DEs are shifting to touch friendly paradigms

Discussion in 'Desktop / X' started by Jamsers, Mar 13, 2012.

  1. Yesyesloud

    Yesyesloud Active Member

    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Change for the sake of change is very subjective. The end of monarchy in many countries is seen by their conservatives as change for the sake of change, while inherent benefits are ignored or not even seen as good. Some of the eldest Linux users probably hold grudges against DEs themselves other than the command line.

    We're used to physical keyboards, but imagine entire generations kind of conditioned to use virtual keyboards. More agility would have to develop. These people would probably complain about new technologies, like most old readers tend to complain about or not to fully enjoy e-books - an obvious advance for Earth, since one can own a single device instead of several books. I'm not that young, having spent most years of my life reading paper books, but I seriously prefer e-books now. I don't believe I will become habituated to full size virtual keyboards any soon, although I can type really fast on mobiles swype-capable that also have fine guesses on words after few characters input. :)

    Plus, I don't think laser keyboards are that bad...


    Last edited: Feb 12, 2014
    ryanvade likes this.
  2. ainteinstein

    ainteinstein Member

    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    8
    From the mouse challenged person here, I have always had a hard time understanding the concept of click click clicky clack (and hope you have the right amount of clacks, is it one or two?) to just open that "window", when one could just hot key it and you are there. Oh and by the by, my original mouse got a bit destroyed by my cat, they always make a good toy to keep the cat off the keyboard and they can always be fixed with duck tape...:p

    Well now, Yesyesloud, when, um, you learned how to type on a typewriter, a laser keyboard could be a bit of a challenge. As with an adding machine, old telephones and keyboards, each key had a unique sound that you knew that you typed a mistake. I don't know how well I would fair with that, not that I am any more a fast typer, age. Which brings us to e-books, yes they, for many are an asset but my eyes, I have always gotten and still do get "screen headaches". Yup, a bummer, but then again, as I like to say, the books hold up the house and how do you write, dog-ear and have scattered many open pages with e-books?

    And to really fix that mouse, I like my peanut butter on toast with marshmallow fluff...aka Fluffernutter Sandwich...:D
    Yesyesloud likes this.
  3. Darren Hale

    Darren Hale Active Member

    Messages:
    208
    Likes Received:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    28
    As an ex-giver I have had of course a lot to do with elderly especially those that loose strength in their hands as well as dexterity and to watch them struggle with a touch screen and not be able to exercise their divine right to communicate to a loved one is very frustrating, what I am saying it is all very well for someone my age who takes full mobility and dexterity for granted but for them touch is constant frustration so for the "designers" out there - there is still people who find keyboards and phones with keypads much more convenient and really their only form of entering communication data to a phone or computer.
    Yesyesloud likes this.
  4. Yesyesloud

    Yesyesloud Active Member

    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Typewriters are great. Damn, it requires pretty skilled and strong fingers to press those keys all way down quickly and orderly, not to get two or more keys stuck. Keystrokes sounding different... Really neat. Great memories. Screen headaches are truly awful, good reasons to complain about e-books. A friend of mine only gets digital headaches on 3D games, he just can't play them, which made him advocate 2D gaming lol.

    Very true. Physical keys probably won't cease existing - for a long time, at least. Swype keyboards and voice commands do help with touch screens, if a person lacking motor coordination for some reason buys a device like that.
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2014
  5. Cyber-Berserker

    Cyber-Berserker Active Member

    Messages:
    242
    Likes Received:
    138
    Trophy Points:
    43
    No it is not. Change for the sake of change is the desire for something different, regardless if the change will be beneficial or is even necessary. A change that is neutral in effect is pointless, and therefore, change for the sake of change. Change that results in, or is intended to, make an improvement is good. Change that is deleterious is stupid.
    That assumes other political systems are better than monarchy.
  6. Yesyesloud

    Yesyesloud Active Member

    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ok, then are touchscreens, virtual keyboards and DEs that, as evidence shows, merely support them simply stupid?

    Yes... And this assumption is subjective, isn't it? Many people prefer thinking that democratic regimes are better than medieval God's wishes.
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2014
  7. Cyber-Berserker

    Cyber-Berserker Active Member

    Messages:
    242
    Likes Received:
    138
    Trophy Points:
    43
    If those DEs are catering to touch-screens, but use the same interface with regular computers, yes, that is stupid. If they have one version for touch-screens and another version for non-touch-screens, that is not stupid.
    Monarchies were around long before Europe's so-called Mediaeval period and are still around today.
  8. Yesyesloud

    Yesyesloud Active Member

    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I'd say it's not wise to assume a free DE that perfectly works with keyboards and mouses and have touch screen support is dumb.

    Anyway, people are free to develop their own GNU environments (oh! The beauty of freedom), if they don't wanna learn or customize very primary functions present in the broadly available.

    Also, they can simply choose one that fits their needs.

    God-oriented sovereigns are universal to monarchies. I didn't specify monarchy was medieval-only by implying its highlights, its most powerful moments, didn't happen in, say, tribes.

    Most of today's monarchies had to adhere to democratic changes not to vanish, meaning they're not truly monarchies anymore, since their 'highest' governors don't bear perfectly concentrated, absolute power (they don't even have a saying on most affairs nowadays).

