PC Upgrades

[Andriko]

Hi all,

I am going to upgrade an ageing PC I have and run it as my day to day PC, but replace Windows with Linux. It's main uses will be Browsing/Streaming and part time gaming.

It's too expensive to buy a new PC, and besides the one I want to upgrade runs fast enough - but I've never replaced parts before and wanted to get advice from people which are the best ones to get. The Motherboard is an MSI Z97.

Primarily I want to replace the SSD and HDD to a single SSD. According the internet, the board has 6 SATA 6gb/s ports, and it seems the best option is a Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - I assume this will fit, but can anyone recommend something with a similar price/performance but with a bit more storage on it? There are also PCI ports on it apparently, are they better to use for an SSD? I don't now the difference to be honest.

The next thing I'd like to do is upgrade the RAM and GPU, but if the costs start going up than it's not essential (the same with the CPU). The Motherboard fits 32GB DDR3 (4x8 slots I think). 32GB might be overkill, so I will aim for 16GB for now - once again, any recommendations for something cheap but effective? I am at a loss as to what will actually fit.

I'll forget about the GPU for now. I don't think there are any left in the world, and I don't think the CPU is worth the time or the money at the moment.

I am assuming that changing these parts is not too difficult!

Thanks for the help,

A

 

[Brickwizard]

Let the dog see the rabbit, If it's up and running, please run terminal command, sudo inxi -Fnmx and post back the full results

 

[Andriko]

I'd love to, but you'll have to account for my idiocy and the fact that it's running windows, so the linux command won't work - what's the info you are after?

 

[Brickwizard]

Well, that command would have told me everything about your hardware from its make and model number, to such things as the number of ram slots and the max each slot can take, which processor [full details] the motherboard cpu etc

this is what mine looks like

Host: wizard-HP-ProDesk-400-G2-5-SFF Kernel: 5.4.0-100-generic x86_64
bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 9.3.0 Desktop: Cinnamon 5.2.7
Distro: Linux Mint 20.3 Una base: Ubuntu 20.04 focal
Machine:
Type: Desktop System: HP product: HP ProDesk 400 G2.5 SFF v: N/A
serial: CZC5491V0K
Mobo: HP model: 8105 serial: N/A UEFI: AMI v: 02.19 date: 02/16/2017
Memory:
RAM: total: 3.77 GiB used: 1.36 GiB (36.1%)
Array-1: capacity: 16 GiB slots: 2 EC: None max module size: 8 GiB
note: est.
Device-1: DIMM3 size: No Module Installed
Device-2: DIMM1 size: 4 GiB speed: 1600 MT/s type: DDR3
CPU:
Topology: Quad Core model: Intel Core i5-4590S bits: 64 type: MCP
arch: Haswell rev: 3 L2 cache: 6144 KiB
flags: avx avx2 lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx
bogomips: 23945
Speed: 798 MHz min/max: 800/3700 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 799 2: 798
3: 798 4: 799
Graphics:
Device-1: Intel Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics
vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: i915 v: kernel bus ID: 00:02.0
Display: server: X.Org 1.20.13 driver: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa
resolution: 1920x1080~60Hz
OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel HD Graphics 4600 (HSW GT2)
v: 4.5 Mesa 21.2.6 direct render: Yes
Audio:
Device-1: Intel Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor HD Audio
vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 00:03.0
Device-2: Intel 8 Series/C220 Series High Definition Audio
vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 00:1b.0
Device-3: Aveo USB2.0 Camera type: USB driver: snd-usb-audio,uvcvideo
bus ID: 3-3:4
Device-4: C-Media Audio Adapter (Unitek Y-247A) type: USB
driver: hid-generic,snd-usb-audio,usbhid bus ID: 3-7:5
Sound Server: ALSA v: k5.4.0-100-generic
Network:
Device-1: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet
vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: r8169 v: kernel port: e000 bus ID: 02:00.0
IF: enp2s0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac:
Drives:
Local Storage: total: 465.76 GiB used: 31.83 GiB (6.8%)
ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Seagate model: ST500DM002-1BD142 size: 465.76 GiB
temp: 39 C
Partition:
ID-1: / size: 456.46 GiB used: 31.83 GiB (7.0%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda5
Sensors:
System Temperatures: cpu: 35.0 C mobo: N/A
Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A
Info:
Processes: 206 Uptime: 11h 29m Init: systemd runlevel: 5 Compilers:
gcc: 9.3.0 Shell: bash v: 5.0.17 inxi: 3.0.38
wizard@wizard-HP-ProDesk-400-G2-5-SFF:~$

 

[Brickwizard]

To advise you on upgrades, the make/Full model of the computer the full type [including the numbers of the cpu] would give me a start

 

[KGIII]

32 GB of RAM is about enough. That's what I'd consider *my* minimum these days.

Use your PCIe (one of 'em) as a riser card for M.2 NVMe SSD. The difference in speed is amazing and palpable. I'd almost suggest using your SSD first just so you can appreciate how fast it really is.

