Completing a task in Linux is always a small miracle

[Terminal Velocity]

Recently I had to participate in some Zoom meetings in order to get some money from EU (renewable energy, they pay us to learn because yeah) and I have to admit that Linux managed very well without any problems and I was very excited about that achievement. Other people in the class with 0 understanding of computers were wondering why I was so worry ''of course it will work', why wouldn't it'' ... Windows and Android users take those things for granted, while Linux users appreciate it very much when it is working because the rule is that it aint gonna work

Music production is another thing that I have abandoned ever since moved to Linux, I don't want to think about what it takes to make a modern sound card to work in Linux, if it works at all, and what about latency... Forget about it

 

[AlphaObeisance]

I don't really have anything constructive to add to this complaint. So I'ma just leave this here.

Annnnnnnnnnd I'll leave this here

 

[Terminal Velocity]

Ardour is the GIMP of the DAW world, it simply needs to die, I try to edit (master) the audio of a video with it for ages, I simply can't or more accurately it simply can't

 

[Trenix25]

Recently I had to participate in some Zoom meetings in order to get some money from EU (renewable energy, they pay us to learn because yeah) and I have to admit that Linux managed very well without any problems and I was very excited about that achievement. Other people in the class with 0 understanding of computers were wondering why I was so worry ''of course it will work', why wouldn't it'' ... Windows and Android users take those things for granted, while Linux users appreciate it very much when it is working because the rule is that it aint gonna work

Music production is another thing that I have abandoned ever since moved to Linux, I don't want to think about what it takes to make a modern sound card to work in Linux, if it works at all, and what about latency... Forget about it

I certainly feel your pain when it comes to webcams. I even offered to help Logitech write a kernel driver for theirs so it could be compatible with Linux, but no luck. They weren't interested. I think some companies just don't want their stuff to work with Linux which is sad. I use pulseaudio and it worked right away with my new "used" computer. It's used, but new for me. I really had to search to find a wifi dongle that would work with Linux. I bought at least a couple different ones that didn't, but hey "it works with Windows." I wonder if some companies do that on purpose. I just lost my stock trading account because they wanted me to install their app that only works on Mac and Windows. They didn't have anything to use on a Linux desktop.

Signed,

Matthew Campbell

 

[BigBadBeef]

Recently I had to participate in some Zoom meetings in order to get some money from EU (renewable energy, they pay us to learn because yeah) and I have to admit that Linux managed very well without any problems and I was very excited about that achievement. Other people in the class with 0 understanding of computers were wondering why I was so worry ''of course it will work', why wouldn't it'' ... Windows and Android users take those things for granted, while Linux users appreciate it very much when it is working because the rule is that it aint gonna work

Music production is another thing that I have abandoned ever since moved to Linux, I don't want to think about what it takes to make a modern sound card to work in Linux, if it works at all, and what about latency... Forget about it

You're just like my cousin - gets his fingers into everything, but doesn't actually roll up his sleeves and get going.

• First he wanted to make wind power out of plastic pipes and HDD magnets - those now hold up his fridge papers.
• Then he applied for college to try and major in philosophy - didn't even start attending lectures.
• Then he wanted to built greenhouses out of geodesic domes for customers - the closest he got to them was by cutting a few sticks that he now uses to scratch his back with.
• Then he bought a 3D printer - as far as he got for making money with it was a grand total of 2 prototypes someone hired him to do.
• Attended a national qualification program as CNC operator
• Saw that a lot money could be made by woodturning lamp shades.

et cetera... you get the point.

For 12 years he went on with that. "Just start" I told him repeatedly. "Get going, put in the time, practice and a time will come when you're ready to start selling". It was same o'le bs every time I came to hang out with him - always a grand new idea that would make him rich lol.

5 years ago he got married and had his first kid. Best thing to ever happen to him. Sobered him up at least to the point that he stopped having those wild dreams that never got past the snoozing stage. The interesting part? some of these actually could make him a lot of money if only he just got to working on them.

Don't ask me why, but when I saw your post, the first thought that came to my mind was my cousin and his grand dreams.

 

[MikeWalsh]

I certainly feel your pain when it comes to webcams. I even offered to help Logitech write a kernel driver for theirs so it could be compatible with Linux, but no luck. They weren't interested. I think some companies just don't want their stuff to work with Linux which is sad.

