How do you back up your files?

[Mike-BTU]

Well, on the disk I had, it was not stored in a middle layer. That's the way it should be.

 

[Mike-BTU]

I suppose I could go back to using Clonezilla if needed, but last time I tried it I got some wierd error that I couldn't resolve on my own.

I use Foxclone. GUI interface, works on either Linux or Windows.

https://foxclone.org/

 

[KGIII]

Well, on the disk I had, it was not stored in a middle layer. That's the way it should be.

I'd probably not rely on those disks for any serious storage. Back when they were popular, I'm sure all sorts of companies tried to cut corners when manufacturing them.

That sort of stuff wouldn't surprise me at all.

If the inner layer was too close to the outer layer, they'd just ship it and hope nobody noticed.

I do remember getting bad batches of disks, where many of the writes would fail entirely. Like, an unacceptable percentage of the writes would fail. By the time you had enough data, say 30% out of 100 failed, it was too late to do anything except write them a scathing letter. In return, they'd send you a coupon for your next purchase (or do even less about it) but you'd never want to buy anything from that brand again!

Back when DVDs were popular, I bought a large batch (1,000) of them. They were 'bare' and meant to be used by the people who pressed DVDs en masse and professionally. Those were quite good. You could only tell the 'write' side by looking at the disk as that was a purple color. I bought them on eBay (I'm pretty sure). Later, I thought about it and figured that someone stole them from work or some company had gone out of business.

I used those for the longest time. Back then, 4.5 GB was a lot of data and DVDs were still stupidly expensive. Google tells me that they were still a few dollars each and I know that I paid pennies on the dollar. I don't remember exactly what I paid but it was not much, especially considering that shipping was free and this was a large and heavy package.

At the time, I had a lot of data that could be backed up on a DVD. I could even set the burning software up to split the data up across multiple DVDs (just like we'd once done with CDs). So, as I sat there using the computer, I'd keep loading in new blank DVDs until the backup was complete. I'd often take those DVDs to work and store them there just in case something happened.

I'd not be surprised to find out that I still have some of those DVDs around here somewhere. I gave a bunch away. I'd also burn stuff to give away. In a weird bit of fate, back then it was I who had the broadband connection. So, I was always burning stuff and giving it away - just with more space than I could fit on a CD.

Ah, memories...

But, at least it's tied to the thread subject! Even back then, I made it a point to store a copy of my data in a separate location. In my case, it was a safe at the office. Unless one is a hermit, they can probably do similar with a friend, a neighbor, or even a cheap safe deposit box at their local bank. (Safe deposit boxes are relatively inexpensive where I live.)

 

[MikeWalsh]

I'd think the opposite. That's when I'd think most about backed up data, from insurance forms to family pictures, that'd be when I want a backup the most.

That's because you appear to be more organized than most, David. You always seem to be thinking at least 3 steps ahead of everybody else!

It's a good mindset to have. I often wish more folks were similarly inclined.

For me, it's backups of everything - system stuff, 'saves' AND personal data - to a pair of external drives. And anything I consider to be essential is backed-up to the cloud, too.

In my case, I wrote my own utility to back things up specific to the way Puppy works.


Mike.

 

[bob466]

Just backing up just files is a thing of the past and everyone seemed to do just that in Linux years ago.

I remember reading on another Forum years ago...just backup your files because it's easy to re-install the Distro.

It maybe easy to install the Distro but what about everything else.

I backup my files...videos...documents etc to an External HDD...then create an image of my system with Foxclone...Redorescue and last but not least Timeshift...of course Timeshift snapshots are kept on a separate External HDD than Foxclone and Redorescue because Timeshift requires the Drive to be EXT4.

 

[MikeWalsh]

See, with Puppy it doesn't matter whether you're talking about:-

• "System" files - The highly-compressed SFS packages that comprise each and every Puppy; 'base', or 'main' SFS; zdrv, or kernel modules SFS; fdrv, or firmware SFS; adrv, or "extra software" SFS).
• "Software" packages - Everything you've added/installed over and above the 'vanilla' Puppy, as it comes out of the box, goes into the 'save' folder.
• "Personal data" - Stuff that's the product of your own time and effort. This is far and away the most valuable, because it's usually irreplaceable.

Everything in the above list is 'merged' together at boot time via the aufs 'layering' file-system kernel module.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​

All these items can be added/removed/replaced independently of each other (the only ones that must 'match' are the kernel (vmlinuz) and the zdrv (kernel modules)).....and every one of these can be simply copied with the "cp" command. This is why I've so often said that backing-up/restoring Puppy is such a simple, easy task.

In some ways, you can liken a Puppy to a set of giant Lego bricks. She's often that easy to strip down or re-build the way the user wants to.

I scripted/built my own, simple-to-use backup/restore utility for Puppy, based entirely around the "cp" command ( + options). For us, you don't NEED owt else.

'SimpleBackupAndRestore' will let you back-up or restore:-

• An entire 'frugal' install directory
• A 'save'-file or -folder (the -file was the original method, but was fixed in size. The -folder expands along with the contents, up to the amount of free space available on the partition)
• Personal data. Nuff said!

