Best budget machine.

as a small business I will suggest using local small business. Find a good optiplex, or lattitude from dell but not dimension or any of the consumer lines. Same for HP the elitebook is nice with linux.
You will find most systems will work with linux so just a matter of what you like. I mentioned the ones we sell in shop that work well and that I personally used also.
 


hi guys,
im looking for a newer laptop .. mine is starting to lag behind.

I personally wouldnt recommend an i9/i7 laptop unless you've got applications that specifically need that power - higher power cpu is just going to jack up the price, as will a discrete gpu, I got a refurbished t470 a bit over a year ago and have had zero issues with it and it was around $150 (via amazon).

if you want to stick with Dell, there's a number of options on https://www.dellrefurbished.com - though honestly even then some of those prices make me wonder... I guess they've got some overhead.
 
I'd never pay Dell prices for Dell refurbs. Amazon, eBay, or (my personal favorite) NewEgg all have solid prices on hardware that will work just fine.
 
for ex.
here is a load avg, after i clicked on a link from an email.
but it did recover quickly..
sometimes it doesnt.. as i was mentioning.

top - 23:39:20 up 8:10, 1 user, load average: 4.33, 1.71, 0.93
Tasks: 321 total, 4 running, 315 sleeping, 0 stopped, 2 zombie
%Cpu(s): 47.8 us, 34.8 sy, 0.0 ni, 17.4 id, 0.0 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, 0.0 st
MiB Mem : 7818.2 total, 2558.3 free, 3833.4 used, 2179.4 buff/cache
MiB Swap: 2048.0 total, 1971.2 free, 76.8 used. 3984.8 avail Mem

PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND
65806 user+ 20 0 3378892 556080 212020 R 136.4 6.9 0:36.52 firefox+
67079 user+ 20 0 2416428 48012 35292 R 81.8 0.6 0:00.11 Isolate+
67085 user+ 20 0 2407500 37632 27520 R 72.7 0.5 0:00.08 Web Con+
66835 user+ 20 0 2419940 76368 62208 S 18.2 1.0 0:00.17 Isolate+
66839 user+ 20 0 2434996 84004 67324 S 18.2 1.0 0:00.19 Isolate+
1567 rtkit 21 1 22940 3200 3072 S 9.1 0.0 0:01.28 rtkit-d+
66032 user+ 20 0 2627800 227564 95228 S 9.1 2.8 0:07.77 Isolate+
66146 user+ 20 0 2482544 94984 62504 S 9.1 1.2 0:02.40 Isolate+
66696 user+ 20 0 2427232 84892 67600 S 9.1 1.1 0:00.25 Isolate+
66853 user+ 20 0 2428428 75824 61924 S 9.1 0.9 0:00.17 Isolate+
66874 user+ 20 0 2426080 81764 64256 S 9.1 1.0 0:00.21 Isolate+
66898 user+ 20 0 2429856 77884 63484 S 9.1 1.0 0:00.19 Isolate+
66983 user+ 20 0 2432928 85000 68352 S 9.1 1.1 0:00.19 Isolate+
67077 root 20 0 14500 5504 3456 R 9.1 0.1 0:00.02 top
1 root 20 0 22752 13524 9428 S 0.0 0.2 0:04.28 systemd
2 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.08 kthreadd
3 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 pool_wo+
4 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 kworker+
 
I'd never pay Dell prices for Dell refurbs.
Neither would I, I have a short list of trusted suppliers of re-ferb machines and re-use fully tested parts.
 
firefox will often render it useless .
its a dell latitude E6320
i7-2640M CPU @ 2.80GH
8G ram.. i cant add anymore ram.
WTF??? That's a relative beast. I'm posting from my work PC: Dell Inspiron 3558

Specs:
500GB Hdd --> Upgraded to 128GB SSD (SATA, had to keep the M.2 for my WiFi adaptor)
Intel i5-5200U (2 cores, 4 threads)
1x4GB Memory --> Upgraded to 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3-1600 (dunno what clock it's running at though, probs 1033/1333)
OS: Debian 12 with XFCE4

Average daily use:
Workspace #1: MS Edge: 1 Tab for Outlook (permanent) and 1 tab on/off for Excel/SP
Workspace #2: LibreOffice with a ~1.5MB xlsx database
Workspace #3: Firefox with 1 - 6 tabs open
Misc: 2-3 instances of Thunar, Whatsdesk, Megasync.
Sometimes I have 2 open Excel sheets. Sometimes I open Brave, too, and visit this forum when I should be working, lol.
Max RAM use ~75%
Max CPU: ~40% (mostly idles at like 10% or less)
And I get by. LO is a bit laggy, though this machine actually opens files at the same speed as my main PC (specs in sig), the only issue being editing.