@Trenix25 :-

Hm. I'm curious, Matt; just which Logitech cam are we talking about here?

I've been using a c920 HD 'Pro' for 5-6 yrs now. Best webcam ever; beats the pants off all the cheap'n'cheerful ones I'd tried up until then. I'd wanted one for several years, but it was always priced out of my reach.....until the Black Friday sale in 2018, when our local PCWorld were selling them off at around 35% of MRP, just to make way for the hyper-expensive Brio range (which really aren't anything special when it comes down to it)! I didn't just grab one, I grabbed 2 while I was at it.....

I'd done my research, y'see; I have done for years, before investing in hardware to use under Linux. I've never been seduced into impulse buys by a lick of glitter and a dab of shiny chrome; I don't care HOW drab something looks.....because I'm more interested in how well it performs its intended function.

As always, it all boils down to the chipsets; those for the Logitech c920, c615, c525 and the c270 'cams are all supported by the in-kernel UVC (USB Video Class) driver module.....along with quite a chunk of their older models, too. Now; they only advertise compatibility with Windows & macOS, natch.....and no mention is made of the UVC compatibilty at all.

UVC has been in the kernel since the late 2-series. A long time, in other words.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​

This site lists compatibility for webcams with the UVC driver, along with various issues that may be encountered.....and asking around on various other fora I frequent, I gathered that the c920 should be literally pNp under Linux. That's why I took a gamble and bought 2; one for the HP desktop rig, and one for the older Dell lappie. As it turned out, the gamble paid off.....and despite the c920 being an 'old' design - dating back to circa 2012 - the fact that it's STILL the best-selling webcam the world over shows just how right Logitech got it all those years ago.

And this is one of the best in-depth reviews I've ever seen for it:-

Logitech C920 Webcam review

The original Jack-Of-All-Trades

www.techradar.com

Research often turns up surprising info.....when you least expect it.


Mike.

 

[MikeRocor]

@Trenix25 :-

Hm. I'm curious, Matt; just which Logitech cam are we talking about here?

I've been using a c920 HD 'Pro' for 5-6 yrs now. Best webcam ever; beats the pants off all the cheap'n'cheerful ones I'd tried up until then. I'd wanted one for several years, but it was always priced out of my reach.....until the Black Friday sale in 2018, when our local PCWorld were selling them off at around 35% of MRP, just to make way for the hyper-expensive Brio range (which really aren't anything special when it comes down to it)! I didn't just grab one, I grabbed 2 while I was at it.....

I'd done my research, y'see; I have done for years, before investing in hardware to use under Linux. I've never been seduced into impulse buys by a lick of glitter and a dab of shiny chrome; I don't care HOW drab something looks.....because I'm more interested in how well it performs its intended function.

As always, it all boils down to the chipsets; those for the Logitech c920, c615, c525 and the c270 'cams are all supported by the in-kernel UVC (USB Video Class) driver module.....along with quite a chunk of their older models, too. Now; they only advertise compatibility with Windows & macOS, natch.....and no mention is made of the UVC compatibilty at all.

UVC has been in the kernel since the late 2-series. A long time, in other words.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​

This site lists compatibility for webcams with the UVC driver, along with various issues that may be encountered.....and asking around on various other fora I frequent, I gathered that the c920 should be literally pNp under Linux. That's why I took a gamble and bought 2; one for the HP desktop rig, and one for the older Dell lappie. As it turned out, the gamble paid off.....and despite the c920 being an 'old' design - dating back to circa 2012 - the fact that it's STILL the best-selling webcam the world over shows just how right Logitech got it all those years ago.

And this is one of the best in-depth reviews I've ever seen for it:-

Logitech C920 Webcam review

The original Jack-Of-All-Trades

www.techradar.com

Research often turns up surprising info.....when you least expect it.


Mike.

I picked up a C920 in a box of accessories with a PC that a friend asked me to dispose of. I was hardly using it so I didn't complain when the wife appropriated it for use with her Windows PC. I later bought a slightly lower spec'd model logitech camera at GoodWill for $5.00 and never had any difficulty with it either - still using that one on the rare occasions when I do a zoom call or whatever.