Simple is GOOD. The easier you can make things, the less likely they are to go wrong...


Mike.

 

[MikeRocor]

I thought about it and figured that someone stole them from work or some company had gone out of business.

My brother worked as a custodian at a local community college and he brought me a stack of a hundred or so DVD R/W and half that size stack of CD R/W that were being discarded. I didn't turn them down because the price was right ("If it's free, it's for me"), but really...

I've used exactly one of them - burned an ISO of my OS to it to boot an ancient machine from - but I refuse to rely on any optical media for data backup. I find them so susceptible to data loss from microscopic scratches that it would be like having no backup at all - I have lost data that way and it's not going to happen again.

 

[KGIII]

That's because you appear to be more organized than most, David.

I lost some very valuable data in the 90s. That left a lasting impression. I also like to be prepared for any crisis that may come up, because things are less of a crisis if you're prepared.

but I refuse to rely on any optical media for data backup.

I probably still have some blank optical media somewhere around here. Perhaps it has been discarded.

That said, it has been a long time since I've used optical media for anything. I don't even use a laptop that has any built-in capacity to do so, though my desktop systems all came with DVD burners. I've never used them.

I still own a lot of music CDs and movies (DVD and Blu-ray). I sometimes still drive a vehicle with no AUX port and a CD player, so I'll grab a CD or two to listen to while driving.

 

[MikeRocor]

I remember reading on another Forum years ago...just backup your files because it's easy to re-install the Distro.

Right... I keep the distro backed up separately and the apps backed up with it, but if I lost those and still had my data files, I'd be fine. I don't keep data in proprietary formats, so I'm not dependent on specific applications to access it.

I remember reading on another Forum years ago...just backup your files because it's easy to re-install the Distro.

This still holds true today, at least for me. OS and applications are replaceable even if (on MS Windows, for instance) it might be expensive, but your data often cannot be replaced at any cost.

It maybe easy to install the Distro but what about everything else.

Well, aside from any applications that didn't come with your distro, "everything else"... is your data?

---

Even now, I'm in the midst of a long and drawn out journey to recover any data I can from every hard drive I still have (yes, even PATA ones) in an attempt to recover data that I once had backed up to optical media. I know in my heart that it's a vain effort but, as I copy any recovered data to -two- nice new (huge) hard disks, at least I'll get rid of all those old HDs.

 

[MikeRocor]

I lost some very valuable data in the 90s. That left a lasting impression. I also like to be prepared for any crisis that may come up, because things are less of a crisis if you're prepared.

This. Exactly.

That said, it has been a long time since I've used optical media for anything. I don't even use a laptop that has any built-in capacity to do so, though my desktop systems all came with DVD burners. I've never used them.

Yeah, other than that boot cd I made a couple of months ago, I think it's been years since I used optical media.

I do have a couple of laptops and a couple of desktops/towers with optical drives and at least some of them actually work.

I still own a lot of music CDs and movies (DVD and Blu-ray).

I've never had a Blu-Ray player nor any such disks but I still have all of my music CDs, still in their jewel cases. I have, however, ripped my entire CD music collection to MP3 files and haven't touched any of the actual CDs in a very long time. That collection of MP3 files constitutes an enormous block of static data (that is well backed up) that occasionally gets stuff added but never deleted or changed.

My car, a 2015 Toyota, has a USB port from which it can play music, but it seems to have corrupted the data a bit - some tracks that used to play correctly now cut out part way through. It -would- be a simple matter to repair or replace the USB stick except for one little thing:

The car audio player only allows up to 256 tracks on the stick and it has a setting to "randomize" the play list but even when "randomizing", it absolutely insists on trying to categorize the tracks by title, artist, album or genre. To get it to -actually- randomize the play order I had to remove all of the metadata from the MP3 files. That works, but now I have a couple hundred tacks named track001, track002 etc. (It wouldn't have surprised me much if it then categorized them by length or something equally stupid but it doesn't look like that's the case.) What a PITA!

 

[The Duck]

I've got CDs and DVDs from the start of time that still work.

Only CDs and DVDs that I've had go bad or stopped working was because they were stepped on and broke.

Short of physically breaking them they are bullet proof leastwise mine are.

I've had hard drives and usb flash drives just crap out for no reason.

Never had any CD or DVD just stop working unless the CD / DVD drive fail.

 

[MikeRocor]

Short of physically breaking them they are bullet proof leastwise mine are.

I can only wish my experience was that positive,but snot. I have had the occasional CD that appeared to be scuffed to where I though it would never be readable and found it to read perfectly. Alas that has never been the case with one containing important data.

 

[KGIII]

I've never had a Blu-Ray player nor any such disks but I still have all of my music CDs, still in their jewel cases.

I have a nice screening room and recently upgraded it to Dolby Atmos. The sound is amazing.

Oddly, I don't watch that many movies. I own a ton of them and tell myself that I'll get to them someday. But, Dolby Atmos is absolutely amazing. Other people use it more than I do. The missus had some guests earlier today and they watched a movie or two.