So, definitely you have a solid machine. Just throw in an SSD and run something lighter than, say, Ubuntu + KDE Plasma with all the effects, and you'll be fine. I'd recommend Debian + XFCE4, but you can go even lighter, but you don't have to.
 
for ex.
here is a load avg, after i clicked on a link from an email.
but it did recover quickly..
sometimes it doesnt.. as i was mentioning.

top - 23:39:20 up 8:10, 1 user, load average: 4.33, 1.71, 0.93
Tasks: 321 total, 4 running, 315 sleeping, 0 stopped, 2 zombie
%Cpu(s): 47.8 us, 34.8 sy, 0.0 ni, 17.4 id, 0.0 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, 0.0 st
MiB Mem : 7818.2 total, 2558.3 free, 3833.4 used, 2179.4 buff/cache
MiB Swap: 2048.0 total, 1971.2 free, 76.8 used. 3984.8 avail Mem

PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND
65806 user+ 20 0 3378892 556080 212020 R 136.4 6.9 0:36.52 firefox+
67079 user+ 20 0 2416428 48012 35292 R 81.8 0.6 0:00.11 Isolate+
67085 user+ 20 0 2407500 37632 27520 R 72.7 0.5 0:00.08 Web Con+
66835 user+ 20 0 2419940 76368 62208 S 18.2 1.0 0:00.17 Isolate+
66839 user+ 20 0 2434996 84004 67324 S 18.2 1.0 0:00.19 Isolate+
1567 rtkit 21 1 22940 3200 3072 S 9.1 0.0 0:01.28 rtkit-d+
66032 user+ 20 0 2627800 227564 95228 S 9.1 2.8 0:07.77 Isolate+
66146 user+ 20 0 2482544 94984 62504 S 9.1 1.2 0:02.40 Isolate+
66696 user+ 20 0 2427232 84892 67600 S 9.1 1.1 0:00.25 Isolate+
66853 user+ 20 0 2428428 75824 61924 S 9.1 0.9 0:00.17 Isolate+
66874 user+ 20 0 2426080 81764 64256 S 9.1 1.0 0:00.21 Isolate+
66898 user+ 20 0 2429856 77884 63484 S 9.1 1.0 0:00.19 Isolate+
66983 user+ 20 0 2432928 85000 68352 S 9.1 1.1 0:00.19 Isolate+
67077 root 20 0 14500 5504 3456 R 9.1 0.1 0:00.02 top
1 root 20 0 22752 13524 9428 S 0.0 0.2 0:04.28 systemd
2 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.08 kthreadd
3 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 pool_wo+
4 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 kworker+

WTF??? That's a relative beast. I'm posting from my work PC: Dell Inspiron 3558

Specs:
500GB Hdd --> Upgraded to 128GB SSD (SATA, had to keep the M.2 for my WiFi adaptor)
Intel i5-5200U (2 cores, 4 threads)
1x4GB Memory --> Upgraded to 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3-1600 (dunno what clock it's running at though, probs 1033/1333)
OS: Debian 12 with XFCE4

Average daily use:
Workspace #1: MS Edge: 1 Tab for Outlook (permanent) and 1 tab on/off for Excel/SP
Workspace #2: LibreOffice with a ~1.5MB xlsx database
Workspace #3: Firefox with 1 - 6 tabs open
Misc: 2-3 instances of Thunar, Whatsdesk, Megasync.
Sometimes I have 2 open Excel sheets. Sometimes I open Brave, too, and visit this forum when I should be working, lol.
Max RAM use ~75%
Max CPU: ~40% (mostly idles at like 10% or less)
And I get by. LO is a bit laggy, though this machine actually opens files at the same speed as my main PC (specs in sig), the only issue being editing.

So, definitely you have a solid machine. Just throw in an SSD and run something lighter than, say, Ubuntu + KDE Plasma with all the effects, and you'll be fine. I'd recommend Debian + XFCE4, but you can go even lighter, but you don't have to.
i already have an ssd in.
its always FF that does it..

idk if theres anything with FF that i can do..
 
Did you try turning off graphic acceleration [if its on]
 
I've moved on, generation by generation as I've replaced each of my lappies with the next newer versions of CPU, GPU, RAM, etc. DDR1 became DDR2, then DDR3......plus the amounts got larger, too; 1.5 GB became 4 GB, then 16GB (the big HP desktop is maxed-out at 32GB). A P4 skipped a couple of generations to a Core2Duo, and now it's a 3rd-gen Core i5. That's been the general trend, anyway.