 

[Terminal Velocity]

You're just like my cousin - gets his fingers into everything, but doesn't actually roll up his sleeves and get going.

• First he wanted to make wind power out of plastic pipes and HDD magnets - those now hold up his fridge papers.
• Then he applied for college to try and major in philosophy - didn't even start attending lectures.
• Then he wanted to built greenhouses out of geodesic domes for customers - the closest he got to them was by cutting a few sticks that he now uses to scratch his back with.
• Then he bought a 3D printer - as far as he got for making money with it was a grand total of 2 prototypes someone hired him to do.
• Attended a national qualification program as CNC operator
• Saw that a lot money could be made by woodturning lamp shades.

et cetera... you get the point.

For 12 years he went on with that. "Just start" I told him repeatedly. "Get going, put in the time, practice and a time will come when you're ready to start selling". It was same o'le bs every time I came to hang out with him - always a grand new idea that would make him rich lol.

5 years ago he got married and had his first kid. Best thing to ever happen to him. Sobered him up at least to the point that he stopped having those wild dreams that never got past the snoozing stage. The interesting part? some of these actually could make him a lot of money if only he just got to working on them.

Don't ask me why, but when I saw your post, the first thought that came to my mind was my cousin and his grand dreams.

I made an account at the Ardour community forum, I made my first topic ''how to start with it'' and I got my first guidance and my first results on sound mastering. Just to let you know that I get my hands dirty when I have to.

I'm not gonna be a famous composer, I know that much, for me music is a cross that you bear for life without ever getting somewhere, just going for its sake

I will explore how far can I go with Ardour when I finish with the renewables. Your cousin sounds very unlike me

 

[MikeWalsh]

@Terminal Velocity :-

Aye, you're right about Windows/MacOS users taking such things for granted.....and especially when you say they don't understand why you get so excited when something DOES work under Linux.

Generally speaking, though, cross-platform interoperability is steadily improving, month on month......and so many apps/projects offer webapps (online versions) of their "product". I tend to use many of these; with my current resources - 32GB RAM, 5+ TB of storage - I can have one main browser open for my usual sites, plus 2 or 3 others running simultaneously to give me access to various webapps all running in their own separate desktop windows. This machine shrugs it off without even thinking about it.....admittedly, it's the first computer I've had where this has been a realistic proposition, and running so much stuff under Puppy as self-contained portables means that no two apps will ever interfere with each other.

I have half-a-dozen video chat webapps set-up as "desktop clients", along with their own Menu entries......including Google's 'Meet', Skype - for family that won't even look at anything else! - Teams & Zoom. Some folks/organizations will insist upon a particular platform; others, upon a totally different one. They all get used in their turn, for various different purposes.

There's an online way of doing almost anything these days.


Mike.

 

[f33dm3bits]

I've been using a c920 HD 'Pro' for 5-6 yrs now.

I use that same one and before that I had another Logitech, has always worked without issues. I can't remember which webcams I had before corona but I do remember doing video calls in the time before corona and my webcam always just working.

have to admit that Linux managed very well without any problems and I was very excited about that achievement. Other people in the class with 0 understanding of computers were wondering why I was so worry ''of course it will work', why wouldn't it'' ... Windows and Android users take those things for granted, while Linux users appreciate it very much when it is working because the rule is that it aint gonna work

In my beginning years of Linux I didn't know if something was going to work but that's around 15 years ago. Now days I don't stress out about anything working in Linux because I know from experience that everything has gone fine in the last years, probably since around 2018 when gaming on Linux became much better and I don't play games with kernel level anti-cheat software. Even if I were to run into something now days I know that I can probably get it to work, but I haven't had the need to actually get something to work because it has always just worked, the only time I remember something breaking is when I was running Arch and some updated package had broken something but that's another story since that's bound to more likely happen on a rolling release distribution and it didn't even happen that often with Arch.

 

[AlphaObeisance]

I use that same one and before that I had another Logitech, has always worked without issue. I can't remember which webcams I had before corona but I do remember doing video calls in the time before corona and my webcam always just working.


