Re: Do not use Ubuntu !!!

Will you recommend Ubuntu for someone who has not used Linux before?

  • No

  • Yes


Results are only viewable after voting.
K

KDEandGnomeFan

Guest
A post titled "Do not use Ubuntu !!!" on the Linux org forums has attracted much attention. I would like to add the following reasons why I don't install or recommend Ubuntu.


  1. Canonical has recently went into a partnership with Microsoft to run Ubuntu apps on the Windows 10 operating system, this is not the way a Linux distro should be.
  2. Ubuntu should NEVER have existed in the first place, it has ruined lots of great distros. It has made Debian, and especially Slackware lose popularity. Another distro to consider in Mandrake or Mandriva, it went bankrupt in 2012, I think Canonical was behind this event.
  3. Thus, if Mandriva still existed and was quite popular these days, I would recommend it over Ubuntu, Mint or anything else, as it was extremely successful since its inception, Mageia does not enjoy a high degree of popularity, I've not really tried it, but its still a great distro.
  4. Commenting on euantorano's comments. First of all, Ubuntu is no longer beginner friendly these days, as the Unity desktop environment is confusing to both ex-Windows users and users that have used another Linux desktop before. Mint, Linux Lite, Mageia, Ubuntu Mate etc. are all better choices. Also the comment that "Ubuntu has helped Linux become more mainstream". I disagree, Linux desktops were never mainstream and still aren't and never will. If you count Google's Android and Chrome OS as Linux, you can argue they have made it become more mainstream. Regards to the last comment, I do not believe in using paid software on Linux, I have nothing against proprietary codecs or drivers, but Linux is not a paradise for companies to exploit
  5. There are too many bugs in the newer releases of Ubuntu, even on 16.04 LTS. I have used it a while, and there were many bugs in Unity and the new Ubuntu Software,I keep getting problem report even when I'm just listening to music or browsing the web. I am back to Debian now.
  6. While I personally hate the term GNU/Linux (that's a separate matter), Canonical hates the term "Linux" these days, and now they brand Ubuntu as "The leading OS for PC, tablet, phone and cloud", rather than "Linux for human beings" like they did years ago. They really want to move away from Linux and start their own world domination.
  7. I don't mind anything based on Ubuntu, provided it is different enough, e.g. Mint, it is very different from Ubuntu itself, and is more attractive.
 


OP
B

Bethlehem

Guest
Yes. Sure. Of course I would.
I've inherited a few clients with Ubooboo servers, and once setup a Hylafax+Avantfax server.... and that's pretty much the extent of my use of it. Meaning: I've never used the desktop version.
But still, all of your points, though they may be dear to you, are sort of irrelevant.
Anecdotal case in point, let's say I want to start my youngest son on line in a few years (he just turned 5). My oldest son already uses Slackware so I can't use him.

Point 1: Neither my boy nor me care who Canonical partners with. Business is business. And so what if they want to run Ubunto apps on Windows 10. Windows has been running open source software since its inception in one form or another... from the BSD TCP/IP to Firefox... and way too many more for me to attempt to list.

Point 2: The same can be said for many things. But the fact is, it exists, and has for well over a decade. Which is longer than (I dare say) a good chunk of the forum members here have been using Linux. And you can't blame its existence for 2 of The Big Three losing popularity. Mandrake, which popped out of RedHat (so not a Big 3) had problems of its own and was on a downward slope for a while.

Point 3: There are plenty of great distros. And most (if not all people) do not use the one they originally started out on. So even if Ubuntu does try to suck my son's soul into Tartarus, he can switch at any time. But at least he will, by that time, have an idea of what he wants to switch to, and why.

