Random thoughts on Linux and open source movement

[Mitt Green]

Hi,

I decided to create this post because there are too many things to talk about, related to Linux and FOSS movement.

Culture

Being a Debian user, the worst thing I don't like and sometimes even hate is its community. I met too many rude and impolite people and many of them hide their ignorance with it. When someone describes his problem too short, they are like ''okay, great''. They write answers like ''I don't know, is that problem because of you?'' Yes, there are some users, often new to Linux, they like to learn their system and Unix apps (Debian is an easy tool to do it). I found the difference between Debian and Ubuntu communities just by opening two IRC channels or two forums and comparing. Of course, not everyone in Deb is rude and ignorant, but the percentage of such mates is much higher than in, let's say, Arch forums which I read often.
Debian community with such guys is a very small detail. You probably watched DebConf Q&A with 2014. If not, I recommend you to, it's interesting, here's it:

In this session among with technical questions, there was one

How do you think it affects the culture of the community when the leader of the project in a public mailing list states that
"I'd also suggest that whoever was the genius who thought it was a good idea to read things ONE F*CKING BYTE AT A TIME with system calls for each byte should be retroactively aborted. Who the f*ck does idiotic things like that? How did they noty die as babies, considering that they were likely too stupid to find a tit to suck on?"

Linus said that he doesn't care, he cares about the technology and "there are projects that are no more about the technology and about political correctness". For me, it's a bit sad because if one started a discussion, he should use actual arguments instead of curse language and insults. Here's the link from kernel mailing list:

https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/7/6/495

So, systemd and Lennart Poettering are about both culture and technology.

Linux was created as a clone of Unix and it succeeded. Then appeared a bunch of people who started changing native Unix components, but if Wayland and Mir don't have such ambitions then Lennart and The Team have. They included it in GNOME (but since GNOME 3 is more about visual appealing, this doesn't bother technical people beacuse, how it was said, "[they] switched to Cinnamon, Xfce, Mate...") and now almost each distribution adopted it except for Slackware, Gentoo, Funtoo and BSD and other Unix (Solaris, OpenIndiana). Under the pressure of systemd criticism, Lennart said that

open source community is full of a******s

Thus it ruins some of Unix philosophy. Some will say "GNU is Not Unix!", yes, it its clone.

Kernel

"Linux for losers?"

http://www.forbes.com/2005/06/16/linux-bsd-unix-cz_dl_0616theo.html

Theo De Raadt thoughts on Linux and I agree with him and also his personality is more appealing for me.

Linux kernel is heavier and bulkier unlike BSD and OpenBSD in particular, and GNU sometimes don't cover your needs in one utility. For example, if you need to connect to a network there is the only command in BSD while in GNU there are many for different kinds of connection.

Actually, I respect everyone contributed, contribute and is thinking to contribute to the Community. If you are such person, you probably make a difference. And of course I respect the work that GNU/Linux project did.

Now I want to know your opinions on this. Don't hesitate and write what you think.

Cheers, mates

 

[blackneos940]

Granted, there can be some jerks in the community..... And Linus himself sometimes forgets that the Kernel has evolved beyond just his OWN sphere..... Give credit where credit is due, but, if someone is being rude, well, that's what I'm here for..... To counteract the cockiness.....

 

[blackneos940]

Also, I should point out that, unless I'm mistaken, GNU/Linux is NOT a clone, since a clone is an exact duplicate..... Rather, it's UNIX-LIKE, but the source-code cannot legally be identical, since UNIX is, for now at least, Proprietary.....

 

[Jim Laughlan]

Hi,

I decided to create this post because there are too many things to talk about, related to Linux and FOSS movement.

Culture

Being a Debian user, the worst thing I don't like and sometimes even hate is its community. I met too many rude and impolite people and many of them hide their ignorance with it. When someone describes his problem too short, they are like ''okay, great''. They write answers like ''I don't know, is that problem because of you?'' Yes, there are some users, often new to Linux, they like to learn their system and Unix apps (Debian is an easy tool to do it). I found the difference between Debian and Ubuntu communities just by opening two IRC channels or two forums and comparing. Of course, not everyone in Deb is rude and ignorant, but the percentage of such mates is much higher than in, let's say, Arch forums which I read often.
Debian community with such guys is a very small detail. You probably watched DebConf Q&A with 2014. If not, I recommend you to, it's interesting, here's it:

In this session among with technical questions, there was one


Linus said that he doesn't care, he cares about the technology and "there are projects that are no more about the technology and about political correctness". For me, it's a bit sad because if one started a discussion, he should use actual arguments instead of curse language and insults. Here's the link from kernel mailing list:

https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/7/6/495

So, systemd and Lennart Poettering are about both culture and technology.