Even when new that P4 was slooowwww. Many years on, the Core2Duo was a big improvement, but still a bit sluggish with modern browsers. The E6430 Lat is my first experience of a Core i5. TBH, it appears that the Core line of CPUs - or whatever Team Red's equivalents happen to be - seem to be the minimum now for any kind of reasonable online experience.....which points at how heavy, demanding & RAM-hungry these apps have become.

But this still doesn't really explain what's going on with @jronpaul's machine, which should EASILY cope with Firefox.


Mike. o_O
 
more FYI.. just so yous can see..
here is a zabbix overview of my mem and cpu usage..
you can see peaks of mem and cpu.. that is almost always around FF. However i typically have thunderbird open as well.

1738784596547.png
1738784596547.png
 
When doing my experiment with what $100 would get you, I bought this:


It is AMAZING for the money. That was a while ago, so you can probably find something marginally better than that.

I still sometimes use it. Right now, it's configured as a retro gaming rig. I need to crack it open because I just bought 32 GB of RAM for $20 on eBay. I haven't yet found both time and motivation to do the RAM swap, but I'll get to it soon. I've had the additional RAM for like two weeks.

I have much faster devices. I have laptops, plural, that wildly exceed these numbers.

But, do you know what?

It's perfectly usable. It'd work fine with Windows. It runs great with Linux. I do everything on that box that I do on this one. I have multiple browsers open with hundreds of tabs between them (but tabs are put to sleep automatically after a period of disuse). I have so far managed to emulate everything up to the PS3 and I don't even have a dedicated graphics card.

If I did this experiment again, I'd probably not go for the SFF, because that limits what you can use for PCIe devices. I'd get something with a full-size (or at least full width) case.

I do need to buy an M.2 SSD for it. It has the slot, so I might as well buy it and add it. In fact, I think I have one or two around the house somewhere. So, for ~$150 total I'd have 32 GB of RAM and an NVMe M.2 SSD. If I add a dedicated graphics card, I'd likely get several more years out of it before it started feeling 'dated' or 'slow'.

Even contrasting it with my more expensive/more performant stuff doesn't make it seem slow. Computers have been (for my activities) fast enough for quite a while. This used device is more than fast enough for me. I don't replace my systems nearly as often as I used to. Some of my more performant stuff is nearing 5 years old and I don't really feel compelled to replace them.
 
I do need to buy an M.2 SSD for it. It has the slot,
From memory it is M2 M socket PCIE4 x 4 lanes don't forget to get a foam protection pad to go between the MB and the 22x80 NVMe
 
From memory it is M2 M socket PCIE4 x 4 lanes don't forget to get a foam protection pad to go between the MB and the 22x80 NVMe

Oh, it's clear sailing in that department. There's nothing conductive beneath the M.2 slot. I already scoped it out. I probably should have hunted down an M.2 SSD at that moment as I was in there removing the SSD it came with an swapping it out with one that had Linux already installed on it. It's one of those sockets that's pretty much flush with the board itself. Annoyingly, it does have to be full-length as that's the only screw hole to secure it.

I'm not worried about it shorting. Assuming I just dig one out of my spares stash, it'll also have a heatsink attached to it already.

I should have done it while I was there but the SSD I installed already had Linux installed on it and I was lazy. Though, at the time, I didn't figure I'd keep it for very long. I expected to give it away or send it off for recycling in short order and didn't want to invest much into it - including my time.

But, I now have a reason to open it up again. I should probably buy a used graphics card for it and just open the case once to upgrade all three things at the same time. I might swap the SSD out for a larger one just for the additional storage capacity. As I use that rig for retro game emulation and more modern games take up a lot of space.
 
for ex.
here is a load avg, after i clicked on a link from an email.
but it did recover quickly..
sometimes it doesnt.. as i was mentioning.

top - 23:39:20 up 8:10, 1 user, load average: 4.33, 1.71, 0.93
Tasks: 321 total, 4 running, 315 sleeping, 0 stopped, 2 zombie
%Cpu(s): 47.8 us, 34.8 sy, 0.0 ni, 17.4 id, 0.0 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, 0.0 st
MiB Mem : 7818.2 total, 2558.3 free, 3833.4 used, 2179.4 buff/cache
MiB Swap: 2048.0 total, 1971.2 free, 76.8 used. 3984.8 avail Mem

PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND
65806 user+ 20 0 3378892 556080 212020 R 136.4 6.9 0:36.52 firefox+
67079 user+ 20 0 2416428 48012 35292 R 81.8 0.6 0:00.11 Isolate+
67085 user+ 20 0 2407500 37632 27520 R 72.7 0.5 0:00.08 Web Con+
66835 user+ 20 0 2419940 76368 62208 S 18.2 1.0 0:00.17 Isolate+
66839 user+ 20 0 2434996 84004 67324 S 18.2 1.0 0:00.19 Isolate+
1567 rtkit 21 1 22940 3200 3072 S 9.1 0.0 0:01.28 rtkit-d+
66032 user+ 20 0 2627800 227564 95228 S 9.1 2.8 0:07.77 Isolate+
66146 user+ 20 0 2482544 94984 62504 S 9.1 1.2 0:02.40 Isolate+
66696 user+ 20 0 2427232 84892 67600 S 9.1 1.1 0:00.25 Isolate+
66853 user+ 20 0 2428428 75824 61924 S 9.1 0.9 0:00.17 Isolate+
66874 user+ 20 0 2426080 81764 64256 S 9.1 1.0 0:00.21 Isolate+
66898 user+ 20 0 2429856 77884 63484 S 9.1 1.0 0:00.19 Isolate+
66983 user+ 20 0 2432928 85000 68352 S 9.1 1.1 0:00.19 Isolate+
67077 root 20 0 14500 5504 3456 R 9.1 0.1 0:00.02 top
1 root 20 0 22752 13524 9428 S 0.0 0.2 0:04.28 systemd
2 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.08 kthreadd
3 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 pool_wo+
4 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 kworker+


i already have an ssd in.
its always FF that does it..

idk if theres anything with FF that i can do..
That's some really weird CPU and memory use... TBH I'd expect that from a site using crypt-mining scripts. If you're running web apps, it can push your usage up, but even then, you'd have to overload it with 1.21 Gigatabs (film ref.)

In all seriousness, if you haven't tried doing a full reinstall (you can export your bookmarks and import them) then I suggest you do. Export your bookmarks to you home dir, purge FF and the config dirs and do a fresh install. You can then import your bookmarks and you'll have a clean slate and default settings. Alternatively, you may want to use an upstream AppImage of FF just to see if the fault is the version you're running.

There are some other considerations:
  • Heavy theming + loads of extensions/plugins, etc.
  • Erroneous scripts (incl. crypto-miners) on the sites you're visiting. Installing NoScript/Ublock helps.
  • You're on an iGPU which means anything graphical like font AA and smooth scrolling to graphics acceleration will dent it.

You could try other browsers, too, as I suspect it's likely a glitchy config/version:
  • Librewolf which is literally FF with a few privacy-enhancing changes and Ublock preinstalled (which may reduce the footprint for reasons of the above and the disabling of some FF "features"). I'm posting from it now (though I swapped out Ublock for NoScript as it's easier).
  • Midori/Floorp/etc. browsers. All more/less the same, have their roots in FF, work well, render correctly, and are very fast and snappy. Thay're very lightweight.

One thing I can say is there's no way that machine of yours is too low specc'd... unless it's CPU optimizations like h/w decoding for newer toys like HEVC/x265 and AV1 vis a vis straming video, or AVX2 vis a vis some weird browser game (if browsers have come that far).
 
it's the recommendation of Dell

Weird, I didn't see it in the manual. I wonder why they'd suggest it? I'm not sure what benefit it'd add. If anything, it'd probably slightly bend the SSD. Maybe they want that? It's an odd-looking plug, compared to what I've seen before. I'll try to remember to snap a picture when I change it - as it's more closely set to the circuit board itself than normal. Maybe it works loose over some heat cycles - but, if installed properly, it has a screw at the other end holding it in place.
 
Weird, I didn't see it in the manual.
it's not in the user manual , it's in the workshop manual, will try and find it in the next day or so and copy back
 
it's not in the user manual , it's in the workshop manual, will try and find it in the next day or so and copy back

Hmm... I haven't seen a real shop manual for this device. I did a quick search when I got the device.

sighs

I don't long for yesteryear all that much but do you remember when a computer came with entire reams of paper? You had documentation all the way down to the schematics - even schematics for the power supply. Then, if it shipped with software (and it did), you'd get entire books telling you how to use that software.

I suppose we don't need to cut down trees (nature's renewable resource) for this. We could just as easily make these electronic documents. In fact, that'd be even easier than making printed documentation. They'd even be able to update it with errata as time went, but the only ones publishing errata these days are chip makers - and they make it hard to find.

Intel is horrible at this. For this gen CPU:

Current characterized errata are available on request.

Yeah... It could easily be a living document (during the support period) that you could easily view and learn from... They have it stored electronically somewhere, 'cause it's not like Jim over on the 15th floor is writing it down on paper to send to you.
 

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