Best budget machine.

[Fanboi]

It's definitely narrowed down to Lenovo or Dell now ... It's just going to come down to what the best deal vs features I find.

I like using AI but I don't want any NPUs in my PC , as is currently mandated for new phones, computers, etc. Thanks! That gives me plenty of options to choose from, without having far too many to research and price check. Much appreciated.

It's not mandated, just some apps that use AI locally require the kind of power that only an ASIC would've given (before anyone says, "but", it's in the same vein, I'm not saying it is, I'm saying it's like). It's not actually only AI. NPUs can be leveraged for number crunching, and I'm guessing some pretty badass stuff if someone writes a hashcat for 'em. Hybrid processors are nothing new. APUs existed for years. And many devices have used hybrids. While again, technical terminology aside, PS2 had a general purpose processor + 2 additional VUs that it could offload all the 3D and floating point math to. They haven't started actually running AI on your hardware...yet (it's unlikely to happen within the next 5 years). However whether there's hardware-level spyware is anyone's guess, but it's been going on a long time [1][2] and if people who don't have the specs have found a potential, it's possible manufacturers may, ya'know... Cough Apple cough cough...

TL;DR: There are already worse monsters in these here waters. Blame it on market monopolies, governments, etc. but the only ones we have to blame are ourselves; decadence destroyed every previous civilization, but rampant consumerism will definitely be what sets our one's death apart.

 

[pezdispenser]

It's not mandated, just some apps that use AI locally require the kind of power that only an ASIC would've given (before anyone says, "but", it's in the same vein, I'm not saying it is, I'm saying it's like). It's not actually only AI. NPUs can be leveraged for number crunching, and I'm guessing some pretty badass stuff if someone writes a hashcat for 'em. Hybrid processors are nothing new. APUs existed for years. And many devices have used hybrids. While again, technical terminology aside, PS2 had a general purpose processor + 2 additional VUs that it could offload all the 3D and floating point math to. They haven't started actually running AI on your hardware...yet (it's unlikely to happen within the next 5 years). However whether there's hardware-level spyware is anyone's guess, but it's been going on a long time [1][2] and if people who don't have the specs have found a potential, it's possible manufacturers may, ya'know... Cough Apple cough cough...

TL;DR: There are already worse monsters in these here waters. Blame it on market monopolies, governments, etc. but the only ones we have to blame are ourselves; decadence destroyed every previous civilization, but rampant consumerism will definitely be what sets our one's death apart.

From the privacy "experts" ( I believe they are experts but I could be wrong) NPUs are and will be doing client side scanning, basically meaning that you will have a AI snitch looking over your shoulder with everything you do. It won't matter what you encrypt if the NPU sees the data first, and then whispers all that information to the ones asking for it, like Microsoft and Google etc, to include threat actors. My other concern is that they will become part of a legal "botnets" that companies could leverage for distributed AI computing. Why have a data center and spend money when they can sell a GPU to millions of people, and make the same people pay for the service at the same time? I could be out of touch with reality, but I think the tech is already there to do it.

I'm sure there will be interesting and good things about NPUs , but I doubt the good will outweigh the bad, so I don't want imbedded AI hardware in anything I own.

 

[Fanboi]

From the privacy "experts" ( I believe they are experts but I could be wrong) NPUs are and will be doing client side scanning, basically meaning that you will have a AI snitch looking over your shoulder with everything you do. It won't matter what you encrypt if the NPU sees the data first, and then whispers all that information to the ones asking for it, like Microsoft and Google etc, to include threat actors. My other concern is that they will become part of a legal "botnets" that companies could leverage for distributed AI computing. Why have a data center and spend money when they can sell a GPU to millions of people, and make the same people pay for the service at the same time? I could be out of touch with reality, but I think the tech is already there to do it.

I'm sure there will be interesting and good things about NPUs , but I doubt the good will outweigh the bad, so I don't want imbedded AI hardware in anything I own.

Legitimate concerns moving forward, but for this generation, we're still a little behind. At firmware level, there are potential exploits but those are more likely to be the code on embedded chips like ME than NPUs, which lack the instruction sets to execute full programs -- not to say they cannot be exploited to inject code into a CPU, but that's in line with the Pandora's box Intel opened over a decade ago.
As for surveilance, this is more likely it's in preparation of making devices capable of running AI locally without cloud. Like I said, we have about a 5 year window on this one and if we keep pushing for open hardware and consumer-rights-centril legislation, we do stand a slight chance.
As for using your device for clustering, a simple js script on your favourite torrent site can already do this. (Use NoScript, and browsers that supoort it or UBO -- ie nothing Chromium based now that Google is slamming the door in everyone's face).
I'm already making provisions with some mates to keep private services open for ourselves. So long as the older protocols don't intentionally get filtered by ISPs, we'll be good for D Day. Can't do much about phones except stop using the new lines when they hit. But TBH I wouldn't even trust the first gen iPhone. Smart devices in general are a boatload of vulnerabilities and spyware. In my country Eskom, the State-owned electricity supplier is rolling out smart prepaid meters. Unlike the current gen, these will be installed such that Eskom can shut off your geyser at its will and even specific outlets drawing too much power. That's why I'm going full off-grid in the years to come: 100% lithium polymer and solar, with gas geyser and gas oven. Don't need govt controlling my access to electricity.

