Brickwizard
Well-Known Member
tell me about it, i spent days running various commands to fix what looked like a software glitch, only to find it was an intermittent fault on the screen
Help! Cannot install any version of Linux on 12 yr old machine
- Thread starter redwhiteandblue
- Start date
OP
redwhiteandblue
Member
Starting to think I have some duff hardware somewhere. It can't be this hard to get this working.
With the old 1280x1024 monitor, I still got it to crash, even in software rendering mode. But the motherboard didn't seem to like it anyway, it stopped booting from the USB and would stay on the BIOS splash screen for a long time, with that connected.
So I disconnected it and went back to the full HD monitor (Benq GL2460). Now logging in with software rendering mode, it will run in 1920x1080 - for a while. Longer than it will in normal mode. But eventually I got it to crash by downloading VLC player and playing a 720p video in it. In full screen it would play but not that smoothly - understandable because it's all on the CPU. I could hear the CPU fan spinning up so I resized the window, the fan went back down to normal and then.....crash.
Maybe I've got a duff memory stick which doesn't show up in the memory test and doesn't show up in Win7 because Win7 uses the memory in a different way to Linux? That's going to be fun diagnosing that.
With the old 1280x1024 monitor, I still got it to crash, even in software rendering mode. But the motherboard didn't seem to like it anyway, it stopped booting from the USB and would stay on the BIOS splash screen for a long time, with that connected.
So I disconnected it and went back to the full HD monitor (Benq GL2460). Now logging in with software rendering mode, it will run in 1920x1080 - for a while. Longer than it will in normal mode. But eventually I got it to crash by downloading VLC player and playing a 720p video in it. In full screen it would play but not that smoothly - understandable because it's all on the CPU. I could hear the CPU fan spinning up so I resized the window, the fan went back down to normal and then.....crash.
Maybe I've got a duff memory stick which doesn't show up in the memory test and doesn't show up in Win7 because Win7 uses the memory in a different way to Linux? That's going to be fun diagnosing that.
OP
redwhiteandblue
Member
I was right, I managed to get it to boot into normal mode (i.e. not software rendering) long enough to open the terminal, and now that line says "driver: i915 v: kernel bus-ID 00:02.0"
Brickwizard
Well-Known Member
thats good, now I will give you some terminal commands to run, they may help fix the problem, or not as the case may be, but worth trying [ open a terminal]
enter sudo apt update [and your password when asked]
then apt-get install --fix-missing [let it run may take a few mins] re-boot has it worked? if not try
apt --fix-broken install [let it run may take a few mins] re-boot has it worked?] if not we can try some more involved fixes
enter sudo apt update [and your password when asked]
then apt-get install --fix-missing [let it run may take a few mins] re-boot has it worked? if not try
apt --fix-broken install [let it run may take a few mins] re-boot has it worked?] if not we can try some more involved fixes
Brickwizard
Well-Known Member
Is this a desktop/tower pc? What make or is it a home build? You say it's old, have you serviced it since trying to resurrect it?
OP
redwhiteandblue
Member
Home build.
Intel i3 2120
Gigabyte GA-H67M-UD2H m/b
No graphics card
PSU has been replaced since the first build, it is now Thermaltake Litepower series 450W
Started out with 2x Kingston DDR3 memory dimms, added 2x more at a later date, can't remember exactly when.
Monitor is Benq GL2460 connected via HDMI, this is only a few years old.
The original HDD was WD Caviar 500Gb with Windows 7 on it. I still have that and can plug that in and boot Windows 7 and it will run all day long.
I am now using Crucial BX500 120Gb SSD to install Linux on.
I first did this four years ago and installed a minimal version of CentOS 7. But it's not very nice to use for anything serious - great for running servers on of course but not as a desktop OS.
I've eliminated the SSD as a problem because the same happens if I install as dual-boot on the HDD.
I'm about to eliminate the memory dimms, it is still crashing with either half of the two lots installed separately.
It's weird, 80% of the time it will crash at the login screen, but sometimes it lets me get in and do stuff but will crash at a random point. It doesn't seem to matter if it's in software rendering mode or not, I thought it did at first.
When you say "serviced" what do you mean exactly? I wasn't aware that it needs an oil change
OP
redwhiteandblue
Member
Right. The problem with any of this is, I cannot usually get into the desktop for long enough to open the terminal and run any of these commands before it crashes. Even if I do it's going to crash at some point during running them.
Can I get to the CLI before the desktop loads, is there a way to do that?
Brickwizard
Well-Known Member
that is exactly how my monitor was acting [new one arrived at lunchtime]
OK so I service mine at least once a year, this involves un plugging everything removing the cover using a soft hogs hair small paint brush to remove the build up of dust on the board the PSU vents and the air intake, then i blow the motherboard to clear off any dust [a can of compressed DRY air is ideal for this job, but it must say dry] then carefully i go round every wire/cable connection carefully, unplug and re- plug in, I then remove all the ram if the terminals look dirty I wipe them with a pure lint free cotton cloth and replace them, I do the same for any other expansion cards [graphics/sound/tv/etc]
These actions will clear any possibility of "dry Joints" causing problems.
I NEVER use any cleaning agents [acid/alcohol/switch cleaner, as these cause more damage than they fix]
I always make sure I am earthed to the chassis [you can use an earth strap, I usually keep one bare arm in contact with the chassis whist inside,
And always avoid moving the CPU heat sink/cooler as it is easy to damage the thermal bond paste
Brickwizard
Well-Known Member
erm..... wondering... screen may be going off but is the box still running...this is a long shot.
Make sure you are hard-wired to the router, force the Ubuntu terminal to open, quickly type sudo update-grub and enter if the screen goes out at this point just carry on wait 10 seconds put in your password and enter, then go and have a beer come back after 15 mins switch the box off wait 20 seconds and switch back on..
