Basic forum courtesy: Rules to follow for all forum users.

Discussion in 'Site Announcements' started by ryanvade, Oct 2, 2013.

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  1. ryanvade

    ryanvade Administrator Staff Member Staff Writer

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    Using wild cards "* $ # % & @" to make words LOOK like curses is not alright. I will certainly remove it from any post.

  2. Cyber-Berserker

    Cyber-Berserker Active Member

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    Do you not see the flaw in that line of logic? The wording you use implies that shit is alright, but sh*t will be removed from a post. The purpose of using symbols like %, $, # and * is to "censor" profanity. If they are the reason for the removal of words ... o_O, it will encourage people to post actual expletives, which would create an even bigger fuss. The concept we need to keep in mind with this issue is moderation. (avoiding extremes, a calming influence)
  3. atanere

    atanere New Member

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    I'm new on these forums, but I'll just throw in my $.02 here on this topic.

    I like freedom, liberty, the right to choose for myself. I like free and open software. I like a free and open Internet.

    I work in a steel mill, and I am ex-military, so I assure you I can swear with the best of them. But on this forum I will choose not to, as I do in all public settings. But that is my choice.

    I am not offended by those who choose more colorful language. I am not offended if someone speaks up with their religious or political values. If I find that I am offended, then I will also choose to leave, or avoid such individuals.

    Swearing on a forum is far different from yelling, "Fire!" in a movie theater. I strongly favor freedom of speech, a basic right in our great country. I understand the concerns, but I don't think it is necessary to censor people or dictate that they conform to a moral behavior standard of decency that is not consistent among us all.

    If you begin to censor words, then you have to decide which words are okay and which are not (not even counting special symbol derivatives). It is much easier to decline to censor any words and let people speak their minds. If people become vulgar and uncouth, they will be naturally avoided... by choice.
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  4. ryanvade

    ryanvade Administrator Staff Member Staff Writer

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    Using the full words and the "censored" versions are both off limits. This is a public forum.

    The choice is still here. Either choose to follow the rules or don't. There are plenty of people in this world who are offended by cursing. Besides this forum is to be PROFESSIONAL.

    As for censoring...only curses are to be censored. All other words are fine.
  5. Cyber-Berserker

    Cyber-Berserker Active Member

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    The internet is world-wide and most of the people on the planet do not live in your great country. Any venue that caters to multi-cultural interaction must respect the values of everyone, not just the members living in the chosen country.
    Avoided? How? Those individuals are ignored by the other members or the other members leave the board? The fact is, if there are no rules governing conduct, some people will take advantage of the safety provided by anonymity to abuse freedom of expression. It only takes one or two people to destroy a forum. I have seen it. The problem is when a board is burdened with rules that are too restrictive and enforced with an iron hand. Which brings us to ...
    Which is why I brought up the issue and offered some advice. Why? Because if the rules are too strict, people will choose the latter option. (In this case, not following the rules equals leaving.)
    What exactly is cursing? I know of two definitions. To bring magical harm to someone or to use profanity. Unless some of the board's members believe in magic, I shall assume cursing means profanity. If would-be profanity is censored by the person posting it still breaks the rules, because "'* $ # % & @' ... make words LOOK like curses," the board will run into trouble.

    But that is neither my decision nor problem. I simply offered the powers-that-be some helpful advice. It is up to them to accept or reject the advice depending on what kind of board they desire. The board's membership: numbers, quality and attitudes, will eventually reflect that reality. So I am finished offering advice. Assuming ryanvade's statements reflect the official stance, it is obvious what kind of board the key holders want to create. I hope they are successful in their endeavour. How many of us will still be around to see it is another matter.

    Edit
    It is worth repeating what I mentioned a few posts ago. The reason I decided to bring up the issue is at least one member has already left, because posts are being edited that include things like sh*t. That is one person I am aware of.
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2014
  6. DevynCJohnson

    DevynCJohnson Super Moderator Staff Member Staff Writer

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    I am not trying to be funny or stupid or anything like that, but what about rhyming-cursing where the first letter is changed so it is not a curse word, but we all know what it is supposed to be? This may be considered a form of censored language.

