest newfangled computers but they do what I need to do and that's what matters imo.

Code: 
hp-compaq@hp-compaq:~$ inxi -Fxz
System:
  Kernel: 5.15.0-133-generic x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 11.4.0
    Desktop: Cinnamon 6.0.4 Distro: Linux Mint 21.3 Virginia
    base: Ubuntu 22.04 jammy
Machine:
  Type: Desktop System: Hewlett-Packard product: HP Compaq Pro 6300 SFF
    v: N/A serial: <superuser required>
  Mobo: Hewlett-Packard model: 339A serial: <superuser required>
    BIOS: Hewlett-Packard v: K01 v03.08 date: 04/10/2019
CPU:
  Info: quad core model: Intel Core i5-3470 bits: 64 type: MCP
    arch: Ivy Bridge rev: 9 cache: L1: 256 KiB L2: 1024 KiB L3: 6 MiB
  Speed (MHz): avg: 1623 high: 1632 min/max: 1600/3600 cores: 1: 1626
    2: 1632 3: 1625 4: 1610 bogomips: 25540
  Flags: avx ht lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3
Graphics:
  Device-1: Intel Xeon E3-1200 v2/3rd Gen Core processor Graphics
    vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: i915 v: kernel bus-ID: 00:02.0
  Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.4 driver: X: loaded: modesetting
    unloaded: fbdev,vesa gpu: i915 resolution: 1024x768~75Hz
  OpenGL: renderer: Mesa Intel HD Graphics 2500 (IVB GT1)
    v: 4.2 Mesa 23.2.1-1ubuntu3.1~22.04.3 direct render: Yes
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel 7 Series/C216 Family High Definition Audio
    vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus-ID: 00:1b.0
  Sound Server-1: ALSA v: k5.15.0-133-generic running: yes
  Sound Server-2: PulseAudio v: 15.99.1 running: yes
  Sound Server-3: PipeWire v: 0.3.48 running: yes
Network:
  Device-1: Intel 82579LM Gigabit Network vendor: Hewlett-Packard
    driver: e1000e v: kernel port: f080 bus-ID: 00:19.0
  IF: eno1 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter>
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: 119.24 GiB used: 12.69 GiB (10.6%)
  ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Samsung model: SSD CM871 2.5 7mm 128GB
    size: 119.24 GiB
Partition:
  ID-1: / size: 116.32 GiB used: 12.68 GiB (10.9%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda3
  ID-2: /boot/efi size: 512 MiB used: 6.1 MiB (1.2%) fs: vfat
    dev: /dev/sda2
Swap:
  ID-1: swap-1 type: file size: 2 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) file: /swapfile
Sensors:
  System Temperatures: cpu: 29.8 C mobo: 27.8 C
  Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A
Info:
  Processes: 200 Uptime: 2h 11m Memory: 7.63 GiB used: 988.9 MiB (12.7%)
  Init: systemd runlevel: 5 Compilers: gcc: 11.4.0 Packages: 2175 Shell: Bash
  v: 5.1.16 inxi: 3.3.13
hp-compaq@hp-compaq:~$
 
The Duck said:
Bought three of these HP Compaq SFF desktops from my local thrift store.
Click to expand...

Those are perfectly adequate for normal desktop Linux use.

For whatever reason, INXI doesn't show the RAM in that output. I figure it should, but it doesn't. I'm not sure why it's not included in some of the more thorough outputs. Is it safe to assume that they're 8 to 16 GB of RAM?

I figure 8 GB of RAM is the absolute minimum these days and I'm leaning toward saying it should really be 16 GB or higher. Of course, there are ways to live comfortably within the 8 GB constraints and some folks manage with just 4 GB.
 
KGIII said:
Those are perfectly adequate for normal desktop Linux use.

For whatever reason, INXI doesn't show the RAM in that output. I figure it should, but it doesn't. I'm not sure why it's not included in some of the more thorough outputs. Is it safe to assume that they're 8 to 16 GB of RAM?

I figure 8 GB of RAM is the absolute minimum these days and I'm leaning toward saying it should really be 16 GB or higher. Of course, there are ways to live comfortably within the 8 GB constraints and some folks manage with just 4 GB.
Click to expand...

Go down and look at Info: .

Memory: 7.63 GiB

used: 988.9 MiB (12.7%)
 
Last edited:
the alternative is inxi -Fnmxz and you get


brian@Deep-Thought:~$ inxi -Fnmxz
System:
Kernel: 6.1.0-31-amd64 arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 12.2.0
Desktop: Cinnamon v: 6.4.8 Distro: LMDE 6 Faye base: Debian 12.1 bookworm
Machine:
Type: Laptop System: Dell product: Latitude 5490 v: N/A
serial: <superuser required>
Mobo: Dell model: 08NJ82 v: A00 serial: <superuser required> UEFI: Dell
v: 1.35.0 date: 04/02/2024
Battery:
ID-1: BAT0 charge: 57.2 Wh (95.3%) condition: 60.0/68.0 Wh (88.3%)
volts: 8.3 min: 7.6 model: SMP DELL GD1P653 status: discharging
Memory:
RAM: total: 15.48 GiB used: 2.27 GiB (14.6%)
RAM Report: permissions: Unable to run dmidecode. Root privileges
required.
CPU:
 
The Duck said:
Go down and look at Info: .

