Solved A Habit from Back-in-the-Day

[Gainer]

I’ve had a habit in Windows for about 20 years that I think I’m going to continue in LM22. Of course I would love opinions as I might have a real blind spot cause as a newbie I’m less than a month old. Sorry, kind of long but wanted to give an idea where I’m headed.

Do not store data on the same drive as the OS.

It started when I realized, the longer I was on a Windows system the more data, files, text, pictures, etc, I created. These were all stored in my Window Users Profile which was on drive C:\ along with the OS.

The more data added the slower the system became especially booting up. And the more unstable. The OS and my data was all together on one drive.

That made the job of data management and troubleshooting the system far more difficult than necessary. That was the starting point. I used this design for myself and all of my clients. Today it is far less expensive than back in the day.

Along with keeping the OS drive and Registry as clean and organized as possible was no programs were allowed to be installed if it had a portable version… starting with browsers. Most systems had 35 – 70 portable programs.

Data and notes that are currently created while I am in the Newbie category are now on a 65GB stick till a couple of 2TB external drives arrive.

The one thing I didn’t expect was to have the 65GB data thumb-drive be compatible with LM22 & Windows11. So far all the files are readable and editable on both systems. The how, given that the systems devices and platters are formatted so differently – I will figure that out at a later date. For now it works

So now, if I understand Rescuevzilla, it can not only be used for System Recovery but Cloning? I have been successful in creating a Bootable, Persistent LinuxMint Cinnamon 22.2.x Thumb-Drive. Thank you all for the guidance. A real game changer. It put me back on schedule for my Christmas Goal. The reality of the Goal is I will most likely need to maintain one off-line, stand-alone Windows machine.

I’m already moved over to LM22 for most of the work-day. Thank you!

Currently my question is, am I able to use that thumb-drive to Clone LM on other computers? Hopefully, to make the job of cloning easier I would consider purchasing a few more of the same Mini PC’s.

Thank you!

 

[Brickwizard]

The more data added the slower the system became especially booting up.

That was not so much space sharing, but older windows crap file system that fragmented as soon as you looked at it,
Linux doesn't fragment,

Currently my question is, am I able to use that thumb-drive to Clone LM on other computers?

you have done it once, you can do it again

 

[Condobloke]

OS drive and Registry as clean and organized as possible

Linux drive, be it a HDD or SSD or an nvme m.2 etc do not fragment. At all.
Linux does not have a registry to clean.
The 'clean up' of Linux can be monthly....fortnightly if you are so driven....is a matter of a handful of commands in Terminal to clean out the cruft, and that is the end of that. Some users go seriosly overboard, but that is their CHOICE...This is Linux, after all....and it all about choice.
I run a small army of Flatpaks. They sometimes tend to leave a bit of garbage behind...especially if you uninstall one. For this there is a small app called Flatsweep...available from Software Manager. Does the job oh so neatly and with a minimum of fuss.

The how, given that the systems devices and platters are formatted so differently

You may recall a screenshot of my external drive....it shows a (approx) 1TB partition....which contains all manner of 'stuff' bith ntfs and ext4....and it handles it with consummate ease.

am I able to use that thumb-drive to Clone LM on other computers?

Tell me more about what is on that drive....what does it contain apart from LM22 ?

Is the drive bootable?....in other words, if you plug into a pc and attempt to boot from that usb stick, does it boot? This is crucially important. (I have been crook for a few days and may have missed some of your latest adventures)

If it will boot to a Live desktop, and there is an icon saying "Install Linux Mint"....which you double click on and blah blah blah...Then, you have got it made ! In Spades ! ..(have another Scotch)

Later. Need sleep.

 

[Gainer]

you have done it once, you can do it again

Very cool, on my way

 

[The Duck]

Hello @Gainer and welcome to the forums.

I save everything I want to keep on an external USB Flash Drive x2 that way if one of them fails I have an extra.

I also use CDs and DVDs to store photos and whatever else I want to keep permanently.

Short of breaking them CDs and DVDs are bulletproof imo and I've never had one fail.

 

[MikeRocor]

Hello @Gainer and welcome to the forums.

I save everything I want to keep on an external USB Flash Drive x2 that way if one of them fails I have an extra.

I also use CDs and DVDs to store photos and whatever else I want to keep permanently.

Short of breaking them CDs and DVDs are bulletproof imo and I've never had one fail.

I used to use CDs and DVDs to store photos etc. and I've (almost) never had one -not- fail. Get the tiniest scratch or scuff on one and not just the data under the mark, but everything -after- the mark on the disk is lost. Old software that can be recovered from external sources seems to hold up a little better, but irreplaceable data seems to be particularly "volatile" - even if one is "smart" and burns it to multiple physical CDs.

