Do not use Ubuntu !!!

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For the following reasons don't install or recommend Ubuntu.

1. Development of Ubuntu is led by Canonical, Ltd. a UK-based "trading" company

which generates revenue through the sale of "technical support" and "services."
As with Red Hat, Suse, etc... also - nothing wrong with that.

2. By installing users agree to allow Ubuntu's parent company Canonical to collect user search data and IP addresses and to disclose this information to third parties including Facebook, Twitter, BBC and Amazon.
You can remove that shit, but yes it's bad news.... you should have provided a link though...

3. The adwares and spywares introduced in Ubuntu violates user's privacy and is one of the rare occasions in which a free software developer persists in keeping a malicious feature in its version of a program.
As above.

4. Whenever user searches the local files for a string using Ubuntu desktop, Ubuntu sends that string to one of Canonical's servers.
As above.

5. Ubuntu has received widespread objection from the open source community for violating free system distribution guidelines..
Yes it violates DFSG. Links/sources?

6. Canonical disgruntled upstream open source developers by introducing Mir, their own display server not derived from X11 or Wayland.

7. Ubuntu's policy prohibits commercial redistribution of exact copies of Ubuntu, denying the baseline freedom.
Yes... but you forgot the CLA...

8. Ubuntu is basically Debian with extra "cool" look and is not binary compatible with Red Hat Enterprise Linux and CentOS which are used for most scientific development.
Irrelevant nonsense.

Didn't read - as you included only wikipedia and moronix. You should provide citations for each claim and/or go back and do some real research - otherwise you don't really have a case and will be met only with derision...

Nope... I said "the most ignorant of windows and mac users". Which does not equate to all windows and mac users. It refers to a subset of people...

Then why do you not address the rest of Windows and Mac users? That is what I am referring to and that is the demographic that can be brought in through Ubuntu and converted to GNU/Linux yet you only mention the ignorant so what am I supposed to assume?

Not me... was this point even being contended? You seem to care though...
This was the point you were making. There is no point in trying to convert those people so let them happily use Ubuntu this still doesn't negate the fact that Ubuntu also brings in those new or ignorant to Linux but that are eager to learn and explore GNU/Linux offerings. There is no GNU/Linux vs Ubuntu to a new user. Linux is just Linux and they haven't signed a 3-year Ubuntu contract.

Nope... you pulled "90+%" out of thin air and you accused someone of hating canonical for no good reason. And where did you get the "2 hour seminar" thing from?
I'm sure he was very offended of being "accused" of hating Canonical. Of course I pulled 90+% out of thin air, and I'm not for turning Linux into the new Windows, but I am against the stifling of change for the same reason. There should be room for both the customizing power user and the casual "just want it to work" user within the Linux community. I just don't understand what the problem is bringing in old Windows or Mac users through Ubuntu. A user sees Ubuntu as Linux no matter what you and I see it as, and for some users that will open the door to other versions of "Linux" and eventually to more niche distros.

The "2 hour seminar thing" came from this:
understanding what free and open source software is and what it is about (the philosophy behind it) should be a prerequisite of using Linux and BSD.

Supposing you're right on that last point though: Nothing wrong with servers and niche audiences...

In fact GNU/Linux is already a niche thing. Go and ask the average person on the street what GNU/Linux is and I guarantee you that "90+%" won't have heard of it. In fact "90+%" won't have heard about 'buntu either... there are people better qualified and with higher intellect than you or I who have not heard of Linux and have no desire to hear about it.

Again, we've established that we don't care about those people. Linux, GNU or otherwise, is not nearly as "niche" as it was even 5 years ago and that will continue to change as users look for alternatives to the increasingly restrictive versions of Windows. These are the people we want. People who care about how their computer runs and want to learn more, but are only familiar with Windows and have never tried Linux. Ubuntu offers an easy, straightforward way to download and try a "version" of Linux and helps the user ease into one of the first big hurdles of Linux, installing the OS.

I first used Ubuntu and only stayed with it for a few months before I was switching to other distros that got progressively more and more "hands on." There seems to be this idea that once a Windows user makes the switch they will only stay with Ubuntu while I see that as a small minority. It took me all of 1-2 days after installing Ubuntu to learn that there were tons of other distros out there to try and any bad habits acquired from Ubuntu (which are minor with the average user interacting less at the command-line and more with GUI programs the Windows habits are probably much more detrimental) are squashed by the communities of these other distros fairly quickly.

GNU/Linux is a niche OS and trying to dumb things down to appeal to the masses is the wrong way to go and always has been. If GNU/Linux was to become a perfect OS for the average person and a competitor to windows and apple in 5 years time - it would have sold out most of it's principles to get there and would no longer be GNU/Linux. Canonical ltd's mission objective just seems to be to create another proprietary OS - via the back door - some people are very laissez-faire about this, but they obviously have no concept of what they are sacrificing - only to get back to where they started.

When did I ever mention "dumbing down" GNU/Linux? The fact is Canonical seems to want to differentiate themselves from GNU/Linux, and they have already dumbed down their OS. Instead of fighting against it to no effect, I'm saying embrace it as a way to still potentially bring in GNU/Linux users, at least while Ubuntu is still referred to as "Linux," without affecting actual GNU/Linux development. I'd love to be able to play more games on my Linux computer without having to go through a VM, does that mean I want to "dumb down" the product? I don't think so. But I'd love to see more functionality. No good comes out of turning our noses at people interested in learning and possibly developing for Linux in the future.

I'm not going to keep fueling this fire as obviously no one's opinion is going to change so this will be my last post. I just think stepping back and looking at the "damage" Canonical has done in comparison with Windows or Mac is minimal at best and still offers benefits to the GNU/Linux community.
The Original Post was made to several Forums on 29th May.

As far as I know the Original Poster has never returned to the scene.

Are we going to see interminable argument here without any meaningful outcome?

There are some people who support Ubuntu. There are some people who condemn it. Some argue black, some argue white. Few argue shades of grey.

What is the end position here? Is there one? If not, people must agree to differ...
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