How painful is the iPad experience for a Linux user?

[GeckoLinux]

Hi there, I'm primarily a Linux laptop user since the early 2000's. I strongly prefer a "real computer" running Linux whenever possible, but I do need something more portable with support for modern proprietary apps as a secondary device. I've been using a 2018 midrange Android tablet supported by 3rd party ROMs, but it's starting to have hardware and battery problems and I'm pretty sure it won't last much longer. I keep my mobile devices for a very long time, and I absolutely hate how the manufacturers just throw devices over the fence with minimal or no OS updates. So I'm looking for an 8 - 9" replacement with at least 4GB of RAM that will be supported for quite a few years by the manufacturer with at least security patches.

I've been looking at new Android tablets, and there are essentially no good options for 8" - 9" models. The best value appears to be an obscure Chinese tablet that will probably have few or even zero future security patches, to say nothing of major Android version upgrades (nothing against Chinese brands, but I'm not going to buy from a manufacturer that doesn't offer security updates). And a small detail that really turns me off is that it doesn't seem to support automatic sleep/wake when using a tablet case with a magnetic cover. On the other end of the spectrum is a high-end Lenovo tablet that costs around US$350 on sale but is mainly sold in the Chinese market, and again with extremely poor Android update support from the manufacturer. So I'm not going to reward that lazy manufacturer with my money for such a low-effort maintenance policy.

So this brings me to the Apple walled garden ecosystem. I hate Apple and everything they represent. But the fact remains that they are the only manufacturer currently making an effort to design and -- most importantly -- maintain an 8" tablet model with decent hardware specs. They consistently support all their devices with security and feature updates for a relatively long time. So I'm looking seriously at a 6th gen iPad Mini. But as a long-time Linux and Android user I'm extremely reluctant to enter into the Apple space, which is the polar opposite of Linux and Android in terms of user freedoms. I mainly need my tablet for:

• A few proprietary apps (the ones I need are available for both Android and Apple)
• Firefox + uBlock (I know that IPadOS forces all browsers to use the WebKit engine, but it appears that 3rd browsers can at least implement their own extensions on top of that. Am I correct?)
• IMAP Email (on Android I use K9 or Thunderbird. I haven't checked if any open source clients exist for IPadOS.)
• Element Messenger (appears to exist in the Apple Store, not sure if it's any good on IPadOS.)
• File Manager (This appears to possibly be a major sticking point. I have no experience with IPadOS, but it sounds like the filesystem is abstracted out of the sight of the user, and files can only be opened in the apps that read that type of file? So I'm not sure if I could connect an iPad to a Linux computer via USB and transfer PDF / MP3 files and photos to/from the iPad? And/or what about transferring files to/from a NAS (running Samba)?

Does anybody here use an iPad or iPhone, and how much do you hate it as a Linux user? Thanks in advance!

 

[gvisoc]

I have an iPhone since 2016 and I was an iPad user since 2017 until 20xx, and no hatred involved. And I left the iPad because I’m one of those laptop kind of folks, not because the device is wrong in anyway.

It’s a bit of a gamble that depends on what you want to do. I find iOS and iPad OS quite good products for what they are, there’s a decent chance that a device will last 6+ years. And you have a plethora of SSH clients, terminal emulators and git clients that can bridge many gaps. I find Working Copy my perfect companion for what I do in my Linux boxes, but that’s me.

For those apps you mention? Nothing wrong. Files is compatible with many remote protocols and SMB with Tailscale work in mobility pretty good.

I guess where you can see the seams of it all is when you try to sync files with anything else than iCloud (NextCloud, or WebDAV are my personal grudge), but I made my way with git workflows using the aforementioned Working Copy.

I hope this doesn’t leave you more unsure!

 

[GeckoLinux]

Hi there @gvisoc , thanks a lot for the detailed reply. That was helpful, I didn't even realize that the Files app existed on the iPad, and it looks like Files also speaks SMB (with a config tweak on the server)?

So I guess my doubts now revolve around how abstracted the device's filesystem is. Can I create random folders on it with Files, and will those folders and all their contents show up in my Linux file manager with libimobiledevice properly configured? I'm confused by https://libimobiledevice.org/#collapse-2 which says "Sorry, music synchronization with newer devices is currently not supported". I'm used to Android devices that present the entire contents of their user-accessible filesystem when connected via USB as if it were a normal USB pendrive, so I don't understand how there can be limitations on transferring "music" to an iPad or why the OS would know or care what kind of file type it is.

 

[linux_pi]

I have an iPhone since 2016 and I was an iPad user since 2017 until 20xx, and no hatred involved. And I left the iPad because I’m one of those laptop kind of folks, not because the device is wrong in anyway.