    EDIT: True, most countries have freedom of speech, but I agree with Ryanvade, this forum should be professional (plus minors may come to this site).
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  7. ainteinstein

    ainteinstein Member

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    It is kind of interesting that the subject of cursing is being brought up more and more. One forum I follow, for Windows, tends to allow a wee bit more "cursing". But then, anyone who deals with Windows, it is understandable when one has a rolling pin in hand ready to smash their Windows disc. Been there and have thrown darts at it. And also they do have a bit more choice in their emoticons, which helps when one is frustrated, tends to help keep the cursing down, point across, with a smile.

    But, when one joins a forum, there are rules that are in place so all can enjoy the forum. We have stepped outside of our little towns into the world and must realize that what is accepted there might not be accepted here. And I have been "hearing" public forum alot, too. But, in reality, is the forum not "private" since someone is responsible for it? Hence, that somebody can state what goes or not.

    Point to be made, perhaps it is time for the adults to step up to the plate and show by example that we do not need to curse to get our point across. And I, too, agree with all who have stated this.
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  8. Cyber-Berserker

    Cyber-Berserker Active Member

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    I no longer care about the course of events, but that will not prevent me from making observations on a couple of the previous comments.
    Yes, it is cursing according to the definition provided.

    I do not disagree, but professionalism can only be expected to a degree, not totally. It must be kept in mind that board members are not paid employees offering answers and suggestions to questions, but are users, some with great knowledge and some with little, who volunteer their time and effort. (This is actually very important.)
  9. arochester

    arochester Active Member

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    If you want to play soccer...
    1) Play by the rules or don't be surprised if you are shown a red card and sent off the pitch.
    2) Don't cuss at the referee, it's not allowed.
    3) Don't upset the guy who owns the ball.
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  10. Cyber-Berserker

    Cyber-Berserker Active Member

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    Poor choice of analogy.
  11. Hatice

    Hatice New Member

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    Neden bana bunları yazdınız anlamadım ama önerdiğiniz siteye bakacağım.. Teşekkür ederim :)
  12. Yesyesloud

    Yesyesloud Active Member

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    Yes, I also agree the public thing has been constantly misinterpreted. This is a "public" forum only in the sense that anyone can access it, as of now. If bandwidth exceeds the servers limits, some measures must be carried out, like making access private for current users and closing registration until "server expansion" occurs, but this (or other) decision is the site owner's to make, and so are the rules, thus the board is essentially private.

    About little towns... I live in one of the biggest cities across the globe, and if an individual insists in using bad language on any rare space reserved for debates (public or not), apart from being perceived as, say, "special", that person won't be allowed to keep talking, when not invited to leave (expelled).
  13. ainteinstein

    ainteinstein Member

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    @ Yesyesloud

    I do hope that we do not make the net private and begin restricting who may or may not have assess to sites. That, in my very humble opinion, would defeat what the internet was originally all about, the free exchange of ideas. I know I certainly would be quite upset it I was not able to assess this site!

    I also think, that many online are not The Big City, but The Tiny Town that makes up so much of the world.


    Okay, I was born and breed in a "big" city, Philly, then moved in my young adulthood, to one tiny backward town that you only hear about when the levee breaks. Time has definitely stopped here. Please don't laugh, but it is still the church and tavern at every corner. Simple example, I am quite unusual for having a home computer at my age but I do follow the norm of having the landline over the cell phone. Yes, Ma Bell loves us here. However, let's peek into backwardness, they will curse that would make a sailor blush at their work, but never at home or on the streets. And yet, they would have no problem airing their bigotry right on the street in front of who they are prejudiced against. Now it has gotten a bit better as the "outsiders" have settled in, but the old timers are still not quite happy about that. Now if we take that person and let them "blog", it could be interesting as I have read in my local paper and yes, Tiny Town supports two newspapers and the letters to the editor are to say the least, quite interesting. I wish that we did not have to have such obvious forum rules, but unfortunately, they are needed. How many think that the world thinks exactly like they do?
  14. pane-free

    pane-free Active Member

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    @ainteinstein

    "And yet, they would have no problem airing their bigotry right on the street in front of who they are prejudiced against. Now it has gotten a bit better as the "outsiders" have settled in, but the old timers are still not quite happy about that. . . . I wish that we did not have to have such obvious forum rules, but unfortunately, they are needed. How many think that the world thinks exactly like they do?"