 

[Andriko]

To advise you on upgrades, the make/Full model of the computer the full type [including the numbers of the cpu] would give me a start

Thank wiz - I have a live Mint somewhere, I will boot it up with that when I get a chance and send you the info (though I might embarrass myself with the ancientness of the thing).

32 GB of RAM is about enough. That's what I'd consider *my* minimum these days.

Use your PCIe (one of 'em) as a riser card for M.2 NVMe SSD. The difference in speed is amazing and palpable. I'd almost suggest using your SSD first just so you can appreciate how fast it really is.

I didn't understand any of that, so I will definatley have to give it a go. But I think one of the PCIe's has the graphics card in it.

At the moment it's only got the 8GB of RAM, which is why I'd like to boost it, but the SSD is the priority, and if the riser thing makes that much difference, than that'd be great!

 

[KGIII]

The NVMe M.2 is still technically an SSD. It's just on a faster bus line and that makes all the difference.

When you get to the 'write' portion of a new installation, it takes just a few minutes to write the entire OS to disk. RAM and CPU account for some of that, but it'll still make a huge difference on your system.

 

[Brickwizard]

though I might embarrass myself with the ancientness of the thing).

You won't with me, this machine is 7 ys old, my lappy is 12 yrs old and my acer netbook is 14 yrs old [I have just retired a 21 yr old laptop, one of the beauties of Linux nothing is too old to run it, what upgrades I may recommend will also depend on intended use, no point in over icing the egg,

 

[Andriko]

System:
Host: mint Kernel: 5.4.0-91-generic x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 9.3.0
Desktop: Cinnamon 5.2.7 Distro: Linux Mint 20.3 Una
base: Ubuntu 20.04 focal
Machine:
Type: Desktop System: MSI product: MS-7850 v: 1.0 serial: N/A
Mobo: MSI model: Z87-G41 PC Mate(MS-7850) v: 1.0 serial: N/A
BIOS: American Megatrends v: 1.2 date: 06/07/2013

Memory:
RAM: total: 7.72 GiB used: 1.10 GiB (14.3%)
Array-1: capacity: 32 GiB slots: 4 EC: None max module size: 8 GiB
note: est.
Device-1: ChannelA-DIMM0 size: No Module Installed
Device-2: ChannelA-DIMM1 size: 4 GiB speed: 1333 MT/s type: DDR3
Device-3: ChannelB-DIMM0 size: No Module Installed
Device-4: ChannelB-DIMM1 size: 4 GiB speed: 1333 MT/s type: DDR3
CPU:
Topology: Quad Core model: Intel Core i5-4670K bits: 64 type: MCP
arch: Haswell rev: 3 L2 cache: 6144 KiB
flags: avx avx2 lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx
bogomips: 27200
Speed: 2583 MHz min/max: 800/3800 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 1674 2: 1847
3: 1647 4: 1588
Graphics:
Device-1: NVIDIA GK106 [GeForce GTX 660] vendor: Micro-Star MSI
driver: nouveau v: kernel bus ID: 01:00.0
Display: server: X.Org 1.20.11 driver: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa
resolution: 1920x1080~60Hz
OpenGL: renderer: NVE6 v: 4.3 Mesa 21.0.3 direct render: Yes
Audio:
Device-1: Intel 8 Series/C220 Series High Definition Audio
vendor: Micro-Star MSI driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 00:1b.0
Device-2: NVIDIA GK106 HDMI Audio vendor: Micro-Star MSI
driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 01:00.1
Device-3: BEHRINGER UMC404HD 192k type: USB driver: snd-usb-audio
bus ID: 3-9:5
Sound Server: ALSA v: k5.4.0-91-generic
Network:
Device-1: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet
vendor: Micro-Star MSI driver: r8169 v: kernel port: d000 bus ID: 03:00.0
IF: enp3s0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: d4:3d:7e:df:30:ad
Device-2: Qualcomm Atheros AR9462 Wireless Network Adapter vendor: Lite-On
driver: ath9k v: kernel port: d000 bus ID: 06:00.0
IF: wlp6s0 state: down mac: 24:fd:52:3c:4c:a7
Drives:
Local Storage: total: 1.04 TiB used: 114.2 MiB (0.0%)
ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Seagate model: ST1000DM003-1CH162 size: 931.51 GiB
temp: 27 C
ID-2: /dev/sdb vendor: SanDisk model: SDSSDP128G size: 117.38 GiB
temp: 31 C
ID-3: /dev/sdc type: USB vendor: SanDisk model: USB 3.2Gen1
size: 14.32 GiB
Partition:
ID-1: / size: 3.86 GiB used: 72.8 MiB (1.8%) fs: overlay source: ERR-102
ID-2: /var/log size: 11.97 GiB used: 41.4 MiB (0.3%) fs: ext4
dev: /dev/sdc3
Sensors:
System Temperatures: cpu: 29.8 C mobo: 27.8 C gpu: nouveau temp: 31 C
Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A gpu: nouveau fan: 870
Info:
Processes: 223 Uptime: 2m Init: systemd runlevel: 5 Compilers: gcc: 9.3.0
Shell: bash v: 5.0.17 inxi: 3.0.38