It’s a bit of a gamble that depends on what you want to do. I find iOS and iPad OS quite good products for what they are, there’s a decent chance that a device will last 6+ years. And you have a plethora of SSH clients, terminal emulators and git clients that can bridge many gaps. I find Working Copy my perfect companion for what I do in my Linux boxes, but that’s me.

For those apps you mention? Nothing wrong. Files is compatible with many remote protocols and SMB with Tailscale work in mobility pretty good.

I guess where you can see the seams of it all is when you try to sync files with anything else than iCloud (NextCloud, or WebDAV are my personal grudge), but I made my way with git workflows using the aforementioned Working Copy.

I hope this doesn’t leave you more unsure!

I feel like apple just wants to target people who love ergonomics. You can't really modify or customize anything - both hardware and software. Mostly for people who just want to work and they don't really need to customize their parts.
I have an iPad 2nd Generation that is really slow. I'm not sure what the specs are. You can't upgrade it to the latest iOS version, can't use the latest apps, can't pry it open. (Even a technician tried, resulting in a broken screen.).

I would say it's good for an overall user who needs basic technologies that isn't very techy. The apple ecosystem is designed to lure you in. They've proved that ergonomics is one of the main features that customers prioritize unknowingly. When you buy an iPhone, you buy an iPad, an Apple watch, a Macbook - The list never ends. They also don't really support or entertain using their old devices. No support is available.


Its just a matter of time before you get used to the iOS. It's not that I hate apple completely. I get their point, but maybe be a little considerate?


Hope this helps
Thanks

 

[jfmorris]

The Files app lets you manage a set of folders that is NOT at the root level of the device filesystem. Rather, it would be akin to seeing your home folder under Linux. There are various Documents folders, Downloads folders, and any files you saved from an app appear here. It syncs with their iCloud service, and with any other Apple devices you choose to sync with.

I'm a long time Linux user - since 1992, initially with SLS and later Slackware back in those days. I recently came across a big box of 3.5" floppies loaded with Slackware in fact!

To my knowledge, you will not hook your iPad via a USB cable to your Linux desktop/laptop, and browse the full filesystem. Just for kicks I just now plugged my iPhone into one of the front ports on my Ubuntu 24.04 desktop, and the phone itself prompted me asking if I wanted to share videos, photos and music with the device I was connecting to. I said yes. Nothing seemed to happen over in Ubuntu, but I do have these messages from the kernel:

[1270337.467372] usb 3-4: new high-speed USB device number 3 using ehci-pci
[1270337.602773] usb 3-4: New USB device found, idVendor=05ac, idProduct=12a8, bcdDevice=14.05
[1270337.602795] usb 3-4: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3
[1270337.602804] usb 3-4: Product: iPhone
[1270337.602811] usb 3-4: Manufacturer: Apple Inc.
[1270337.602817] usb 3-4: SerialNumber: 00008110000E6CA80AB8801E
[1270337.862890] usbcore: registered new device driver apple-mfi-fastcharge
[1270338.004920] usbcore: registered new interface driver ipheth

I do know that if I connect with a cable to a macOS system, that Finder (Apple's file manager) shows the device in the sidebar, and lets you browse the EXPOSED portions of the device filesystem. And I do recall many years ago, dropping MP3 files onto n iPod using a Windows XP system.

So the question really is, can Linux get to the exposed portions of the filesystem that macOS can get to? The root of the device is pretty much a walled garden, and in my mind, rightfully so - for security, and to keep folks from screwing their phones up into an inoperable state.

I think you need to manage your expectations, rather than whip yourself into a worried frenzy that you can't poke around the filesystem of the device. The iPad (and iPhone) are very nice APP CENTRIC devices. While they may have a CPU that is comparable to a laptop or desktop in some cases, they are truly not meant as general purpose computers. I look at them as content consumption devices. It sounds like you NEED to run some apps, and that the iPad has those apps. The fact you can't poke around the filesystem should be immaterial, as that really doesn't preclude what you need the device for.

As a LONG TIME Linux user, who also uses Mac, Windows and other tools as needed to get the job done, I've never found anything about iOS uncomfortable. In fact, as an iOS and Android app developer, I find Android to be a major pain in the butt to develop for, compared to iOS. Mostly due to fragmentation caused by manufactures, and inconsistency in user interface across a plethora of devices. This has led to my PERSONAL devices being iPad and iPhone, while also maintaining Android devices for development and test purposes.

 

[jfmorris]

As an update, I disconnected the iPhone, and reconnected to the computer, and the SECOND time, Ubuntu popped up asking me a few questions, I had to type the PIN in on the phone (the one I lock the phone with), and suddenly, the sidebar in Ubuntu shows an icon for the phone. Browsing it seems to show that it is the Documents folder on the phone. But the file manager on Ubuntu cannot create a file or folder there. So, not sure what I am looking at.