If you can keep your optical media in some container that's as clean as the inside of a hard disk, you might be ok but remember you have to take it out of the container to use it.

I'm in the process of moving all of my archived data, what's left of it, to USB flash drives (x2) so that fifteen years from now, if I'm still alive, I can say "Damn, I wish I still had a computer that could read these!"

 

[MikeRocor]

...

Do not store data on the same drive as the OS.

Separation is good (IMO) but doesn't have to be by "drive". I just don't store my data in directories controlled/manipulated by the OS (ala Windows). Don't, for instance, get in the habit of storing data under /usr.

It started when I realized, the longer I was on a Windows system the more data, files, text, pictures, etc, I created. These were all stored in my Window Users Profile which was on drive C:\ along with the OS.

On one Windows system that I used a lot, I used my "administrative powers" to deny myself write access to my "My Documents" folder so that applications would have to ask where to save stuff.

For Windows, it used to be advised to keep your boot partition fairly small and use the rest of your disk for a data partition. I've never done that but that I eventually regretted it. Windows will eventually eat up all the space on the boot partition, no matter how big, and then complain about not having enough room.

The more data added the slower the system became especially booting up. And the more unstable. The OS and my data was all together on one drive.

That made the job of data management and troubleshooting the system far more difficult than necessary. That was the starting point. I used this design for myself and all of my clients. Today it is far less expensive than back in the day.

Along with keeping the OS drive and Registry as clean and organized as possible was no programs were allowed to be installed if it had a portable version… starting with browsers. Most systems had 35 – 70 portable programs.

Portable apps on Windows are a game changer - plop them down where you want them, use real honest-to-God config files instead of the registry, keep your data where you want it... and, eventually, switch to linux anyway.

Data and notes that are currently created while I am in the Newbie category are now on a 65GB stick till a couple of 2TB external drives arrive.

The one thing I didn’t expect was to have the 65GB data thumb-drive be compatible with LM22 & Windows11. So far all the files are readable and editable on both systems. The how, given that the systems devices and platters are formatted so differently – I will figure that out at a later date. For now it works

A file system that's formatted with NTFS, while not ideal, is usable under linux. Until somewhat recently, linux had read only drivers for NTFS but one had to load an external driver (ntfs3g), and then re-mount the fs, to get read/write access to it. Lately, that's no longer the case and read/write access is available in the kernel.

There's also an ext2 driver that you can load on MS Windows, if that helps any, though you can't, AFAIK, -install- Windows on anything but NTFS.

...
The reality of the Goal is I will most likely need to maintain one off-line, stand-alone Windows machine.

That's what I do - but not even off-line, though It's powered off most of the time these days.

I’m already moved over to LM22 for most of the work-day. Thank you!

Currently my question is, am I able to use that thumb-drive to Clone LM on other computers? Hopefully, to make the job of cloning easier I would consider purchasing a few more of the same Mini PC’s.

Thank you!

I'm not a Mint user, but I'd bet you can do that.

Which Mini PC's are we talking 'bout here?

 

[Trenix25]

I generally use a different file system on a different partition to store user data. The root file system uses /dev/sdb1 while user home directories use /dev/sdb5. I didn't want files lying around in the same file system as root space uses. I broke everything up into multiple file systems, each on their own partition. I really don't think it would slow down anything in Linux, unless you use aide or something that will read what you are storing.

I generally format my USB flash drives to use ext4 instead of FAT95 when using them with Linux.

Signed,

Matthew Campbell

 

[ron.alan]

Do not store data on the same drive as the OS.

I do the exact same thing. Not sure when I started it; was probably on XP at the time. I carried this habit over to Linux. I'm not sure I'll continue this once one of the drives fail.

 

[KGIII]

Anything of value, and a lot that has no value 'cause storage is cheap these days, gets saved to a central server and is automatically backed up to a NAS. I then practice 3-2-1 backup principles with that data.

Anything on the local physical device is unimportant, or trivial to recreate. By local, I mean physically present in my hands. I don't generally back up any OS files. I do preserve my /home directory. The OS is of no importance to me. If it fails, I really don't care. I can fix it easily enough. I haven't had a catastrophic OS failure in a long time, and I don't worry about having one. If it's beyond my ability to fix it in 15 minutes, I can do a new installation more quickly. I can then import my backed up /home data and install anything I need.

I only looks like I don't care about my data. That's untrue. It is that I've prioritized my data and only preserve the data I need to preserve. I can recreate the rest. I can install software as I need it and my settings should be the same because I've preserved my /home directory.

 

[APTI]

I would agree about separate drive in windoze, but in linux I never had issues so I always use either the network drive or local drive that has the OS on it. Now if I build up a linux server I will have a separate drive for the data and one for OS. That is just for ability to repair easily and keep data safe when I do something stupid.