There we go - any advice would be great. Anything to give it a refresh for a new Linux install would be much appreciated. Intended use is mainly for browsing/streaming and some gaming.

 

[Andriko]

The NVMe M.2 is still technically an SSD. It's just on a faster bus line and that makes all the difference.

Ah, I think I get it now! I've come across 'M.2' before! Are there any brands you would recommend above the others?

You won't with me, this machine is 7 ys old, my lappy is 12 yrs old and my acer netbook is 14 yrs old [I have just retired a 21 yr old laptop, one of the beauties of Linux nothing is too old to run it, what upgrades I may recommend will also depend on intended use, no point in over icing the egg,

Yes, another reason I am switching over to Linux. I am a bit fed up of newer versions of windows that need newer PCs. The late 90s/ early 00s when your hardware was outdated everyweek are long past now!

 

[f33dm3bits]

Ah, I think I get it now! I've come across 'M.2' before! Are there any brands you would recommend above the others?

Samsung 970 EVO Plus PCIe 3.0 SSD | Samsung Semiconductor Global

Samsung 970 EVO Plus maximizes the potential of NVMe™ bandwidth for unbeatable computing. In capacities up to 2TB, with reliability of up to 1,200 TBW.

www.samsung.com

 

[arochester]

Primarily I want to replace the SSD and HDD to a single SSD.

Unless you are short of space the cheapest option might be to stay with what you have. Configuring with Linux can improve your start-up time.

What you need to do is to make sure that the boot, swap and root is on the SSD, and then the Home is on the HDD.

That way your computer will boot from the SDD, at the speed of the SSD and use the HDD only for storage.

Have a look at https://www.linuxjournal.com/content/installing-ubuntu-two-hard-drives

 

[KGIII]

Ah, I think I get it now! I've come across 'M.2' before! Are there any brands you would recommend above the others?

I'm not terribly fond of recommending brands. If something goes amiss, it reflects on me. So, I will share my experiences with one vendor.

I've had great luck with some "Team Group" stuff - with a great price point. I have NOT used their M.2 at this time. Mine are Kingston, which do the trick nicely - but cost a bit more.

I can't vouch for Team Group's M.2 NVMe stuff - but only because I've yet to need to try it. When the time comes, I will not hesitate to try their brand. I dunno what they're doing, but their solid state stuff is brilliantly priced and seems to have performance and longevity parity with the big dogs. Maybe the corners they're cutting are in advertising? I have no idea, but I've personally had good experiences.

They've got a good presence on NewEgg.

 

[KGIII]

Also, that's plenty of compute resources to run Linux. It's not really old when compared with what some folks use.

 

[Andriko]

I'm not terribly fond of recommending brands. If something goes amiss, it reflects on me. So, I will share my experiences with one vendor.

I've had great luck with some "Team Group" stuff - with a great price point. I have NOT used their M.2 at this time. Mine are Kingston, which do the trick nicely - but cost a bit more.