This certainly bears more investigation...

 

[dos2unix]

I have an iPad, to me, it's very similar to using Gnome or KDE mobile. Even android on a cell phone.

 

[GeckoLinux]

Thanks to everyone for the helpful replies.

@dos2unix Yes, I'm not too concerned about the interface on the device, like @linux_pi mentioned, Apple makes a decent effort to have good ergonomics and human interface guidelines. I'm more concerned about the limitations and restrictions that Apple imposes to "dumb down" the device and how that will affect its ability to interface with my primary Linux system.

@jfmorris Thanks a lot for testing and reporting the results, I really appreciate it. And yes, I should have been more clear, I don't care about accessing the root filesystem, but I would like to have unrestricted access to a folder that lets me create subfolders and organize my files there however I want regardless of what file type they are and which app created them. I still don't understand it completely, but from what I've researched it sounds like iOS / iPadOS presents its filesystem in a siloed/segmented way when connected over USB to a Linux computer like this:

1. Media filesystem (with the proper packages installed this is plug'n'play on Linux)
https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/linux-iphone-6s-ios-11.html

• photos
• videos
• "Books" (Not sure if it's writable. Could PDF files be placed here and readable with Apple's PDF viewer?)
• music (not visible)

2. Per-app file storage (might require manually mounting some of them with ifuse)
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/IOS#Manual_mounting
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Apple_iPod,_iPad,_iPhone#To_Apps_on_the_iDevice
https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/iphone-local-music-vlc.html

So if I understand it right, the Media filesystem would let me transfer photos and videos and maybe PDF files, but I assume they would only be visible to the stock iPadOS viewers for those file types. And then some apps might expose their document storage via the Per-app file storage mechanism, so for example I would not be able to upload MP3 files for listening to them in the stock music player, but I could install VLC on the iPad and upload MP3 files to its storage location and only listen to them with VLC.

Frankly the whole thing sounds incredibly convoluted and abstracted, I want to have all my files in one central location with my own file structure that is visible to all installed apps. But I guess I can't be too picky, because with the freedom of the Android ecosystem also leads to fragmentation, and there are currently no well supported Android devices in the tablet size I need. Or if I'm getting something wrong in my research about iOS / iPadOS I would be happy to be proven wrong.

 

[gvisoc]

On top of the above, very little left to answer.

I didn't have to tweak anything on my server for smb shares to work from Files, aside of installing tailscale for me to be able to access my shares outside of my local home network. Nothing at all. Not sure if this depends on the server's protocol version, but if it works I am using an unmodified Synology DS918+ that has a few miles on its back.

The filesystem is sandboxed, e.g., for example of you want to have your music files in the device, you need to place them in the right sandbox folder *. There's no concept of root folder. And then, there are some preconfigured folders in the device such as downloads, and "device" where you could create your folders.

In regards to this last comment and to the (*) asterisk, there's effectively support to share folders between apps, but it's not well / widely implemented by most apps. Working copy works that way, for example I have set up Working Copy to access LogSeq's folder, and do the gitty git magic there. But again, don't take it for granted or as the standard.

When it comes to handle your files from the computer, everything is mostly working out of the box or by installing ifuse. These are captures of my KDE file manager accessing the iPhone sandboxes, and particularly Doppi's one (my music player of choice) through the cable:

 

[gvisoc]

In terms of using their stock apps for media, I don't do that. The Photos and Videos are managed as if the device was a camera (see below) but for books and music I use other third party apps.

I should have said this: when connecting an apple device, your computer will see the following:

• A camera storage device connected over usb, in any case, which will offer the views below
• If you have ifuse installed and you trust the computer on the phone:
  • An ethernet network device (ethernet over USB)
  • An extended filesystem as described above.

And inside it you can see all the photos and videos:

 

[GeckoLinux]

Thanks very much @gvisoc , super useful first-person information there.

The filesystem is sandboxed, e.g., for example of you want to have your music files in the device, you need to place them in the right sandbox folder *. There's no concept of root folder. And then, there are some preconfigured folders in the device such as downloads, and "device" where you could create your folders.

So I could put MP3 files somewhere inside "device", and the native Music app wouldn't be able to read them but a third-party app could? Could I create a folder called let's say "Event_2024-10-01" and transfer into it via USB an MP3 and a JPG and a PDF file and be able to access that folder with the iPad and open each of the files in a compatible viewer?