In my beginning years of Linux I didn't know if something was going to work but that's around 15 years ago. Now days I don't stress out about anything working in Linux because I know from experience that everything has gone fine in the last years, probably since around 2018 when gaming on Linux became much better and I don't play games with kernel level anti-cheat software. Even if I were to run into something now days I know that I can probably get it to work, but I haven't had the need to actually get something to work because it has always just worked, the only time I remember something breaking is when I was running Arch and some updated package had broken something but that's another story since that's bound to more likely happen on a rolling release distribution and it didn't even happen that often with Arch.

I'm just here to +1 the C920x Pro as that's what I've used for some time now and it "just works", I've never had to do anything with it and it has never failed me.

I've actually had a lot of luck with peripherals in general. I've got a nice set of Razer Headphones I got some time ago and I've had everything from Redragon, Razer, Corsair keyboards and mice and they've all just worked for me as well. There's even some pretty cool software out there for managing the RGB if you're into that sort of thing.

As for gaming. I hadn't had a game fail to launch on Linux in shoot, 2-3 years, until recently when I bought the C&C remastered edition of the entire series. I tried to launch Red Alert 3 and it has given me some grief. But aside of that, every single "modern" title I've gone to play has fired right up for me. I think Forza Horizon 5 gives me issues occasionally (really only after a fresh install) but once I track down the fix I'd found at one point or another, it works without issue after that. It's no doubt a config issue on my part because the folks at Manjaro seem to always have what I seem to always forget; as many of these issues don't happen when I use Manjaro. Valve has done and continues to do some incredible work.

Add in that if I recall, Sony has provided kernel level support for their peripherals, at least the Dual Sense 5 if I recall. I've never had an issue not just using the controllers, but I've used up to 4 of them simultaneously with impressive results.

You're right about the Arch, and that's what a lot of people forget (and love to complain about) is that if you're running Arch, it's only a matter of time before something gets overlooked and sent down stream that is going to affect you. The beauty of it is that it's generally resolved pretty quickly (if you're not able to resolve it yourself) and the community is really good about making global announcements if it's something that needs immediate attention that can't be addressed on a global scale as fast can be done by the individual. We love to break stuff round 'hur namsayun lol! In fact, idk why yet (focus is elsewhere) but one of my latest updates made my pipewire do something stupid and I was getting some odd random (even if sound wasnt playing lol) pop, crackle and/or static and then it would just up and stop.

Anyway, I digress.

 

[Trenix25]

@Trenix25 :-

Hm. I'm curious, Matt; just which Logitech cam are we talking about here?

I've been using a c920 HD 'Pro' for 5-6 yrs now. Best webcam ever; beats the pants off all the cheap'n'cheerful ones I'd tried up until then. I'd wanted one for several years, but it was always priced out of my reach.....until the Black Friday sale in 2018, when our local PCWorld were selling them off at around 35% of MRP, just to make way for the hyper-expensive Brio range (which really aren't anything special when it comes down to it)! I didn't just grab one, I grabbed 2 while I was at it.....

I'd done my research, y'see; I have done for years, before investing in hardware to use under Linux. I've never been seduced into impulse buys by a lick of glitter and a dab of shiny chrome; I don't care HOW drab something looks.....because I'm more interested in how well it performs its intended function.

As always, it all boils down to the chipsets; those for the Logitech c920, c615, c525 and the c270 'cams are all supported by the in-kernel UVC (USB Video Class) driver module.....along with quite a chunk of their older models, too. Now; they only advertise compatibility with Windows & macOS, natch.....and no mention is made of the UVC compatibilty at all.

UVC has been in the kernel since the late 2-series. A long time, in other words.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​

This site lists compatibility for webcams with the UVC driver, along with various issues that may be encountered.....and asking around on various other fora I frequent, I gathered that the c920 should be literally pNp under Linux. That's why I took a gamble and bought 2; one for the HP desktop rig, and one for the older Dell lappie. As it turned out, the gamble paid off.....and despite the c920 being an 'old' design - dating back to circa 2012 - the fact that it's STILL the best-selling webcam the world over shows just how right Logitech got it all those years ago.

And this is one of the best in-depth reviews I've ever seen for it:-

Logitech C920 Webcam review

The original Jack-Of-All-Trades

www.techradar.com

Research often turns up surprising info.....when you least expect it.


Mike.