Memory: 7.63 GiB

used: 988.9 MiB (12.7%)
Click to expand...

I see it now.

I had somehow missed it - this entire time.
 
The Duck said:
Ebay has dirt cheap deals on DDR3 memory.
Click to expand...

And, for those that use DDR4, there was 32 GB on sale for about $30. I offered them $20 and they took the offer within a few minutes. I did offer to send them 4 x 4 GB of RAM back (as they were the 'PCs for People' group) but they declined my offer saying they were no longer interested in selling 4 GB sticks of RAM.

That's for my cheap refurb test box that turned into a retro gaming box. When I do the switch, I'd offer send the old RAM to anyone in the US that somehow needed them (assuming that I remember.)
 
Brickwizard said:
the alternative is inxi -Fnmxz and you get


brian@Deep-Thought:~$ inxi -Fnmxz
System:
Kernel: 6.1.0-31-amd64 arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 12.2.0
Desktop: Cinnamon v: 6.4.8 Distro: LMDE 6 Faye base: Debian 12.1 bookworm
Machine:
Type: Laptop System: Dell product: Latitude 5490 v: N/A
serial: <superuser required>
Mobo: Dell model: 08NJ82 v: A00 serial: <superuser required> UEFI: Dell
v: 1.35.0 date: 04/02/2024
Battery:
ID-1: BAT0 charge: 57.2 Wh (95.3%) condition: 60.0/68.0 Wh (88.3%)
volts: 8.3 min: 7.6 model: SMP DELL GD1P653 status: discharging
Memory:
RAM: total: 15.48 GiB used: 2.27 GiB (14.6%)
RAM Report: permissions: Unable to run dmidecode. Root privileges
required.
CPU:
Click to expand...
I like that one.

Thanks. :)

Code: 
hp-compaq@hp-compaq:~$  inxi -Fnmxz
System:
  Kernel: 5.15.0-133-generic x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 11.4.0
    Desktop: Cinnamon 6.0.4 Distro: Linux Mint 21.3 Virginia
    base: Ubuntu 22.04 jammy
Machine:
  Type: Desktop System: Hewlett-Packard product: HP Compaq Pro 6300 SFF
    v: N/A serial: <superuser required>
  Mobo: Hewlett-Packard model: 339A serial: <superuser required>
    BIOS: Hewlett-Packard v: K01 v03.08 date: 04/10/2019
Memory:
  RAM: total: 7.63 GiB used: 1.63 GiB (21.3%)
  RAM Report:
    permissions: Unable to run dmidecode. Root privileges required.
CPU:
  Info: quad core model: Intel Core i5-3470 bits: 64 type: MCP
    arch: Ivy Bridge rev: 9 cache: L1: 256 KiB L2: 1024 KiB L3: 6 MiB
  Speed (MHz): avg: 1596 high: 1597 min/max: 1600/3600 cores: 1: 1596
    2: 1596 3: 1596 4: 1597 bogomips: 25541
  Flags: avx ht lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3
Graphics:
  Device-1: Intel Xeon E3-1200 v2/3rd Gen Core processor Graphics
    vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: i915 v: kernel bus-ID: 00:02.0
  Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.4 driver: X: loaded: modesetting
    unloaded: fbdev,vesa gpu: i915 resolution: 1024x768~75Hz
  OpenGL: renderer: Mesa Intel HD Graphics 2500 (IVB GT1)
    v: 4.2 Mesa 23.2.1-1ubuntu3.1~22.04.3 direct render: Yes
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel 7 Series/C216 Family High Definition Audio
    vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus-ID: 00:1b.0
  Sound Server-1: ALSA v: k5.15.0-133-generic running: yes
  Sound Server-2: PulseAudio v: 15.99.1 running: yes
  Sound Server-3: PipeWire v: 0.3.48 running: yes
Network:
  Device-1: Intel 82579LM Gigabit Network vendor: Hewlett-Packard
    driver: e1000e v: kernel port: f080 bus-ID: 00:19.0
  IF: eno1 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter>
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: 119.24 GiB used: 11.87 GiB (10.0%)
  ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Samsung model: SSD CM871 2.5 7mm 128GB
    size: 119.24 GiB
Partition:
  ID-1: / size: 116.32 GiB used: 11.87 GiB (10.2%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda3
  ID-2: /boot/efi size: 512 MiB used: 6.1 MiB (1.2%) fs: vfat
    dev: /dev/sda2
Swap:
  ID-1: swap-1 type: file size: 2 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) file: /swapfile
Sensors:
  System Temperatures: cpu: 29.8 C mobo: 27.8 C
  Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A
Info:
  Processes: 226 Uptime: 2m Init: systemd runlevel: 5 Compilers: gcc: 11.4.0
  Packages: 2175 Shell: Bash v: 5.1.16 inxi: 3.3.13
hp-compaq@hp-compaq:~$
 
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