{Solved}Change Permissions

[Gainer]

Good Afternoon

Working as a Newbie on my translation skills from MS to LM termonology. Today working on understanding a bit regarding Permissions. I did a full linux.org search for "Permissions" - 10 plus pages. Some helped fill in a bit of what I don't know... some I have no clue (why below)

I'm working with LinuxMint 22 installed on a 65GB bootable/persistent Thumb-Drive.

Whatever updates the system said was necessary I allowed. Also, I modified the installed Firefox to my security preferences and appearence. I changed the search engine to StartPage. I saved my Bookmarks as html. Using Text Editor to record a log of what I am doing as I go along.

All this file creation was used to familiarize myself about default creation and data file storage. Also, as I know I am going to follow my habit of the OS (LM22 LTS) and any must be installed programs/utilities I choose, to be the only content on the SSD.

An External drive will be provided for data only. Currently it is a 32GB Pen-Drive.

Much of the rest of my "playing" was to explore some of the default installed Utilities, organizing files and changing appearence of desktop/favorites/menu.

All of the above Saved many times, and rebooted many times with my work/changes in place. Persistence lesson well learned. I have not had any unexpect errors/messages. Have not run into Permissions and Permissions have not run into me.

Will you PLEASE get to the point? OK, I'll try...

To be clear, I am not trying to change any Permissions at least in the near future (I think that means a few weeks). I have not run into any issues (that I know of, like error messages, etc).

In Microsoft you will recall there is an Administrator, Administrators, and various Users of various types, names, and some hidden ones.

In LinuxMint, correct me if I'm wrong... Root is the same a Administrator.

In my past Mictosoft world, my work systems and laptops carry Full Administrator Rights to anything and everything possible. Also, as one of the Administrators (Group), Full Rights to everything / no restriction. Very seldom did I use or even have a Users account.

Looking at this from the Security point of view... this environment could be a bit on the sketchy side. From a different point of view, when I am on-site my console is restricted to me only by contract and NDA. Everyone understood.

The last third of my worklife, typically it did not make any difference as I was the only one on site. My contracts and NDA's extended to my office and home. (Side Note: at signing time I didn't "see" the full scope nor did the attorney, but technicallly speaking, friends or family - well anyone - are not even allowed in my home office.

I use a 116bit password.

I think I needed to say all of the above to kind of outline my environment and work habits.

Yes, I followed you-guys' instruction as to the first thing to do after first boot - Turn the darn FIREWALL ON! I get it! DONE! Step #1
With all that said, am I OK with the default Firewall ON, and LM22 Default Permissions? Where will I run into their restrictions, trigger points in general. (I'll be back if I run into trouble)

To get into a usable production environment I'm pretty close. Internet, email, 2programs in Bottles. The one truly "Microsoft program" will be the challenge. I've had another long session with the developers and no Linux version is planned. Their new development direction is Cloud-Based database. It's an excellent move for them. I'm part of the pre-launch testing and it is beautifully done.

Sooooo time will tell. Of course it could be that getting completely away from Microsoft/Windows/Edge, I might/maybe/could be "pursuaded" to Cloud using something like LibreWolf Or a non-snoopy browser/search engine. Got any hints/suggestions or leave it for another day.

If you can point me toward easy to understand what to do to get full root.

OR tell me NOT to do "as much root as possible" in Linux and a why?

The one that sneeks by the NDA's and all security efforts is my dog. Teaching him Linux is a real bark. He is going to be a great hacker.

Yeah, NOT, his whole focus is, how do you say "Treats" in Linux.

He is pissed because I refuse to talk to him in "Microsoft" -

Throw the Ball, Throw the Ball, Throw the Ball

The one that does not need any translation at all is because it's in Braille, so in any language. The "sign" is, Wag the Tail and bite the boss in the foot - "Let's go for a walk, Now!" I got it!

(4:24 pm MST-USA)

Reason for the Permission question now, is I feel I am ready to make some Rescuezilla clones of my Bootable/Persistant stick and Press the Install LinuxMint button. Where I am I feel confident (THANK YOU GUYS) to move forward and that I can recover the messes I make. All of your guidence - I think it was @Condobloke that said to take a hard look at DualBoot (Windows/Linux) or go for a Clean install of LinuxMint 22 LTS. Waiting for a piece or two of equipment coming next week and then I'm going to "push the install button" to make a LinuxMint 22.xx.x LTS Cinammon machine

I am certainly depending on your feedback, Please and thank you

OOOps got windy... break it up any way you like, ask questions or...