Point 4: I believe the term was "more mainstream", which just means that the name is out there to a greater extent than before. Ubuntu, to a lot of people outside the "geek" population, is synonymous with Linux. Like "Xerox" is with photo copying. So I believe it was, in fact, done exactly that - made Linux "more mainstream". Will the Linux we know today ever be the marquee operating system that Windows and Mac-OSX are? No, I agree with you there. The Linux community works against itself too much for that to happen. However, please don't turn a blind eye with your "paid software" comment. Linus Torvalds himself is paid to work on the linux kernel, as well as a multitude of other OSS developers and their respective projects. If you were referring to "paid for programs" that run in/on Linux, oh they exist.

Point 5: Find me an actively developed program or piece of software that has a clean bug tracker. I'll hire those developers on my next project! But seriously, if your problem was with Unity and Ubooboo software, to the point that going back to Debian alleviated your pains, then could you have not just as easily switched your Window Manager or Desktop Enviroment? After all, is *that* really whatt he issues were with?

Point 6: You should have seen what the GRUB guys had to say about the same thing years ago. They wanted to just drop GNU and Linux and everything and call the OS "GRUB". Talk about cocky! :)

Point 7: Beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder my friend.

And speaking of beer..... I'm calling it quits on the internet for the evening, I got some drinking to do.

EDIT:
After posting this, and a few beers later, it occurred to me that I was coming off as a prick, I assure you that was not the case. I was just replying to each of your points.
With respect.
 
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OP
K

KDEandGnomeFan

Guest
Yes, I started with Ubuntu, and only recently discovered how stupid I was, I should've used Mandriva whilst it still existed, I don't know how much of my time I wasted using it. If you want your son to use Linux, why not let him try something like Trisquel Sugar or UberStudent? (I heard Edubuntu has been discontinued). Your older boy is smarter than I am as I don't give a f*** about trying Slackware (I have tried Salix), I know that A-bun-2 (however you want to spell it now) has been synonymous with Linux, but I don't see that as a positive thing. People may just download Ubuntu and are unaware there are a lot of other distros, suited to every need, and if they find it doesn't suit them, they may not distro-hop and switch back to Windoze, thinking that Ubuntu and Linux are one and the same. Get it?. I have tried other DE's on Abun2 and it still annoys me with problem reports even when I am not doing anything to suggest that. I am pleased I am now back to Debian And when I say U****u Software, I mean the new package manager has been driving me nuts. Debian does not have any major bugs for the time that I've been using it. I thought the "Big 3" were M, D and U. According to distrowatch anyway. I know that there are paid programs which run on Linux, but I have never used any. Proprietary drivers are no issue for me, however. If you have not used the desktop version before, you are more awesome than I am.

Yes. Sure. Of course I would.
............
 
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B

Bethlehem

Guest
Your older boy is smarter than I am as I don't give a f*** about trying Slackware
He did it to spite me. I originally set him up with Debian/XFCE4, told him once he learned the ins and outs we'd try to gradually figure out what was best for him. He wanted to use FreeBSD on his laptop (because I do) and I told him "you couldn't even figure out Slack if you tried, let alone FreeBSD"..... so the next weekend he installed Slack and his been using it for the last several years... and keeps rubbing it in how he did it "without you dad!".

I know that A-bun-2 (however you want to spell it now) has been synonymous with Linux, but I don't see that as a positive thing. People may just download Ubuntu and are unaware there are a lot of other distros, suited to every need, and if they find it doesn't suit them, they may not distro-hop and switch back to Windoze, thinking that Ubuntu and Linux are one and the same. Get it?.
Yes, I get it. I see your point. I can even empathize with you.I was once young and idealistic.
But I'm old now, too tired to "really" care about what other people do or think. So long as someone is not hurting other people, I don't care if they want to worship lasagna, marry a rug, or piss in the woods. Makes no never-mind to me.

I have tried other DE's on Abun2 and it still annoys me with problem reports even when I am not doing anything to suggest that. I am pleased I am now back to Debian And when I say U****u Software, I mean the new package manager has been driving me nuts.
I suppose you have me at a loss there since I'm not familiar with Oobooboo's problem reports or new package manager. I'll have to look these things up to see where you are coming from.