 

[pezdispenser]

Legitimate concerns moving forward, but for this generation, we're still a little behind. At firmware level, there are potential exploits but those are more likely to be the code on embedded chips like ME than NPUs, which lack the instruction sets to execute full programs -- not to say they cannot be exploited to inject code into a CPU, but that's in line with the Pandora's box Intel opened over a decade ago.
As for surveilance, this is more likely it's in preparation of making devices capable of running AI locally without cloud. Like I said, we have about a 5 year window on this one and if we keep pushing for open hardware and consumer-rights-centril legislation, we do stand a slight chance.
As for using your device for clustering, a simple js script on your favourite torrent site can already do this. (Use NoScript, and browsers that supoort it or UBO -- ie nothing Chromium based now that Google is slamming the door in everyone's face).
I'm already making provisions with some mates to keep private services open for ourselves. So long as the older protocols don't intentionally get filtered by ISPs, we'll be good for D Day. Can't do much about phones except stop using the new lines when they hit. But TBH I wouldn't even trust the first gen iPhone. Smart devices in general are a boatload of vulnerabilities and spyware. In my country Eskom, the State-owned electricity supplier is rolling out smart prepaid meters. Unlike the current gen, these will be installed such that Eskom can shut off your geyser at its will and even specific outlets drawing too much power. That's why I'm going full off-grid in the years to come: 100% lithium polymer and solar, with gas geyser and gas oven. Don't need govt controlling my access to electricity.

They are implementing similar things in the Usa, it hasn't been 100% adoption, but smart meters etc are a legal requirement in some areas. They have banned collection of rainwater in some places! Now that's tyrannical.
The state of Minnesota has successfully changed some laws for "right to repair" , I guess that's a win, but it's a sign of the times we live in when you have to change laws just to have the right to repair your own electronic devices.

I think that it's very interesting how movies about technology and the future are almost always dystopian in nature...

Great post, I personally have no need for the newest machine, just because it's new. There are computers a few years old that are far more capable than the majority of the newest offerings that do have NPUs. So I agree, I think there is a little time, and fortunately, a ton of older hardware and operating systems like Linux to use for at least another decade plus before things get too bad. Technology isn't growing by leaps and bounds like it once was, and it will probably be much longer before many of the systems available a few years ago are truly obsolete.

 

[Diputs]

When I hear durable, I think of brands with experience in corporate usage, and then there's only 1 name:

DELL

 

[pezdispenser]

When I hear durable, I think of brands with experience in corporate usage, and then there's only 1 name:

DELL

Much appreciated

 

[jronpaul]

hi guys,
im looking for a newer laptop .. mine is starting to lag behind.. firefox will often render it useless .
its a dell latitude E6320
i7-2640M CPU @ 2.80GH
8G ram.. i cant add anymore ram.

im not really good with CPU..
if mine is an i7
would a Lenovo Thinkpad T430 - i7-3520M 2.9GHz - 16GB
be a pointless upgrade?

or a Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon Gen 5 14" Laptop Core i7-7600U 16 GB
since its a i7-7600 instead of a 3520?

 

[Brickwizard]

The I7 2nd gen and 3rd gen, are both older I7 CPU's both are twin core 2 threads per core, both are low voltage, they are of similar speed, the 3rd gen having more cache and a newer on board graphics, but would you notice the difference, probably not.
The 7th gen, again is 2 cores 2 threads per core it is of similar speed but has a much bigger cache and newer graphics, you may notice a slight improvement in processing speed, but for daily computing is it cost worthy, Between them comes the i5-8250U it has a lower top speed but has 4 cores and 2 threads per core and is closer to the I7 7th gen

I have used older slower CPU's than what you have, and not had problems of lag on Firefox .

 

[Condobloke]

firefox will often render it useless .
its a dell latitude E6320
i7-2640M CPU @ 2.80GH
8G ram.. i cant add anymore ram.

You already have an i7, with 8gb of ram. It hsould move quickly....not like a bullet....but still quick enough.