Linux was created as a clone of Unix and it succeeded. Then appeared a bunch of people who started changing native Unix components, but if Wayland and Mir don't have such ambitions then Lennart and The Team have. They included it in GNOME (but since GNOME 3 is more about visual appealing, this doesn't bother technical people beacuse, how it was said, "[they] switched to Cinnamon, Xfce, Mate...") and now almost each distribution adopted it except for Slackware, Gentoo, Funtoo and BSD and other Unix (Solaris, OpenIndiana). Under the pressure of systemd criticism, Lennart said that


Thus it ruins some of Unix philosophy. Some will say "GNU is Not Unix!", yes, it its clone.

Kernel

"Linux for losers?"

http://www.forbes.com/2005/06/16/linux-bsd-unix-cz_dl_0616theo.html

Theo De Raadt thoughts on Linux and I agree with him and also his personality is more appealing for me.

Linux kernel is heavier and bulkier unlike BSD and OpenBSD in particular, and GNU sometimes don't cover your needs in one utility. For example, if you need to connect to a network there is the only command in BSD while in GNU there are many for different kinds of connection.

Actually, I respect everyone contributed, contribute and is thinking to contribute to the Community. If you are such person, you probably make a difference. And of course I respect the work that GNU/Linux project did.

Now I want to know your opinions on this. Don't hesitate and write what you think.

Cheers, mates

I've learned over the span of my online life this:
"I never argue with an idiot because it brings me down to their level and they beat me with experience!"

 

[blackneos940]

I've learned over the span of my online life this:
"I never argue with an idiot because it brings me down to their level and they beat me with experience!"

Ooh, I like..... :3 Who said that though.....? It sounds familiar......... :\ A quote I haven't heard since.......

 

[ChristiW]

In 2002 I wanted to learn linux. A co-worker told me about it, I download it, tried to install it, had problems so I went on the internet and did searches. It brought me to a forum, I read the forum, but still couldn't understand what I was doing. I was told to "read the man file". No one told what a man file was, nor how to get to it. I was too afraid to ask, fearing my head would once again be bit off. They made me feel stupid and unwelcome in their high brain society. I didn't want to become part of that sort of community, either online nor in "real life". So, I gave up.

A few months ago, a guy and I were talking and the subject of Linux came up. He uses it exclusively. I told him about my issues 13 years past and he said to "Try Mint", so for a couple of months, I read up on it and browsed the forums. Seemed like things have changed and Mr. BigBrain doesn't have to feel so superior any more. There are a few forums where they haven't changed, but I won't go to them. I like it here and I most definitely like the articles and tutorials that are posted. It hasn't been the past day or so since I joined that I actually came to the general forums and found the responses to members asking questions have been, for the most part, friendly and not demeaning.

I think of all the things I could have done, and most especially, better for my clients, had the community been more accepting way back then.

I have found in life, that there are many people who only feel good about themselves if they put another down. This type of behavior isn't exclusive to the Linux community, though it was very prevalent back in 2002. They wonder why more people aren't using Linux and don't realize that it's not because of Linux, it's because of the community. Which is sad because it's the community that makes Linux. Some times, in order to teach another, you have to talk to their level of understanding, something is just not quite clicking with them and if you're rude and appear all knowing, but unwilling to come to their level, you'll lose them and might never win them back.

Every expert was once a novice. Sometimes they forget that.

 

[Mitt Green]

I hope that there is much bigger number of nice guys in the community, but bitter taste makes you forget about sweets you ate before, so we think more about jerks than more about peers who really help others.

 

[ChristiW]

Yes, there have been a lot of nice people I have run into here and elsewhere that has changed my point of view.

I write data-driven LOB applications for small businesses who can't afford their own IT dept. If I can learn and program in Linux, I can save my clients a lot of money and stop taking a cut in my fee so they can pay all the licensing and software costs from Microsoft. It's a win-win either way. Most definitely it will give them (and myself) more options.