I'll have to look into those. I looked at a number of web cams on Amazon, but couldn't find one that specifically said it was compatible with Linux. I think I was looking around 2020 or 2021. I have kept note of your post for future reference. Thank you for this information. Perhaps they simply don't want people to use Linux.

Signed,

Matthew Campbell

 

[MikeWalsh]

@Trenix25 :-

I looked at a number of web cams on Amazon, but couldn't find one that specifically said it was compatible with Linux.

Heh. Yeah; see, that's what you DON'T do. I know it's counter-intuitive, but after you've been scouting around for specific peripherals for a while - and you want 'em to work under Linux - you learn to start applying "lateral thinking".

You know you're rarely going to find anything that outright SAYS it's for Linux, so you approach the issue sideways; are there any specific protocols used by this class of peripheral? Does the kernel support that? Now, do a bit of research into this.......it's frequently surprising what floats to the top. The info is almost always out there somewhere online; invariably someone else has had the exact same issue as you. Ya just gotta dig a bit.....and I've always enjoyed researching stuff.

It's what led me to the UVC driver website originally, and made me realise just how many years that module has been in the kernel. And then the listings had the exact info I wanted, printed there in black & white.

That was ALL I needed.

(BTW; it's got nothing to do with not wanting people to use Linux. It DOES have everything to do with the perceived need to acquire Windows certification from Microsoft, since it's the most commonly-used platform.....along with the desire to maintain that certification, 'cos it bolsters credibility & reputation. Linux simply doesn't have a big enough market share for them to bother about it......and the fact that all Windows users are singing from the exact same hymnsheet, whereas Linux users run an almost infinite combination of modified kernels, different collections of firmware, different DEs, file-managers, etc, etc.....

This is the real reason most major hardware manufacturers can't be arsed with Linux support. It's too much like hard work......because there's SO many variables, and they cannot guarantee that any piece of software, be it drivers or whatever, will work the same for EVERY Linux user out there.)


Mike.

 

[AlphaObeisance]

I'll have to look into those. I looked at a number of web cams on Amazon, but couldn't find one that specifically said it was compatible with Linux. I think I was looking around 2020 or 2021. I have kept note of your post for future reference. Thank you for this information. Perhaps they simply don't want people to use Linux.

Signed,

Matthew Campbell

Here you go brochacho that's what I've been using for a few years now and I've never had an issue. 100% plug and play.

 

[Trenix25]

@Trenix25 :-



Heh. Yeah; see, that's what you DON'T do. I know it's counter-intuitive, but after you've been scouting around for specific peripherals for a while - and you want 'em to work under Linux - you learn to start applying "lateral thinking".

You know you're rarely going to find anything that outright SAYS it's for Linux, so you approach the issue sideways; are there any specific protocols used by this class of peripheral? Does the kernel support that? Now, do a bit of research into this.......it's frequently surprising what floats to the top. The info is almost always out there somewhere online; invariably someone else has had the exact same issue as you. Ya just gotta dig a bit.....and I've always enjoyed researching stuff.

It's what led me to the UVC driver website originally, and made me realise just how many years that module has been in the kernel. And then the listings had the exact info I wanted, printed there in black & white.

That was ALL I needed.

(BTW; it's got nothing to do with not wanting people to use Linux. It DOES have everything to do with the perceived need to acquire Windows certification from Microsoft, since it's the most commonly-used platform.....along with the desire to maintain that certification, 'cos it bolsters credibility & reputation. Linux simply doesn't have a big enough market share for them to bother about it......and the fact that all Windows users are singing from the exact same hymnsheet, whereas Linux users run an almost infinite combination of modified kernels, different collections of firmware, different DEs, file-managers, etc, etc.....

This is the real reason most major hardware manufacturers can't be arsed with Linux support. It's too much like hard work......because there's SO many variables, and they cannot guarantee that any piece of software, be it drivers or whatever, will work the same for EVERY Linux user out there.)


Mike.

