Microsoft

SMDZyx!

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Hi
Starting to get abit tired 'bout Microsoft. Full compability with proggs that works in Win should piss them off?
Just for fun!
Naaah!Too much work!
Been "playing" since Dos 2.1 1440 Baud. My first pc was a 386sx/16 with 256Kb ram 20MB HDD (1986)
I'm OLD :)
 


Condobloke

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G'day, Welcome to linux.org

At 56, you are almost considered a youngster around here.
 
D

Deleted member 101831

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At 56, you are almost considered a youngster around here.
If 56 is considered "almost a youngster around here" what is someone in their early 30s considered around here.

Welcome to Linux.org SMDZyx!
 

Condobloke

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a rug rat ?
 

SpongebobFan1994

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wizardfromoz

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...what is someone in their early 30s considered around here...
Less inclined, for now, in developing
  • Arthritis
  • Osteoporosis
  • Type 2 Diabetes
  • Significant hair loss and
Less inclined to have to grunt to get out of bed in the morning.

Welcome to linux.org @SMDZyx!

Avagudweegend

Chris Turner
wizardfromoz
 

SpongebobFan1994

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Less inclined, for now, in developing
  • Arthritis
  • Osteoporosis
  • Type 2 Diabetes
  • Significant hair loss and
Less inclined to have to grunt to get out of bed in the morning.

Welcome to linux.org @SMDZyx!

Avagudweegend

Chris Turner
wizardfromoz
 

brickwizard

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Hillbilly H

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LOL no problems getin old unless you get "microsoft"
 

jpnilson

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First thing came to me was I remember 300 baud modems and even a little less. Back when main frames were the network. Remember looking at a data scope unplugging a users connection and plugging it back in. Using bi sync you could watch the entire login process in the clear. Quite entertaining the passwords some folks use.... ;) The world has changed quite a bit. The amount of overhead used to protect a connection is actually quite amazing. The multiple levels of encryption likely encountered through any network connection are a necessary but unfortunate use of cpu cycles.
 

Fanboi

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Linux.org ni Youkoso, SMDZyx-san (don't mind my being a weeb).

Yeah, M$ have a pretty evil business model:
TL;DR: Upgrade or you may not install your own apps on your Microsoft's now computer.

And it gets worse for Windows 11 (which shouldn't exist coz 10 was 'sposed to be the final and become a rolling release). Win11 decides what it runs on, the same thing they and everyone criticised MacOS for:

Aaaand on the note of Windows 11, MS have practically copied Apple (again, Apple's GUI came before MS and the common elements were borrowed):

Yes, you chose a good time to jump ship, coz the MS one will sink. They are trying to force TPM and get vendor lockins. Good luck asshats. Oh, and final irony: Azure runs about 50% on Linux.

Again, welcome to the world of chaos, freedom, and cookies.
 

SpongebobFan1994

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While Microsoft could still survive without Windows, they'd be on life support if that happened, because it's their biggest-selling product next to the Xbox. If that does happen (and I'm sure it will probably by the end of the decade), I can imagine Linkedin, Skype, and GitHub pulling out and going independent again, and Xbox breaking off to form their own company, which would be the final nail in Microsoft's coffin. I'd also laugh if Bill Gates eventually admitted he's gotten frustrated with how Windows has become. He could come back and try to save Windows, but by then, it'd be too little too late.
 

Fanboi

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This makes me think back to this one recent video from DistroTube: https://odysee.com/@DistroTube:2/windows-is-limitation.-linux-is-freedom!:6 With how restrictive 11 is now, I see Windows' future in a toilet bowl and circling down the drain. Eventually OSX, iOS, Stock Android, and Chromium will face the same fate. Good ridden!
I must point out a few flaws in that video:
- "Can't run Windows apps on Linux": WINE, VMs with full KVM.
- "Can't run Linux software on Windows": WSL, Cygwin, VMs again.
- "Free": there are paid-for things. Just open up Steam.
- "No closed apps": many softwares are providing closed binaries in their own repos or appimages.

But it's mostly a good advocacy for Linux. I definitely agree with you that Windows and Android belong in the crapper. IDK ChromeOS since I never used it and never will. OTOH, to be fair, MacOS is a good alternative for noobs. More secure, friendly, and efficient than Windows. It's a good way to transition to Linux/BSD coz it's actually a UNIX (like BSDs), which Linux is closely modelled after and what GNU userland coreutils actually extend. The Mac default shell is Bash, too.
 

Fanboi

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While Microsoft could still survive without Windows, they'd be on life support if that happened, because it's their biggest-selling product next to the Xbox. If that does happen (and I'm sure it will probably by the end of the decade), I can imagine Linkedin, Skype, and GitHub pulling out and going independent again, and Xbox breaking off to form their own company, which would be the final nail in Microsoft's coffin. I'd also laugh if Bill Gates eventually admitted he's gotten frustrated with how Windows has become. He could come back and try to save Windows, but by then, it'd be too little too late.
Lol, true. Though XBox is dying. Their biggest market is the US and UK. Most of Africa, Asia, Eastern Europe is dominated by Playstation. PS3 and PS4 ran a custom BSD-based OS especially optimised for gaming. XBox runs a stripped down Windows (NT kernel + lighter MS userland). Plus PS5 tech demo was amazing. The only thing that'll hurt sales is that new models will have shitty cooling (nothing you can't mod, I mean we were modding PS since PS1).
Gates DGAF about Windows. He's one of the top ten richest old white guys. He's gonna die in an orgy on a tropical island. Betcha XD
 

jpnilson

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One way to evolve is to place a limit on backwards compatibility. I am not a big fan of MS. Had dealings with them early in my career and they were ruthless. That said backwards compatibility is a cinder block on the ankle for forward progression. MS has indicated they will support windows 10 through 2025. That is long enough for any business to plan. Really should be beyond the reasonable life expectance of most hardware. I went through this with windows 7 machines. Every one hung on as long as they could because of budgetary considerations. End of day eventually its time to move on. Software is developed and evolves primarily because someone is willing to pay for it. I guess my thought is that making money isn't an evil plan it is the function of business. I became a big fan of linux late in my career because most appliances I worked with were based on linux. I wandered away from most Microsoft products because I could find the same for free using linux. There will always be someone who will take linux and create something proprietary that you will not be able to afford or want to pay for. Its your choice to move in other directions. I would tell you to respect licenses and donate when you can. If that does not happen free quality products may become quite limited.
 