This is taking a flyer, but it may work if the box is still running
Make sure you are hard-wired to the router, force the Ubuntu terminal to open, quickly type sudo update-grub and enter if the screen goes out at this point just carry on wait 10 seconds put in your password and enter, then go and have a beer come back after 15 mins switch the box off wait 20 seconds and switch back on..
This is taking a flyer, but it may work if the box is still running
OP
redwhiteandblue
Member
No - the screen isn't going off, it's freezing, along with any response to keyboard or mouse. I can tell it's crashed by leaving it a couple of minutes and the clock in the bottom right doesn't update.
It's the kind of crash I would expect to get if there were a memory issue. I had this on an old laptop back along, I wanted to upgrade it with a new SSD and more memory, but the exact memory for it was hard to find. I found a Chinese seller on Ebay who had the right ones, so I bought two sticks giving me 8Gb. When I put them in and put the SSD in and went to install Windows 10 on it, it would crash just like this. Either during install or soon after boot. So I swapped memory sticks in and out and found that one was faulty. I ended up making do with one 4Gb stick and one of the old 2Gb ones and that laptop now runs fine. This problem I'm having feels now just like that.
Interestingly having done the same with the sticks in this one (4x2Gb Kingston but it's two pairs of slightly different model) I found that the m/b really really did not like the two newer ones in slots 2 and 4 on their own. Totally refused to boot like that, even though the manual says that should be okay. Now it has the two old sticks in 1 and 3 and it's sitting there happily playing Youtube videos in Cinnamon but I'm loathe to ask it to do anything else in case it crashes again!
Brickwizard
Well-Known Member
ram is getting more complicate, we now have EEC ram, non EEC ram and now low power ram none of which you can mix together,
you can mix ram of the same type but different speeds, all this does is make all the ram run at the motherboard max ram speed or the speed of the slowest stick of ram, there is no point [although some people still try] in putting in more ram than the motherboard and CPU can handle, depending on the machine it will only use its max or more often not work at all
you can mix ram of the same type but different speeds, all this does is make all the ram run at the motherboard max ram speed or the speed of the slowest stick of ram, there is no point [although some people still try] in putting in more ram than the motherboard and CPU can handle, depending on the machine it will only use its max or more often not work at all
OP
redwhiteandblue
Member
As I thought, with Youtube running I went onto the NAS and found a jpg to look at, opened it and.....crash.
Maybe I haven't tested Win7 thoroughly enough, maybe I can get that to crash too and then at least I'm narrowing it down to some kind of hardware problem. Most likely memory.
Maybe I haven't tested Win7 thoroughly enough, maybe I can get that to crash too and then at least I'm narrowing it down to some kind of hardware problem. Most likely memory.
Brickwizard
Well-Known Member
Well without having it on my bench, I am just about out of ideas,,, sorry
OP
redwhiteandblue
Member
Thanks for trying to help. If I were more experienced with Linux I'd have suspected a hardware problem straight away, but I now think that's what it has to be. Something with memory somehow since obviously a 1920x1080 display requires more video memory and without a graphics card it has to use a certain amount of the main RAM.
Brickwizard
Well-Known Member
with intel chip on chip graphics, that's a measly 300mb
OP
redwhiteandblue
Member
There's a bit of a pattern to this now. When logging in with "default" mode (hardware acceleration) it will crash within about the first two seconds. Logging in with "software rendering" mode, it lets me log in and I can do certain stuff like open FF and listen to videos on Youtube, but if I try to do something else instead, or at the same time, like open a jpg file or something, it crashes.
But that's with either pair of memory dimms installed in either pair of slots. Have I maybe got two faulty dimms, one in each pair? I will try each one one at a time now. Well I wasn't going to do anything else with my Saturday.
But that's with either pair of memory dimms installed in either pair of slots. Have I maybe got two faulty dimms, one in each pair? I will try each one one at a time now. Well I wasn't going to do anything else with my Saturday.
redwhiteandblue wrote:
If you want to test memory, install memtest86+ and run it when next booting ... it should appear as an option at the boot menu.
In a situation like this, one needs to check that ALL the relevant software is installed.
To boot to a text prompt you press e when the grub menu appears. It brings up a configuration text, so you navigate down to the linux line (using arrow keys if it's not on screen), add 3 after a space to that linux line and press cntl+x to boot. It should boot to a prompt.
If you want to test memory, install memtest86+ and run it when next booting ... it should appear as an option at the boot menu.
In a situation like this, one needs to check that ALL the relevant software is installed.
OP
redwhiteandblue
Member
Memtest86 is on the boot menu on the USB stick, that's what I used previously and it went all the way through to 100%
OP
redwhiteandblue
Member
I'm about ready to give up on this.
There is nothing wrong with the hardware. I tried each memory stick in turn, all have the same result. Linux will either crash at the login screen, or will crash once logged in if I do something like try to open a file.
But Windows 7 currently has three tabs open in FF, one playing a Youtube video, whilst at the same time playing an mp4 in VLC from the local drive, whilst at the same time editing a large .png in Photoshop.... it is not going to crash.
I'm as stumped as I was when I started. Linux just does not run on this hardware.
There is nothing wrong with the hardware. I tried each memory stick in turn, all have the same result. Linux will either crash at the login screen, or will crash once logged in if I do something like try to open a file.
But Windows 7 currently has three tabs open in FF, one playing a Youtube video, whilst at the same time playing an mp4 in VLC from the local drive, whilst at the same time editing a large .png in Photoshop.... it is not going to crash.
I'm as stumped as I was when I started. Linux just does not run on this hardware.
Condobloke
Well-Known Member
How long did memtest run for ?