 

[Gainer]

Which Mini PC's are we talking 'bout here?

G'day to the Moderator(s) - I'm not an affiliate nor making any $$ from this - Just references as I mentioned in threads and was asked for the reference. If not acceptable just delete this and email me how to do it correctly. Thank you for what you do!!!

Mini PC - I've used different ones and found this a good buy for the buck. Bought the 3-Year Protection Plan and have not a need to use it.

I used the 15GB RAM / 512GB SSD / Linux combination for $170. Some combination should fit your needs and pocketbook.

Here is how I used the MiniPC: The first thing I learned to do (here on linux.org) was how to use Rescuezilla & Rufus. Game-Changer (shout-out to Brickwizard & Condobloke and others). I made backups (of the original installed Ubuntu) and verified each image.

In production the only thing on the SSD is the OS and necesary programs/apps for tasks being accomplished. Each computer has an up to date image of the original drive stored on the NAS.

Next, well almost next, I made a Bootable/ Persistene LM22. Made some great messes, learned a lot and the folks here bailed me out - again. They had to explain to the Newbie... Persistene I'm good now.

I keep multi-imaged copies of successful learning/development at different points so I can go back to "Known-Good" with-in a very short time. Yup, I needed that big-time. Blow it up till I get it right and the way I want it. What a fun way to learn! 50 years of Unix, CPM, DOS 1.0 thru Windows11Pro - not counting Servers - was never this enjoyable.

If/When needed, the Rescuezilla Thumb-Drive is ready to go, just need to copy the matching OS image to a Thumb-Drive and I'm back to "Known-Good". Yes, I've used it more than I will admit in writting.

Yup, I'm the guy that for decades does not dual-boot, VM or bootable thumb-drives. So, as reccommended, I made a bootable Linux drive to explore various distros. Invaluable and crazy fun. At this point I'm a LinuxMint 22.xx.x LTS Cinnamon guy and sticking with it... too many choices. I'm like a kid loose in a candy factory

2TB External Drive - Each computer has one of these for the users local working drive. This is data only. Every 24 hours a Mirror copy is made on a second 2TB drive and a Mirror copy and a Backup copy on the NAS

NAS connected to the "cloud" to get backups out of a/the "disaster area". I have always used a three pronged safety method. 1-backups in the site. 2-backups with-in 30-60 miles. 3-backup and archive out of the "disaster-area".

If there is a failure or problem with the local working drive, it is removed and the Mirror copy drive is put in place. OS Failure... Rescuezilla and the Last 'Known-Good" image.

Well, "talked" more than I planned, but hope something helps.

 

[KGIII]

If not acceptable just delete this and email me how to do it correctly. Thank you for what you do!

That post is fine.

We're unlikely to 'email' you. We may send you a private message but we're not going to go through the processes to email you.

 

[Gainer]

Anything of value, and a lot that has no value 'cause storage is cheap these days, gets saved to a central server and is automatically backed up to a NAS. I then practice 3-2-1 backup principles with that data.

Oh so very true. Today storage is so cheap, why not ?.

In some ways it always has been "cheap" compared to the price of the loss.

Love your "practice"... 3-2-1, myself it's 1-2-3 and we ended up in the same place. You buy fire insurance before the house burns down.

 

[Gainer]

was probably on XP at the time. I carried this habit over to Linux. I'm not sure I'll continue this once one of the drives fail.

Me, probably just before XP. I remember MS-DOS 1.0 thru Windows 2. I was a slow adopter of the Mouse so Windows 3 I used one about half the time. That's about the time I separated OS disk and data only drives. That was really messy and expensive but it did keep my client base up and running.

I'm going to keep my old habits with my data. Storage is so cheap now and I don't have to think about it.
This "old dog" is learning "new tricks". Just way too much fun getting started in Linux. Been less than a month and I havent turned my Windows machines on in a week.

 

[Condobloke]

Been less than a month and I havent turned my Windows machines on in a week.

And that ^^^....is music to my ears !

 

[Brickwizard]

Been less than a month and I havent turned my Windows machines on in a week.

And now you know what you have been missing out on. The fun of having full control of your hardware and choices of apps and OS's you never dreamed of.

 

[MikeWalsh]

@Gainer :-

I have no idea if my setup is similar to others here, though I suspect in many respects it's kinda unique.

As @MikeRocor pointed out above, Windows "PortableApps" were a game-changer. For the first time, you could not only store your data externally, but you could also keep your apps themselves "outside" the OS.....hence not subject to its whims.