    If you wanna keep considering insignificances in this debate, it's ok, we can ramble on.
  9. ryanvade

    ryanvade Administrator Staff Member Staff Writer

    Messages:
    910
    Likes Received:
    290
    Trophy Points:
    63
    As long as you both stay on topic. IE touch-oriented desktop environments. ;)
  10. DevynCJohnson

    DevynCJohnson Super Moderator Staff Member Staff Writer

    Messages:
    973
    Likes Received:
    857
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Desktop interfaces -> Monarchy

    Wow, you guys are clever. I never saw a thread get that off-topic. ;)
    Haider92 likes this.
  11. Yesyesloud

    Yesyesloud Active Member

    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I'll try :D

    Monarchy x democracy is off-topic, but I guess a democratic approach to DEs is what developers are looking for. Don't they try to reach as many devices (and as wisely) as possible? :)

    Some people seem to think that their personal, subjective, still apparently absolute views on what a DE design must be like might be relevant to developers. These small groups are so clever... They can make their own environments, being the sovereigns of their OS.


    Well, this is what I irreducibly deduce on this topic:

    1- The environments cited by the OP are perfectly fit for mouses and keyboards. They may have different designs, so that people must learn how to use them, but they also feature full mouse and keyboard control - once learnt, one can't say these environments merely "shifted" to the "touch paradigm". All control related to managing windows and getting to a specific area of the DE is still more keyboard/mouse friendly than touch-friendly, for obvious reasons.

    2- the GNU "universe" allows you to make your own DE. If you are not satisfied with some free stuff, feel free to build your own.
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2014
    DevynCJohnson likes this.
  12. ainteinstein

    ainteinstein Member

    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Beautiful recovery, Yesyesloud, beautiful.

    And that is not mentioning how loud I was laughing...
    DevynCJohnson and ryanvade like this.
  13. Cyber-Berserker

    Cyber-Berserker Active Member

    Messages:
    242
    Likes Received:
    138
    Trophy Points:
    43
    There is the problem. Those of us who have complained in this thread have complained that the touch-oriented GUIs do not function well on a hard-screen. The complaints have not been about the disappearing mouse, the disappearing keyboard or the extinction of the mammoth. The complaint is that GUIs designed specifically for touch-screens do not work efficiently on hard-screens. GUIs designed for mobile telephones function very poorly and are horrendously ugly on large computer screens. Full-screen computers, tablet thingies and telephones are different, and therefore, require different interfaces. A GUI that meets the requirements of one platform will suck on the others. A GUI that tries to accomodate all three by making compromises will be inadaquate on all three.

    Most, but not all. The Arabian peninsula for example.
    By the way. Monarchy is not off-topic, since I am the king of the forum.:D Kneel before my glory, peasants!:cool:
    DevynCJohnson likes this.
  14. Yesyesloud

    Yesyesloud Active Member

    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    28
    No compromises here. Intelligent desktop environments detect different architectures to behave in special ways. It's harder to make a DE friends with smaller screens. "Hard-screens" are safe.

    As repeatedly mentioned, I can't spot where is such inefficiency in touch-friendly DEs. As long as clicking has the same effect as single-point touching, specially in mere desktop management, this discussion is odd.

    Touch support is rather old. Windows XP had it without design modifications (pardon the heresy for the sake of an example).

    People are actually complaining about differences in how to control new versions of environments they have been long used to. Strange behaviour for "Linux conquerors".

    As to the (un)importance of monarchy today, among other misleading variables... Let it be.
  15. Cyber-Berserker

    Cyber-Berserker Active Member

    Messages:
    242
    Likes Received:
    138
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Touch screens have large icons to accommodate fingers. Currently, the display is simply enlarged for larger hard-screens. The result is a small number of huge icons on the screen (which is ugly) and using the small screen menu system. Instead of clicking to open a menu with many small items and then clicking the desired item (efficient), opening an application involves clicking a huge icon, which opens a full-screen with more huge icons. Go through the process three or four times and the application is finally selected. That is hugely inefficient, in regards to both the users time and the waste of screen space. So
    misses the point. That statement would be true if the display was scaled for different sized screens (smaller icons on hard screens, etc.), but not when the small touch display is simple expanded.

    Again, the proper solution is not yet within the vision of DE developers. Different versions for telephones, pads and monitors.
  16. Yesyesloud

    Yesyesloud Active Member

    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Who over-clicks on a shell that searches throughout the system?

    Super_L key has been our friend for years. Usually, I don't even click anything to launch applications/open files, often taking ~1 second for frequent tasks and not too longer for others. Learning how to use these DEs efficiently is not difficult.

    I'd not say small touch menus are crudely scaled on larger displays ("hard-screens"?), this would be really ugly. Icon quantity is not that small on bigger screen areas. But I got what you mean. Distance between icons... Easily reduced by search. A relative, subjective matter; a matter of taste, in the end.

    Oh, big icons. Not that experienced users complaining about them can't set up their favourite menu, like, for many, xfce4-appfinder - customizable but created mainly due to the possibility of being similar to designs hated on desktops.

    I am not sure whether that sort of menu first appeared in touch-specific environments. Philosophical.

    You're probably talking about Gnome 3, since icon sizes are more easily customizable on Unity :D

    Gnome 3 tip: Super_L, then 1 to 3 letters, then return key, for constantly used applications (your DE knows them).
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2014
  17. ryanvade

    ryanvade Administrator Staff Member Staff Writer

    Messages:
    910
    Likes Received:
    290
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Yesyesloud likes this.
  18. Cyber-Berserker

    Cyber-Berserker Active Member

    Messages:
    242
    Likes Received:
    138
    Trophy Points:
    43
    When that Unity monstrosity was introduced, there were only six huge icons on the left side of the screen that could not be customised in any way, no tabs or icons showing open applications or different desktops, ... Any changes that have been made would be improvements, but I have not seen Unity since its unveiling, and I wish I never had.
  19. bashcommando

    bashcommando Member

    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Better yet, a option!

Share This Page