 

[The Duck]

I just back up what I consider important files onto several different usb thumb drives.

I also back up certain important files on CDs or DVDs where it's there forever.

I'll use CDs and DVDs for family photos.

 

[KGIII]

CDs or DVDs where it's there foreve

I'd plan on 30ish years. They can last longer but 30 years is considered the minimum (assuming a good storage environment).

I don't know that off the top of my head. I looked earlier today because I couldn't remember.

 

[bob466]

Right... I keep the distro backed up separately and the apps backed up with it, but if I lost those and still had my data files, I'd be fine. I don't keep data in proprietary formats, so I'm not dependent on specific applications to access it.


This still holds true today, at least for me. OS and applications are replaceable even if (on MS Windows, for instance) it might be expensive, but your data often cannot be replaced at any cost.


Well, aside from any applications that didn't come with your distro, "everything else"... is your data?

I create an image of my System which includes everything not just data or apps...that means should disaster strike...nothing is lost...especially if the Drive fails...this could not be done in the old days.

I install the Distro...Customize it...Optimize the SSD...install Software...Browsers (4) and all add-ons + Websites...download Printer and Scanner Drivers and install both...then the Printer/Scanner...install Virtualbox and import my VMs...all this takes time...sometimes a few days.

Drive failure is one thing...what happens is the Distro won't Boot because you did something stupid or say you deleted your Home Folder or a power surge killed the Drive or many other things...should any of these happen...I can be up and running in about 20mins not days with nothing lost...I know what I'd choose.

 

[The Duck]

I'd plan on 30ish years. They can last longer but 30 years is considered the minimum (assuming a good storage environment).

I don't know that off the top of my head. I looked earlier today because I couldn't remember.

Hey 30 year's will work.

 

[MikeRocor]

Drive failure is one thing...what happens is the Distro won't Boot because you did something stupid or say you deleted your Home Folder or a power surge killed the Drive or many other things...should any of these happen...I can be up and running in about 20mins not days with nothing lost...I know what I'd choose.

Oh heck yeah! I'm paranoid about drive failures even though it's been decades since I had a catastrophic one.

While I never ever ever do anything stupid (y'know!), my home directory is more at risk than most folks' home directories because mine lives in RAM - so I have to "back it up" to persistent media before rebooting (because of that, I don't keep a lot of large static data in ~/ but keep a symlink to where that data actually resides). Then that homedir .tgz file, regularly gets backed up to external media. The directory with the "large static data" is automatically backed up (not "mirrored" per se, but same idea) to external media as well.

In the event of a truly colossal screwup, I can pull down the OS and applications from the internet and the data from backup and have the system up and running in a half hour, with the latest updates. If I restore the OS and applications from the backup device (which is a running system), it's faster but doesn't include any updates.

For a run-of-the-mill screwup, I can just reboot, 'cause the apps are all mounted from r/o packages.

---
FWIW, according to the firefox spell checker, the screwup in "truly colossal screwup" is aspelling error but the screwup in "run-of-the-mill screwup" is fine. And I thought I was an expert on screwups.

 

[Mike-BTU]

Oh heck yeah! I'm paranoid about drive failures even though it's been decades since I had a catastrophic one.

While I never ever ever do anything stupid (y'know!), my home directory is more at risk than most folks' home directories because mine lives in RAM - so I have to "back it up" to persistent media before rebooting (because of that, I don't keep a lot of large static data in ~/ but keep a symlink to where that data actually resides). Then that homedir .tgz file, regularly gets backed up to external media. The directory with the "large static data" is automatically backed up (not "mirrored" per se, but same idea) to external media as well.

In the event of a truly colossal screwup, I can pull down the OS and applications from the internet and the data from backup and have the system up and running in a half hour, with the latest updates. If I restore the OS and applications from the backup device (which is a running system), it's faster but doesn't include any updates.

For a run-of-the-mill screwup, I can just reboot, 'cause the apps are all mounted from r/o packages.

---
FWIW, according to the firefox spell checker, the screwup in "truly colossal screwup" is aspelling error but the screwup in "run-of-the-mill screwup" is fine. And I thought I was an expert on screwups.

In RAM? Mike, have you ever considered an uninterruptible power supply? Those are one thing that I consider indispensable!

Here's the one on my computer.

 

[bob466]

We all know what it was like running windoze...having to re-install at least once a year or more because that's windoze...that's why there are so many system backup tools for windoze.

When I switched full-time to Linux...all the Linux backup tools sucked because none backed up everything except clonezilla which is so slow and there's no guarantee the image it produces will actually work.

Of course windoze system backup tools don't work in Linux except macruim free which I used for a few years...then came Timeshift which you had to install because it wasn't part of the Distro as it is now.

Today we have excellent System backup tools like Foxclone...Redorescue and Timeshift and it doesn't take long to create an image which is much better than cloning one Drive to another.

Here are my System Images stored on my portable 1TB SSD...I can delete one older image as I create another...