Debian does not have any major bugs for the time that I've been using it.
Well.... aside from systemd anyways ;)

I thought the "Big 3" were M, D and U. According to distrowatch anyway.
I apologize. In the context, I was referring to "The Big 3 Originals" -the ones that a vast majority of distros are based on: Slackware, Debian, Redhat

I know that there are paid programs which run on Linux, but I have never used any. Proprietary drivers are no issue for me, however.
Fair enough.
I have clients who have tens of thousands of dollars in paid-for and proprietary LOB applications on Linux (and UNIX). Perhaps if you were in their shoes...

If you have not used the desktop version before, you are more awesome than I am.
Or just too stubborn. I started with Fvwm in the late 90s and nothing has come along since that has provided me with *that feature* to make me change. I have the same .fvwm2rc on my FreeBSD laptop as I have on my non-distro Linux desktop.
 
OP
A

atanere

Guest
Saying "Don't use Ubuntu!" is kind of like saying "Don't drive a Ford!"

Now, I don't like Fords, so I think no one should ever buy or rent one. They are the most awful automobile ever placed on the roads. Their drivers won't move out of the fast lane when I want to pass. They give their trucks a stupid name, like F-150, instead of something cool, like Silverado, or Ram. All Fords should just shrivel up and die.

Oh me, sometimes I just crack myself up. Sorry.

Of course, some people love Fords (and Ubuntu). Our differences and diversity is what helps make the world go 'round. It also drives competition and helps make improvements in all kinds of products and services, including competing Linux distributions.

I like to have choices, and I like to test drive all of them. Then I can choose what suits me and my tastes at that moment... and I can also change my mind later and choose something else. Freedom... it's fun!

Cheers!
 
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R

ryanvade

Guest
I have to agree with @atanere . A thriving community needs choice, and choice brings with it strong opinions.

I can't say that I like the partnership between Canonical and Microsoft; bringing Linux development tools to Windows 10 only takes potential Linux users and puts them back on Windows Machines. BUT, that doesn't mean I don't like Ubuntu. Most of Ubuntu is created by the community anyway. And Ubuntu is probably the most stable CONSUMER oriented distribution available.
 
OP
K

KDEandGnomeFan

Guest
Ubuntu is the most stable consumer oriented distro, maybe. But the best EVERYDAY DESKTOP distro would be Mint in my opinion, as Ubuntu is aimed not just for desktop. Most of Ubuntu is created by the community, maybe. But the packages are packaged by who, not the Ubuntu community, for the most part, but the DEBIAN community for most of the packages, Ubuntu devs are only pretty much responsible for importing the packages from Debian, so its the Debian devs you need to thank.
 
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B

bonewits

Guest
I've used everything from PCM, DOS 1.0, thru the win iterations. I've tried PuppyLinux & Slax. Somehow ended up with Ubuntu. I thot that it would be an easy transition. NOT! If it wasn't for the fact that I had years of Dev & QA experience... However, I do think Ubuntu might be a good "First OS." If you know nothing, expect nothing, ya know?

Recently tried Ubuntu 16.04 LTS. Went back to 14.04 :) The more time I spend with Ubuntu the more like M$ it seems to become. Sorry, I get tired of bugs that continue thru iterations...

Next time Ubuntu crashes and it will; I'll be moving to Debian, I think. Just gotta remember to keep my data backups current :)

Chao
 
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B

bonewits

Guest
Ubuntu is the most stable consumer oriented distro, maybe. But the best EVERYDAY DESKTOP distro would be Mint in my opinion, as Ubuntu is aimed not just for desktop. Most of Ubuntu is created by the community, maybe. But the packages are packaged by who, not the Ubuntu community, for the most part, but the DEBIAN community for most of the packages, Ubuntu devs are only pretty much responsible for importing the packages from Debian, so its the Debian devs you need to thank.

ya, the more I use Ubuntu the more I'm installing .debs :)
 
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