I went shopping for a good wifi dongle for Linux and had a run of bad luck. I tried like two different ones that didn't say they were compatible with Linux and sure enough, they weren't. I finally found Brostrend and that one did say it was. They went out of their way to make one that was. They have support too. Obviously most companies just aren't like that. This kind of experience made me apprehensive to buy products that didn't say they worked with Linux. I even tried talking to Logitech on the phone and it sounded like it wouldn't work with Linux. Perhaps they just don't know Linux very well. Clearly you have done your homework and I'm thankful that you have. Your posts in this thread have no doubt helped a lot of the users of this platform. Unfortunately I just haven't dug as deeply as you have when looking for compatibility and protocols. I know I don't know everything there is to know and none of us here do. We each have our own bits of knowledge and we share them with others to help one another. That's what makes this a nice and helpful platform.

Signed,

Matthew Campbell

 

[MikeWalsh]

Clearly you have done your homework and I'm thankful that you have.

Heh. Oh, it's a habit I got into when I was shopping around for my first decent hifi system, back in the mid-80s. It's kinda stuck with me ever since; I've always taken the view that if I'm going to do something, I'd rather do it ONCE, and do it properly the first time around......so I don't need to go back and re-do it again.

And you're absolutely right; we all have expertise in various different fields. Nobody knows it all - though some come close to achieving this! - and so by pooling our knowledge, and helping each other out, it makes us stronger as a community. It definitely makes it a nicer place to be.

Me, I just like helping others. Always have.


Mike.

 

[Vimmer]

Recently I had to participate in some Zoom meetings in order to get some money from EU (renewable energy, they pay us to learn because yeah) and I have to admit that Linux managed very well without any problems and I was very excited about that achievement. Other people in the class with 0 understanding of computers were wondering why I was so worry ''of course it will work', why wouldn't it'' ... Windows and Android users take those things for granted, while Linux users appreciate it very much when it is working because the rule is that it aint gonna work

Music production is another thing that I have abandoned ever since moved to Linux, I don't want to think about what it takes to make a modern sound card to work in Linux, if it works at all, and what about latency... Forget about it

it's because we're so manly! We don't shy away from challenges and achievements, we are one.

(i'm just joking around, plz don't ban me)

but you know, with windows, you get basic things to work immediately, initially...then, your computer gradually gets slower and you start running virus scans and think about reformatting. Actually, as of recently, things on Windows 11 often don't work as you'd expect but this is probably much less often with very commonly used programs.

Music production is another thing that I have abandoned ever since moved to Linux, I don't want to think about what it takes to make a modern sound card to work in Linux, if it works at all, and what about latency... Forget about it

You don't need a sound card, just an audio interface, many of which are designed to work without any drivers. If you have strong desires to do audio again, send me a PM as i have discovered many things that you don't easily find with a google search.

 

[Trenix25]

I believe the sound card hardware in built in to the motherboard on more modern computers these days, like so many other things.

Signed,

Matthew Campbell

 

[Terminal Velocity]

You don't need a sound card, just an audio interface, many of which are designed to work without any drivers. If you have strong desires to do audio again, send me a PM as i have discovered many things that you don't easily find with a google search.

Sure I send you a PM but wouldn't be better to share your knowledge with everyone in an appropriately titled thread? Should I make a thread?

 

[rado84]

Recently I had to participate in some Zoom meetings in order to get some money from EU (renewable energy, they pay us to learn because yeah) and I have to admit that Linux managed very well without any problems and I was very excited about that achievement. Other people in the class with 0 understanding of computers were wondering why I was so worry ''of course it will work', why wouldn't it'' ... Windows and Android users take those things for granted, while Linux users appreciate it very much when it is working because the rule is that it aint gonna work

Music production is another thing that I have abandoned ever since moved to Linux, I don't want to think about what it takes to make a modern sound card to work in Linux, if it works at all, and what about latency... Forget about it

You got it all messed up here. The topic title should be "Completing a task in Windows is always a small miracle" because it is. For instance, if you wanna add another keyboard layout in your own language, you gotta dig deep into the Settings metro menu like an id-iot, there are always at least 3 layouts that you didn't add and you didn't ask to be added, there's always at least one that you're not allowed to remove, one you're not allowed to add just because Microsh*t decided so. By the time you figure it out and manage to add the KB layout you want and remove those that you don't want, you've forgotten what you needed the layout for and you don't feel like doing it anymore.

Whereas with Linux, you just visit "Settings", "Keyboard", add ONLY the layout you want and that's it - a job for 10 to 15 seconds. And there are NEVER any additional layouts you didn't ask for - only those you wanted to add.