Firefox renders it near useless?.....
1. Check your drive. Is it hard drive or Solid state drive (HDD or SSD)
if a HDD look in software manager for smartmontools....and check the hard drive for errors. It has a quick test which will give you a good idea.
How much data is on the drive?...is it near full?
If the hdd is ok...reinstall Firefox.....the latest version
2. Is the pc up to date?...apply ALL updates, including kernel updates if available

That dell was released in 2011. That is not considered old. I suspect either the HDD (original?) or Firefox

 

[Brickwizard]

its a dell latitude E6320

if it has not already been done then the only upgrades to this machine you can do is take out the plate spinner HDD and put in a SATA SSD [this will speed up the read/write speed considerably, making it boot a little faster and open applications a little faster too. as you rightly said it has the max supported ram.[you may need an adaptor bracket]

Thought....., open BIOS/EUFI go through the settings, if it has graphic acceleration on then turn it off. then try.

 

[MikeWalsh]

@jronpaul / @Brickwizard :-

Hm. Strange.

@Brickwizard and I have got quite a bit of experience with this generation of Latitudes - I have a E6430. Mine's got an i5 - a 3340m, I believe - though I do have 16 GB RAM.

Brian, are we certain the 6320 only maxes-out at 8GB? I agree with the sentiment about the SSD; it's a worthwhile upgrade for any older machine, but as you say, there's not a lot more you can do to improve matters.

I frequently have Opera, Chromium AND Pale Moon open on mine all at the same time. Can't say as I've ever noticed any real slow-downs....


Mike.

 

[Brickwizard]

Brian, are we certain the 6320 only maxes-out at 8GB?

yes Mike off the Dell worksheet ..max ram 8GB of PC3-10600 it's a very late 2011/mid 2012 machine

 

[KGIII]

RAM is relatively inexpensive on eBay. I just picked up 32 GB of DDR4 for $20 USD.

As others have said, an SSD will help. An NVMe M.2 SSD would be even better, if that's an option. (There are PCIe riser cards that have M.2 slots on them.)

If you have a lot of open tabs, look into one of the extensions that puts unused tabs to sleep after a set period of time.

Or, you can do the upgrade and have a newer platform that can still be upgraded for about what you'd spend on upgrading this system. It depends on if you want to keep throwing money into this device or if you'd rather get something newer that is acceptable but will want some upgrades later in life.

 

[Brickwizard]

As others have said, an SSD will help. An NVMe M.2 SSD would be even better, if that's an option.

David not an option, it's a 2011/2012 laptop it doesn't have an M2M slot or the capability to run more than 8GB ram

 

[jronpaul]

thanks for all the replies..
yes i keep it up2date.
just installed new linux mint 22 a couple weeks ago.
HD is fine and SSD.. its always a load issue..and sometimes MEM.
doesnt always do it.. but if i have thunderbird open, with FF and happen to open 1 too many tabs
or get that one resource hog of a site, it will just freeze. if i wait long enough sometimes it will come back

my wife has a ThinkPad T470
Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-7300U CPU @ 2.60GHz
was pegging ram at 8G due to FF but otherwise no complaints and she honestly has a million tabs open.
so i up'd it to 16G and now the mem is fine. seems it was just peaking around 8 to 10.

 

[jronpaul]

@jronpaul / @Brickwizard :-

Hm. Strange.

@Brickwizard and I have got quite a bit of experience with this generation of Latitudes - I have a E6340. Mine's got an i5 - a 3320m, I believe - though mine has 16 GB.

Brian, are we certain the 6320 only maxes-out at 8GB? I agree with the sentiment about the SSD; it's a worthwhile upgrade for any older machine, but as you say, there's not a lot more you can do to improve matters.

I frequently have Opera, Chromium AND Pale Moon open on mine all at the same time. Can't say as I've ever noticed any real slow-downs....


Mike.

theres def no way id get away with having that open.. lol
if i try to open FF and chrome together or FF and brave, the CPU will get up there and it will become unresponsive.

 

[KGIII]

it's a 2011/2012 laptop it doesn't have an M2M

Yeah, that'd mean they'd need an SSD. Those are amazingly inexpensive compared to historical storage prices.

 

[jronpaul]

*-disk
description: ATA Disk
product: SAMSUNG SSD PM83
physical id: 0
bus info: scsi@0:0.0.0
logical name: /dev/sda

 

[jronpaul]

plus, my "3" and "w" are flaky.. sometimes have to hit them a few times to get it to work.
cleaning the keyboard didnt help.

i found a Lenovo ThinkPad T470p i7 2.90 GHz 16GB 512GB SSD 10P for 230
and a Lenovo ThinkPad T470s 14" Laptop i5-7300U - for 230.
but the 470s only has 8GB, so id have to get mem for it too.

not sure if either of these is worth it.. i assume so, since my wife doesnt seem to have any issues with her 470
and im not kidden with the amount of tabs she has open.. she had over 400 at 1 point.
I have 94 tabs open.

 

[Brickwizard]

T470p i7 2.90 GHz

thats a quad-core 8 thread CPU

" Laptop i5-7300U -

thats a 2 core 4 thread CPU

both should take up to 32GB ram [subject to type used]