 

[Condobloke]

Reason for the Permission question now,

You mention then that

"push the install button" to make a LinuxMint 22.xx.x LTS Cinammon machine

There is no situation etc in accomplishing that 'push the button etc etc' that will necessitate an in depth knowledge of permissions. In fact I cannot think of a single situation during an install etc etc.. that even goes close to altering or messing around with permissions.

You mentioned, further up the page, somewhere, that clones from R'zilla would/could come into play. The only 'drama' i have ever encountered in that particular sphere, is when the 'finished' article refused to boot. That was not a big deal....botted into the usb stick selected 'boot repair' in the menu...ran it and that was the end of that, forevermore.

Have not run into Permissions and Permissions have not run into me.

Usage of the word 'default' is inclined to give the impression that there are circumstances where the permissions very much need to be altered. Not true. The circumstances where a permission needs altering, are few and far between. Someone else may have some input here, but the only case I run into is where a right click/properties/permissions/"Allow executing file as program"......

Just press the button with all faith that Linux will do its job

....and for whatever reason it doesn't, it can be sorted, without undue sweating/stress/drama

You have a magnificent 'think tank' at your back.

 

[Condobloke]

A late thought....the strangest things occur to me that weirdest of times

I found it an advantage (you may not) to 'Create a new Folder' in the place where I store CZ backups. This not a necessity, because CZ does it for you anyway. it simply satisfies some organisational 'trigger' of mine

Open the place that stores the backups etc....right click and select'create a new folder' you will lile find that the creat etc is greyed out and does not respond to being clicked.

Right click on an empty space....and select 'Open as Root'

(yes, there is that word)

It simply means that permission is necessary, Privileges are required, Authentication is required...... to do this.

To put in terrifyingly simplistic terms....it is made this way so that even the 'treat seeker' cannot bypass the "system' and effect changes to your pc that you are not desiring !!!...it is the simplicity of Linux that just blows all other OS's out of the water in terms of security.

The password?...is your login password that you use often.
Just as an aside.....my chosen password for this and every other situation....was made up on the spot approx 10 years ago.....and because I was aware (via input from my son) that the password would be used over and over and over , again......I made it in such a way that the keys used were close to each other, could be entered at speed, and were repeated a few times, and yet were sufficiently secure to satisfy me. (not an easy task) It endures til this day. It is not as if I am surrounded by scoundrels wanting to know the innermost secrets of my LM22. If they really want to know, they have simply to ask. Any 'out of house' person attending are politely asked to 'look away' (The chances of anyone showing sufficient interest are hugely unlikely, but...)

Will you PLEASE get to the point? OK, I'll try...

ok, ok...open as root...click enter....asks for password

Righto...password entered. Enter

This will open the same window....but....with a red line across the top, entitled Elevated Privileges pic below::

oops....wrong pic !
It can stay....for your further edification, that is Bam-i ....otherwise known as pan cit (pronounced pancit) (unrelated to Linux, but a totally necessary part of its ongoing enjoyment/deployment

You are now root. "Unlocking full control over your system with the highest privileges"

Right click, create a new folder, name it, (or rename...right click and rename)....that is.

Then, when you run RZ, you will be looking for the folder you just named and that will become the destination for your RZ backup , clone etc

Mine is already created and named in above pic, ready for Novembers backup

It will dawn on you (if it hasn't already) that Linux almost appears to have a sixth sense. It 'covers your bum' at the most critical times. Very, very clever.

Onward. Get it installed when the bits arrive.

k.i.s.s.

 

[Condobloke]

Root:

Demystifying the Powerful Root Terminal in Linux Mint – TheLinuxCode

As a fellow Linux Mint user and expert, I want to let you in on a powerful tool – the root terminal. Unlocking full control over your system with the highest privileges can be intimidating for beginners. But by understanding the proper techniques to access the root account and terminal, you can...

thelinuxcode.com

open terminal....

sudo apt autoremove

There you go...simple, effective.
You just did a clean job. At root level. No drama, no fuss.

But....do not abuse it or treat it lightly
While the highest authority has advantages, it also incurs high risk. Simple typos as root can wreck havoc – so caution is warranted.