 

[ML_113]

I was given an iPad for my 80th birthday. I can say that it's a very good device.
It handles all my need just fine: Netflix, Youtube, Chromecast, Google Drive, Emails (iCloud+Gmail), Earphones ...
The only thing I hate about Apple (due to previous experience) is that it will become a door knob in 7 or 8 years or so.

 

[GeckoLinux]

The only thing I hate about Apple (due to previous experience) is that it will become a door knob in 7 or 8 years or so.

Yep, I know what you mean. That's why I like "real" computers that allow the owner to install a generic up-to-date OS essentially for as long as the hardware still works. But I guess realistically most Android devices would break well before 7 or 8 years of use, and none of the manufacturers support them for that long either. However the 3rd party ROM developers do give many old Android devices a 2nd lease on life, but that's also a big fragmented mess depending on the device type and its popularity and whether or not the bootloader is unlockable.

 

[gvisoc]

So I could put MP3 files somewhere inside "device", and the native Music app wouldn't be able to read them but a third-party app could? Could I create a folder called let's say "Event_2024-10-01" and transfer into it via USB an MP3 and a JPG and a PDF file and be able to access that folder with the iPad and open each of the files in a compatible viewer?

It would work the other way around. Provided that you have a third-party app to play those files, like VLC for example, first you install that app, iOS would create its sandbox, and then you can drop files in its sandbox.

If you have an app that complies with iOS obscure way of handling shared folders across apps, then you could access music files in a random folder under Device created by you using the Files App. But don't count on it. As I said, it's not widely adopted and I can only guess it's because it may have some limitations that makes the sandboxed model the way to go for most.

 

[aeiou]

Hi there, I'm primarily a Linux laptop user since the early 2000's. I strongly prefer a "real computer" running Linux whenever possible, but I do need something more portable with support for modern proprietary apps as a secondary device. I've been using a 2018 midrange Android tablet supported by 3rd party ROMs, but it's starting to have hardware and battery problems and I'm pretty sure it won't last much longer. I keep my mobile devices for a very long time, and I absolutely hate how the manufacturers just throw devices over the fence with minimal or no OS updates. So I'm looking for an 8 - 9" replacement with at least 4GB of RAM that will be supported for quite a few years by the manufacturer with at least security patches.

I've been looking at new Android tablets, and there are essentially no good options for 8" - 9" models. The best value appears to be an obscure Chinese tablet that will probably have few or even zero future security patches, to say nothing of major Android version upgrades (nothing against Chinese brands, but I'm not going to buy from a manufacturer that doesn't offer security updates). And a small detail that really turns me off is that it doesn't seem to support automatic sleep/wake when using a tablet case with a magnetic cover. On the other end of the spectrum is a high-end Lenovo tablet that costs around US$350 on sale but is mainly sold in the Chinese market, and again with extremely poor Android update support from the manufacturer. So I'm not going to reward that lazy manufacturer with my money for such a low-effort maintenance policy.

So this brings me to the Apple walled garden ecosystem. I hate Apple and everything they represent. But the fact remains that they are the only manufacturer currently making an effort to design and -- most importantly -- maintain an 8" tablet model with decent hardware specs. They consistently support all their devices with security and feature updates for a relatively long time. So I'm looking seriously at a 6th gen iPad Mini. But as a long-time Linux and Android user I'm extremely reluctant to enter into the Apple space, which is the polar opposite of Linux and Android in terms of user freedoms. I mainly need my tablet for:

• A few proprietary apps (the ones I need are available for both Android and Apple)
• Firefox + uBlock (I know that IPadOS forces all browsers to use the WebKit engine, but it appears that 3rd browsers can at least implement their own extensions on top of that. Am I correct?)
• IMAP Email (on Android I use K9 or Thunderbird. I haven't checked if any open source clients exist for IPadOS.)
• Element Messenger (appears to exist in the Apple Store, not sure if it's any good on IPadOS.)
• File Manager (This appears to possibly be a major sticking point. I have no experience with IPadOS, but it sounds like the filesystem is abstracted out of the sight of the user, and files can only be opened in the apps that read that type of file? So I'm not sure if I could connect an iPad to a Linux computer via USB and transfer PDF / MP3 files and photos to/from the iPad? And/or what about transferring files to/from a NAS (running Samba)?

Does anybody here use an iPad or iPhone, and how much do you hate it as a Linux user? Thanks in advance!

I fairly recently bought a new Lenovo Tab P12 (12.7 inch) Android Tablet. Included was an active stylus. I like this tablet quite a lot, even better than the Samsung Tablet that I had. I can use a Bluetooth Keyboard and Bluetooth Mouse with this tablet, it even has a sort of Desktop Computer mode. Battery life is exceptional, I can surf and check my emails and watch movies and then some, on a single charge.