Fanboi

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I don't know so much about limiting backwards compatibility. It should be a choice for some people. I don't think 5 years is a reasonable life expectancy, I think we're trapped in a world of planned obsolescence. My laptop is 5 years old. My previous one which I sold was from 2010 and the new owner only reported its death in 2017. The hdd was even older. I had swapped my retro laptop's 80GB hdd from the mid 2000s with it since I was selling my then-current laptop. And the HDD was Hitachi.
My best mate is still running an intel 4790 with a GTX 980 and he is only now starting an upgrade. He can still game. Most distros maintain i386 (32 bit) libs because they recognise there's still a need.
AntiX Linux's main goal is light weight but user-friendly because so many old machines are very useable. It's better than screwing up the planet further with e-waste.
I don't say we should halt progress, but pushing people to upgrade for the sake of it is just a dck move by MS because they don't really want to push for upgrades, more sidegrades to TPM2 vendor lock-ins. They also are cutting development costs. I get they're a business, but their model is fraught with BS. I mean there is zero, absolute zero, defence for preventing the user installing their own apps on their fcking PC without paying to do so. You already bought the OS. This is like DLC, but worse since it's a deliberately crippled Windows 10 version.
And so far as Android goes, yeah, Google is a business and have made something commercial from Linux, but I don't have an opt-out here. It's Android, iOS, or Windows Mobile. Unless I flash my device (which an average user can't do and which voids the warranty).

This entire commercial ecosystem is surreptitiously leading us sleep-walking into an era of complete vendor control. I have no qualms with a business making money, but unethically taking the end user's choice and freedom away is really just plain BS.

That's why as you say, we need to contribute more to FOSS now. We need devs be able to incentivise companies like nVidia to provide them an open graphics stack. We need to finance marketing. I tend to donate when I can, but to projects that I think people want, not necessarily what I want, coz I wanna see more people come over to our side because then my projects will get more support anyways.
 

jpnilson

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I have been through every version of MS product from the beginning. There of course is always a trade off. I am writing this from a laptop I should probably toss but it will still bring up a web browser. I don't upgrade because i don't have too. I still run MS because that is what it came with. Have a server in a back room that runs numerous VM mostly Ubuntu linux machines. They all do things I need them to do. I don't pledge allegiance to anything. Companies like Microsoft dont drive business they are driven by business. They have a market and provide solutions. You mentioned TPM. I am guessing that you are not happy with Microsofts need to create a secure environment. I have been encrypting drives for years and have had machines stolen. It would horrify me to have a pc that was not at least running bitlocker on its drives. Any business owner that does not encrypt their data at rest as well as when it is being transmitted would be a fool. Securing one business is a huge problem these days. Backwards compatibility causes a lot issues in balancing usability and security. Truth be told a business looks at hardware as a commodity. The data on or traversing through the hardware is far more valuable. Even as an individual I would quickly toss anything that I didnt feel like I could secure. I look at equipment as a means to do what I need to do. Guess to me just because something will boot doesnt mean it makes sense to use.
 

Fanboi

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My scope isn't narrowed to businesses, it's focused on users. At least that's what I've been talking about the last post. Although if there was longer-term support and life spans, it'd save companies money...
...But that's kind of not the point. It's the philosophical issue I have with this disposable society in which we live. Like I mentioned before, there's huge ecological damage from e-waste. Even if your business didn't benefit from longer lifespan products, others like schools/hospitals/libraries/other businesses/lower-income folk/disadvantaged communities/etc. would. You have the freedom to want the newest stuff for your business, but even if most businesses operated like that, it wouldn't justify lack of choice. It's bad practice by MS however you look at it. Even if you were to have a stance of toss it if you can't secure it, others may be quite capable of doing so, or maybe not even needing to. Again, e-waste. And, naturally, choice.

As to TPM, I have issues because it wreaked havoc on me in the darker ages. And for what? It does not provide a secure environment. Plenty exploits cropped up as I sat sighing. So, yes, I'm prejudiced now. I don't have an issue with MS trying to provide a secure system for their user base, so long as it doesn't end up governing the user by causing issues booting for example (yes it has been fixed, but it shouldn't have needed to be) and as long as it is actually secure, which it is not. Nothing is perfect. That's why I encourage users to secure their own systems, because security comes down to the competency of the individual or group and following good security practices.
Side-note:
IDK what the TPM subject has to do Bitlocker, but Bitlocker is nothing soecial. You can just as efficiently do a full disk encryption with almost any OS, without Bitlocker. On many Linux distros it asks this at install. Now if you wanted to encrypt just your data, there's the option of an encrypted partition or even a file-container (for portability). Of course it's still largely down to good security practices, whatever software or OS you use.

I don't see how backwards compatibility would cause usability or security issues, TBH, so I'm genuinely curious as to what problems it causes since I have neve had any.

I guess I fall into the category of waste not want not coz the first PC I had was a throw-away. All my subsequent prebuilts were, too. And the builds I did myself were from scraps (when you're a preteen in a third-world, scraps is all you can find/afford).
 
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