And that is yet another sound reason why Timeshift snapshots can be absolutely invaluable. Scenario;....you enter a terminal and absolutely screw soemthing uip using 'sudo' (which is a prompt for your password/root.....and the after effect/shock is devastating. everything is not as it should be

Open timeshift 9either right there if you are able, or on the usb stick if not)
Click on restore....click on ok and continue etc etc....and sit back with coffee (or whisky) and watch the magic.
Marvel at the fact that when T'shift has finished, it pops up an update for whatever it has wiped to one side when going back.....a timely reminder that T';shift is FAR superior to system restore.

 

[Condobloke]

One other 'occasion'.....you may come across a app/file/folder etc that may present you with a 'cannot open for what the hell reason....click on details, if that is present, and look for 'permission denied'
Close that, right click on the offending item, select 'open as root'.....blah blah
That should do it.

If something should go sideways/south.....Timeshift

 

[Brickwizard]

If you can point me toward easy to understand what to do to get full root.

OR tell me NOT to do "as much root as possible" in Linux and a why?

The Root account [administrator] is used if you are making changes that will affect the operation of the core system, from the desktop to initiate root privileges as a superuser we start out terminal commands with sudo [super user do] be careful how you use it

 

[Gainer]

A late thought....the strangest things occur to me that weirdest of times

First - Thank You for the four threads. Just the right amount and easy to understand. Cleared up a bunch of blank spots. I'm copying a bunch for my notes and logs.

Demystifying the Powerful Root Terminal in Linux Mint – TheLinuxCode​

As a fellow Linux Mint user and expert, I want to let you in on a powerful tool – the root terminal.

It's Mid-Night here and I got through about half of the above "Demystifing the Powerful Root...". Yup dozed off - not because it was dull. It is very informative well written easy to ready... but grumpy old guys pick up wierd sleeping habits or it just might be wierd awake habits - been about 30 hours up-time. Out of black coffee and just finished the last of my daily quota of whiskey - I'm probably the only guy that can strech a single shot to a 24 hour sip. Got to go to bed before I damage my forehead or keyboard

OMG 2 more things. I've tried my Timeshift a couple of times over the past weeks in preparation of "going-live" and all I get is "Live USB Mode (Restore Only)" Looked it up and some of the answers seem to have to do with folks that have been using Timeshift successfuly but after an update they got this message. After a reboot many got the service back but lost all of their backups. Many answers were beyound my understanding,,yet. I keep putting off further research for the next "more important" think to read and practice. But I'd better get the Timeshift down pat.

that is Bam-i ....otherwise known as pan cit

A favorite with my variations. I cannot eat shell fish or use shrimp sause. I get close with fish sauce. I do not care for pork. I substitute thin sliced beef and dark turkey sausage. Second favorite... beef adobo. Could be number 1

Made it through almost all of the pandemic but toward the closing months I needed some denistry work and could not get in without the double shot. First shot...OK. Later the required booster. Violently before I got home. In bed for three days and when I got up... lost ability to taste, ability to smell and 30-40% hearing. I love to cook and do pretty well cooking from memory and memory tasting/eating, but cannot try new recipes because I've never tasted them.

Just one more excuse to wear the Grumpy Old Man tee-shirt. Other thing on my list - hair growing (fast) where it shouldn't and disapearing from where it used to be.

Does Linux have a cure for this?

Thank you again

 

[Condobloke]

ve tried my Timeshift a couple of times over the past weeks in preparation of "going-live" and all I get is "Live USB Mode (Restore Only)" Looked it up and some of the answers seem to have to do with folks that have been using Timeshift successfuly but after an update they got this message. After a reboot many got the service back but lost all of their backups. Many answers were beyound my understanding,,yet. I keep putting off further research for the next "more important" think to read and practice. But I'd better get the Timeshift down pat.

If you are running the LM22 on persistent pendrive, then it makes sense that you encounter live usb mode restore only......because if I use a usb stick to access timeshift to restore on my pc mounted OS....I will get the same thing.
The fact that you get restore only when looking at it from a pen drive is cool....because that is what you want at that stage .....to Restore your OS back a day or week or whatever/

@wizardfromoz can likely explain this better than I have

To my knowledge, it has Zero to do with any update. and getting the service back but lost all their backups just screams bs or seriously loused up install...of both the OS and Timeshift......a total misunderstanding of what they are doing would be close.