I can't vouch for Team Group's M.2 NVMe stuff - but only because I've yet to need to try it. When the time comes, I will not hesitate to try their brand. I dunno what they're doing, but their solid state stuff is brilliantly priced and seems to have performance and longevity parity with the big dogs. Maybe the corners they're cutting are in advertising? I have no idea, but I've personally had good experiences.

They've got a good presence on NewEgg.

Thanks kc - and quite understandable about recommendations. I will look at Team Group. I am often reluctant to spend extra just for the name as there is usually someone doing the same thing a bit cheaper!

Unless you are short of space the cheapest option might be to stay with what you have. Configuring with Linux can improve your start-up time.

What you need to do is to make sure that the boot, swap and root is on the SSD, and then the Home is on the HDD.

That way your computer will boot from the SDD, at the speed of the SSD and use the HDD only for storage.

Have a look at https://www.linuxjournal.com/content/installing-ubuntu-two-hard-drives

I am a bit short of space to be honest, the SSD is relatively tiny and the HDD pretty full, and I'd like to keep them around for a bit anyway just incase. Also, the computer needs some updating, and I've been meaning to learn how to DIY this stuff for a while anway.

 

[Andriko]

Also, that's plenty of compute resources to run Linux. It's not really old when compared with what some folks use.

Yes, I think it will be fine. It's biggest problem is the bloat and slowdown that seems to come with any Windows computer I've ever had. It's like Windows breeds animals on the disk space or something.

 

[Brickwizard]

Cost/benefit of upgrading your box
cheapest option is to increase the ram for daily computing what you have is fine and will work well, upgrading to 16mb will give you slightly better performance, if you intend on heavy gaming then take it to the 32mb max [4x8] the board will accept, New ram is around $5 per mb standard ram or $9 per mb for gaming ram, note no point in buying anything faster than 1333mh as that is the max board speed
second option changing drives, the segate is fine for general storage and ok for game storage, likewise the Scandisc SSD is fairly quick and ideal for the Os to be on in most cases for light gaming and everyday use, NVMe are fast and ideal if you have large files you need to access quickly prices start from $40 for a basic 500 GB NVMe, but you will need to factor in the purchase of a NVMe/PCIe adaptor you will also need to check you have enough room next to your graphic card for it to fit, you can fit them in a PCIe 4 slot but will work better in the PCIe16 slot if it's free, cost benefit debatable
3rd option upgrading the CPU, the fasted CPU to fit your machine is the I7-4770K, but it's only 0.2 Gb faster defiantly not cost-effective
the Graphics will run lighter games and if gaming is important , then at some time I would consider upgrading to something around 4 years old personally I don't think anything newer would be cost-effective
Bwiz

​

 

[Andriko]

Thanks Wiz, that's brilliant. There seems to be some SSDs which say PCIe in the title, so would they be compatible? Such as the Samsung 970 liked above, and there is a WD Blue SN550. I think both the PCI 16 slots are free, but I wouldn't know what else would go in there anyway. Eitherway, is using an adapter going to make things any more difficult/expensive than they otherwise would be?

However, if you think the current SSD is fine, than I might just upgrade that one alone (something like a Samsung 960?).

I will look into the RAM. Corsair seem to be the company that comes up the most, but any recommendations would be appreciated.

I agree that the CPU isn't worth the effort or the cost.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[KGIII]

It's biggest problem is the bloat and slowdown that seems to come with any Windows computer I've ever had.

You will see some of that with Linux, but not nearly as drastic. Software, by its nature, never gets smaller. (Sure, there are exceptions.) Then, you'll be installing your own software and making your own system changes - atop those made by the folks providing your updates.

For a new user, I recommend not tweaking it a whole lot, and sticking as much as they can with applications directly available in their repositories. Linux is remarkably stable until you go screwing with it. It's when you go tweaking and changing that it tends to fail.

Which is okay, if that's your route to learning. I call it 'learning by breaking' and it's a perfectly valid way to familiarize yourself with Linux - perhaps more so than by just generally using it and reading a few articles. Learning by breaking teaches you how the underlying system works, 'cause you've gotta fix what you broke. It's also generally a useful tool for teaching people how to properly backup their computer.

Anyhow, it'll slow down some. Not a whole lot, depending on what you do, but unlike entropy, software always moves to a more complex state.