I used them exclusively on my final annual re-install of Windows XP, the year before moving to Linux. Strange to say, that last year was the smoothest & most glitch-free the system had ever run.....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​

When moving to Linux and, a few months later, settling into what has proved to be a permanent life with "Puppy" (yay!), I wanted to see if it was possible to create 'portable' versions of Linux apps that functioned in the same manner as their Windows counterparts. I knew this was a project for much further down the line, although I very soon realised that my distro-hopping days were over & I had found "the one" for me.

So I busied myself in getting to know everything I could about my new OS.

Some years later, one of our senior members published a 'portable' build of Firefox, employing a script that proved to have been floating around the 'net for years & years, dating all the way back to the days of NetScape Navigator.....which proved it wasn't a "new" idea, by any means. I was intrigued by this, dissected the package to see how Fred had done it, and had a go at building a 'portable' version of Pale Moon. It worked!!!

Then I did the same for Thunderbird.....again, successfully. I turned my attention to the Chromium-based browsers, and with assistance from several other Puppians, we got a 'portable' build of the Opera browser up-and-running....

Long story short, along with the discovery of AppImages, scripts from Fred that enabled us to build our own, and 'self-extracting scripts', we soon had an entire range of 'portable' applications, encompassing most of the categories your average user might want. Office suites; video editors; multimedia players; browsers; a whole slew of graphics apps, even games (mostly 'indie', it's true).....there's no end in sight, and I haven't stopped yet.

I even script & build my own utilities nowadays....also, in 'portable' format.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
​

I keep all my personal data AND all my 'portable' applications on a large, secondary 'data' drive. My primary is a 1 TB Crucial MX500 SSD; the 'secondary' is a 3 TB Seagate Barracuda.

The 'data' is organized into several main directories, the 'portables' are all in the same main directory together. I've included scripts with all the 'portables' that will add a Menu entry from wherever these things are located. I've long since created scripts that let me set-up any new Puppy really quickly, simultaneously linking all data directories AND every 'portable' application into the system, along with desktop backgrounds and all desktop launchers.....and because these are only 'links' - all 'installation' / config stuff already exists, external to the OS - the whole process takes less than 5 minutes all told.

I install a Puppy via what we call the "quick'n'dirty" method (manually copying the 4 or 5 highly-compressed files that comprise Puppy to a new sub-directory in my "kennels"); takes about a minute. I modify the boot-loader menu to add a new entry; around 2 minutes, tops. I then run the 'link-in' script, and leave it to do its thing.....less than a minute later, and following a re-start of the graphical server, I have a brand spanking new Puppy install, set-up exactly how I want it.....and via the use of the 'PuppyPin' file - which controls the ROX-filer 'pinboard' function (this creates Puppy's desktop environment), I even have all my launchers set-up in their preferred locations, just as I like 'em.

It's not 'normal' Linux practice, by a long chalk.......but it works for me!


Mike.

 

[Gainer]

@MikeWalsh OK, which Puppy distro is most "Windows-Like"? OR which do you like/use? Point me in that direction and I'll put it on a bootable stick and play. Why the heck not?

keep all my personal data AND all my 'portable' applications on a large, secondary 'data' drive.

Yup, seperate hardware. and never cared for partitions

Along with keeping the OS drive and Registry as clean and organized as possible was no programs were allowed to be installed if it had a portable version… starting with browsers. Most systems had 35 – 70 portable programs.

What I left off was the next sentence... custom portable scripting for clients' specific needs. Seperate disks for OS & data, portables, scripts... Ahhhhhhhhh the good life

As @MikeRocor pointed out above, Windows "PortableApps" were a game-changer.

Yes, a real game changer. For so many years I would watch my counterparts struggle for hours/days/sometimes longer to try to find the "problem", protect the data and fix "it", while the client/business was down.

The simple answer was swap the probem drive, get the client back working and figure it out later. Then fix it or toss it.

Like I said, Buy the fire insurance before the fire.

Drives have always been the cheapest part to "loose" compared to Time and Data.

 

[The Duck]

This may be of interest to you.

From the genius of Barry K. who created Puppy Linux.

EasyOS Home — All categories

Ultra-secure web browsing

Quoted from the link above.

Total isolation, the ultimate security​

Firstly, what do you want to be isolated from? The answer is very simple: the drives on your computer.

What you want to do is browse the Internet, access bank account, or whatever, then shutdown. With no record, you were never there, no trace on the hard drives. Nothing, it never happened.

So even if you went to a website that somehow compromised your system. You just shutdown, and the intruder is gone, wiped out. If one of those ransom-ware intruders gets in and then tells you that your files are encrypted and you must pay $5000 to un-encrypt them, you just laugh and turn off your computer.

The means to achieve this protection is to run totally in RAM and totally disable the computer drives...