Just one more excuse to wear the Grumpy Old Man tee-shirt. Other thing on my list - hair growing (fast) where it shouldn't and disapearing from where it used to be.

Does Linux have a cure for that?....I'm working on it. (not)
I am probably older than you...if Linux comes up with a cure, I get first dibs

That recipe is made with beef, definitely no shrimp sauce or shell fish....not in that particular one. My wife is from The Philippines. Cooking an extensive range of dishes quickly comes as second nature to her......my second nature is to devour them just as quickly.

 

[MikeRocor]

Just one more excuse to wear the Grumpy Old Man tee-shirt. Other thing on my list - hair growing (fast) where it shouldn't and disapearing from where it used to be.

Does Linux have a cure for this?

Use symbolic links to place your ears, nostrils and eyebrows to the top of your head. Looks kind of odd to some folks, but plenty of hair.

 

[Gainer]

To my knowledge, it has Zero to do with any update. and getting the service back but lost all their backups just screams bs or

I read so many different "answers" (on "respected" forums and blogs)... and that was one answer that seemed possible. Thank you for proving, with a valid test, that it was incorrect (nice word for BS ) I now have a solid starting point after I get LN installed. I'm starting to out grow this Stick. Wonderful for testing and reviewing but getting close to going live.

 

[Gainer]

Use symbolic links to place your ears, nostrils and eyebrows to the top of your head. Looks kind of odd to some folks, but plenty of hair.

Or a hoodie and face mask... anywhich way I'm starting to scare little kids in the grocery store and that guy in the mirror... who the heck is that? OMG!

 

[Gainer]

@wizardfromoz can likely explain this better than I have

You seem to be doing quite well... scary thing is I'm starting to understand what you are saying

 

[Condobloke]

I'm starting to out grow this Stick. Wonderful for testing and reviewing but getting close to going live.

That can only be a good thing.

 

[Gainer]

Since I cannot do Timeshift from a Persistent PenDrive, and it is/was my next step on the bootable stick, here is my current plan so I can move forward toward my Goal.

I have the Mini PC with current Ubuntu.

I used Rufus to create a Rescuezilla PenDrive. Created a couple of Ubuntu backups so I can get back all the way to the begining- if necessary.

Next, used Rufus to make Bootable LM22 PenDrive. Many... as I practiced making mistakes - by the dozens. The current version is the Bootable/Persistent PenDrive. I have been pretty happy with it. I havent needed to start my Windows machine now for over a week.

The Pen Drive is persistent, many reboots prove that. It is a 65GB PenDrive, OS only / no data.

I think it will be a good install point with my currrent settings and if necessary a familiar "do-over-cause-I-made-a-mess" point.

My data files are on a third PenDrive - copy to the NAS. All tidy and sorted. Ubuntu images are on the NAS also.

Shutting down, removing the LM boot stick and the data stick.

Boot with the Rescuezilla stick. Then insert the persistant LM stick. Make a couple of backups, verify them and get them on the NAS also. I'm not so inclined to do a Dual-Boot.

I think I'm fully backed up and ready to Install. Do you see any holes in the plan?

A question that I should ask would be, when I click the Install icon does all my system work to date get installed or do I just get the original ISO version and I will need to redo my work?

Black coffee only. This is a No Whiskey project.

 

[Condobloke]

The current version is the Bootable/Persistent PenDrive

Ok.....so you will use that pen drive to do the install. That is new territory for me, i have never done that before.....my installs have always been from a bootable usb with original .iso
Whether or not the changes to the original .iso you have made on that persistent stick will transfer across?....I imagine they will....but am seriously unsure. You are about to find out.

Stay calm....this is not a biggie....either it will work or it will crap itself and we will both learn something.

No harm done. If it fails just grab a stick with original .iso, boot to it and double click the Install icon

The beauty of doing an install on Linux is that there is no need to wipe and format the drive before reinstalling etc....The installer will take care of all that for you.....even if you reinstall a couple of times, whatever is on the drive will be wiped , formatted etc.....and you won't feel a thing. It will just happen

Sorry I can't be more positive about the use of the persistent stick. It is withing the realms of the possible that the installer may recognise it as being something different, and throw its hands in the air and so no thanks !....I dunno !

i am out of here for an hour +

Have fun.