    @lobo

    "I would suggest a policy of lenience with regards to language and disputes between members. There is a thin line between a fuzzy and warm forum and a dead forum."

    @cyberberserker

    "But the battle is currently not restricted to profanity, but also includes 'cursing.' A thread was recently edited to have the 'offending cursing' removed. (bullsh*t) It is dangerous to take the idea of a clean board that far. . . . To reiterate, I am not trying to start a fight, but only advising to tread lightly."

    @atanere

    "I work in a steel mill, and I am ex-military, so I assure you I can swear with the best of them. But on this forum I will choose not to, as I do in all public settings. But that is my choice. . . . Swearing on a forum is far different from yelling, 'Fire!' in a movie theater. I strongly favor freedom of speech, a basic right in our great country. I understand the concerns, but I don't think it is necessary to censor people or dictate that they conform to a moral behavior standard of decency that is not consistent among us all."


    The above are all speaking from experience in life as well as with fora on the internet.

    So-called Christian values are oftentimes perverted by men and result in real harm done to real humans, too often at too early an age in life. It is real profanity. IMHO, to choose anything but Love over Freedom is a too-often-made mistake. What made this country blessed in the past were the priorities it once had but possesses no longer. Sad, but true, the majority now chooses convenience and security over an idea of freedom so many have died to preserve.

    I am pretty sure I have seen a couple of the next three posters listed in other PC/OS-related fora (under other guises, of course). They all three speak from a more extensive experience base than the OP, I am certain. The points being leniency (call it mercy, if you must) caution and respect for the Freedom of Speech now under attack.

    One of my grandfathers fought in WWI. He was a Conscientous Objector because his faith led him to be in seminary when drafted, even though a sole surviving son. As a result, he was assigned to be an ambulance driver. I cannot imagine what he saw over there, but he did tell me "hell" is not a cuss word. This, after he was a well-respected minister and public speaker in his community. He would somtimes say "dammit" when something irritated his sense of right and wrong. He said it was not wrong to do so occasionally, with the proper motivation.

    So, do we choose to impose less-than-sufficient ways of thinking, of behaving toward our fellow humans and a self-righteous world-view "that is not consistent among us all" into a forum that encompasses the entire technologized Earth?

    From another with extensive and chronic experience, caution is advised. The trade-off for not being so in this place will be those who vote with their feet.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2014
  15. ainteinstein

    ainteinstein Member

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    Thank-you, pane-free. You said it much better than I could state it.
  16. Yesyesloud

    Yesyesloud Active Member

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    ainteinstein,

    Lol, I was only completely agreeing with you. As to the internet rather not going all private access, I also agree. I was just implying what public and private mean according to the enterprise/technical/actual/unavoidable limits and hierarchies/authorities/managers involved.

    I, too, prefer things as free as possible, but let's not be naïve. Even when something illegal is massively possible on the internet, if there's not enough enforcement for a given "digital law", that's because of "bigger" intere$ts in keeping things that way.
    _

    pane-free,

    That was a great insight.

    Freedom on this website seems to be higher than on most Linux fora I've "been" to - I only lurk on others, while seeking extra knowledge.

    If bad words are censored on a "specialized" forum, the ultimate meaning of a serious message is going to be intact, as opposed to classic censorship concerned about the whole meaning of the thing, ideologies (talking about wars and political systems) and such.

    "Dammit" wouldn't likely be censored in here, by the way :p
  17. DevynCJohnson

    DevynCJohnson Super Moderator Staff Member Staff Writer

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    Bunu sana kim yazdı?
  18. DevynCJohnson

    DevynCJohnson Super Moderator Staff Member Staff Writer

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  19. Cyber-Berserker

    Cyber-Berserker Active Member

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    Since this is primarily an English board, I like the idea of providing English translations when possible. (By other members who know the language.) That way, people who know the solution to the problem, but do not read the language being used, can still provide input.
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  20. Richard Rodriguez

    Richard Rodriguez Member

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    I agree...people have become too sensitive these days, too many girly men in this world...

    yes I know...I have been warned...sheesh
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