 

[MikeWalsh]

@Gainer :-

TBH, mainstream Linux is something of a "nanny state" where the average single home user is concerned. Every time you want to do anything at all, you must needs ask your system's "permission" to be allowed to do so. It gets old.....fast.

This is not a bad thing, actually. It has its roots way back in the Unix of the 60s/70s, where the majority of systems were mainframes installed on university/college campuses, and where a lot of individual users were sharing the same "system" via dumb terminals. Obviously, it made perfect sense to "compartmentalise" users from those who maintained the core OS itself, since it takes but a single individual to wreak havoc & mess things up good & proper for everyone.

The same model has been in use in Linux since the beginning, I believe. It does make sense for new users, since they soon get used to what common sense dictates should be left well alone. Where it gets to be a PITA is for users with a fair bit of experience under their belts, since it gets very, very trying to have to keep entering your password to get the slightest thing done.

We get castigated in Puppyland for "running as root". I'll tell you this much, though; we're far more productive like this, because we get things done faster.....and more to the point, after the inevitable first few "borked" installs, you very quickly learn what you can and can't do, along with developing a THOROUGH understanding of your system. The big advantage here is that a re-install of Puppy really only involves deletion of the 'save-file/folder' (this is where all user alterations of any kind to the system get saved at shutdown), since it returns the system to as-new, squeaky-clean condition.....due to the read-only nature of the compressed system files.

At the next boot, anything in the 'save' gets combined into the main OS itself via the aufs 'layering' file-system. To the average user, a 'frugal' Puppy install looks & behaves exactly like a conventional 'full' install to a dedicated partition.....with one major exception. And that is the speed & ease of recovery/'re-install'.

Many Puppies can be run from the same, single partition. All each requires is its own dedicated directory ('folder'), since Puppy's custom, 'in-house' bootloader is written to search TWO layers deep to find a bootable kernel.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​

Have a read of the following:-

Fear Not Root

Back in the day, we all had root. When you used a DOS or Apple machine, there was just one user – YOU. You learned to be careful. As multi-user systems like Linux arrived on the desktop, this…

igurublog.wordpress.com

It's several years old.....but it's as relevant today as it ever was. It might shed some light on why Linux does things the way it does.....


Mike.

 

[Gainer]

the same model has been in use in Linux since the beginning, I believe. It does make sense for new users, since they soon get used to what common sense dictates should be left well alone.

I'm just begining to get the jest of this. I lived and worked in the root world for decades. Isolated it was hard to see the over all - but you are right, faster getting something done - with greater responsibilities.

The "Fear Not Root" article was very interesting as the discussion was encompassing the similarities of various OS's root/administrator/user rather than the detailed differences. For me it was a good read! Thank you.

 

[Gainer]

Ok.....so you will use that pen drive to do the install. That is new territory for me, i have never done that before.....my installs have always been from a bootable usb with original .iso

Sorry I was not real clear - maybe using "Pen-Drive" instead when I should have stayed with Bootable/Persistent USB. I used Rufus and the downloaded LinuxMint ISO to create the stick. When booted, the "Install Linux Mint" icon is in the top/left corner of the screen. I'm pretty confident we're talking the same.

I may have been under a misguided assumption that:
USB Thumb Drive
Thumb Drive
Flash Drive
Thumb Pen Drive
Pen Drive
Pendrive
USB Pen Drive
USB Stick
Stick
Memory Stick
etc.
... were all convesationally referring to the same item and it is/was a matter of personal preference which to use in dialog. How could anything get off-track and unsorted? It certainly is a mish/mash with "Big" marketers like Walmart, Amazon, Temu, Best Buy, Alibaba, etc.

And I quote Walmart:

"Aiibe Flash drive 3 pack 128GB USB 3.0 Thumb Drive Memory Stick Pendrive Digital storage for Laptop PC Backup".

All the "marketers" will say just about anything, name any thing what ever way they want, to get the Search Hit - correct or not. Of course there is the manufactures naming their product "uniquely" for the same reason.

Oh, lets add some AI searching. That should help.

 

[Condobloke]

lol....
Yes, we are talking the same. (don't add any AI....you'll confuse the poor deluded thing)

 

[wizardfromoz]

@wizardfromoz can likely explain this better than I have

Nope, that's fine.