Interview with Michael Robertson, CEO of Lindows.com

Michael J. Jordan, Linux Online Staff

May 25, 2001

This week we're pleased to interview Michael Robertson, CEO of Lindows. com.

Since the first announcement for Lindows, this new distribution has caused some controversy. The word 'vaporware' became associated it in the beginning. Subsequent pre-releases proved that false, but the idea that you were going to be charged for the unfinished product as well as having to sign a non-disclosure agreement to try it just displaced that controversy and created another. Added to this was the fact that some Open Source heavy hitters began raising some objections to the Lindows modus operandi. CodeWeavers, major contributor to the WINE project (Windows emulation software- a big part of Lindows) stopped collaborating with the project. Bruce Perens, one of the of founders Open Source Initiative, wrote an open letter chiding the Lindows CEO for what he felt was Robertson's apparent lack of understanding of just what the term Open Source means. This letter was prompted by some critical remarks made by Robertson after Bradley Kuhn, of the Free Software Foundation, made some statements about possible violations of the GPL on the part of the Lindows project.

As if problems on the Linux side of things weren't enough, while all this was going on, Microsoft and their infamous legal department rushed in to make issue of the name, accusing Robertson's company of trademark infringement. The community of Linux users and enthusiasts has not rushed in as quickly to defend Lindows in their fight against the Redmond software giant as has been its custom when Microsoft points its heavy guns at something in the Linux camp. Its response has been, as far as can be gauged from reading the technical press in the past months, one of ambivalence at best. Luckily for Michael Robertson, and for anyone who wants to continue using the term 'windows' in a generic way (including, it would seem, the people who make the glass variety), the name Lindows is a perfectly valid name and shouldn't present a problem for Microsoft.

Despite all of the controversy, the Lindows team continues working on their goal of producing a new generation of Linux distribution - one they hope makes the transition from using Microsoft Windows to Linux much easier. Our goal was to get the story about Lindows from Michael Robertson himself and he was good enough to take time to answer our questions about both the controversy and the business and techincal aspects of Lindows. We hope to go beyond the controversy to give our visitors a 'just the facts' interview so those who may be considering using Lindows can make a decision about this distribution for themselves.

Linux Online:   When and why did you get started with the Lindows project and why did you choose Linux as the base for your operating system?

Michael Robertson:  MS Windows 98 was the most sold OS last year. It is a very wobbly system that has frequent crashes. LindowsOS offers a more stable, modern operating system for all users.

Linux Online:   Microsoft soon got the legal department out to try to get you to change the name. Why do you think Microsoft singled out your project?

Michael Robertson:  Microsoft's claim that that the average computer user is too dumb to tell the difference between "Microsoft Windows," and "Lindows OS" is just another way for them to squash competition before it emerges. The courts have agreed that there is no trademark violation, and that users are intelligent enough to tell the difference between the products. An outside survey conducted on visitors of Lindows.com found that there is no confusion. Thousands of computer products use parts or all of the "Windows" term. From "Winamp" to "Window Blinds," Microsoft has never sued any of these companies. They are simply anti-competition.they have no interest in a level playing field, and have used many tactics (legal and illegal) to maintain their monopoly over people's computers.

Linux Online:   Do you think that the Microsoft trademark case has been positive or negative for Lindows.com's public image?

Michael Robertson:  The lawsuit has been great for the Lindows.com public image. The courts have been a catalyst for us, because the world has been given yet another opportunity to see just how far Microsoft is willing to go to maintain their monopoly. It is unfortunate that Microsoft's pursuing a lawsuit against us has cost us a lot of time and money, delaying the release of LindowsOS. However, we have been undeterred by this ploy of eliminating the competition, and have been making great advancements with LindowsOS, and thanks to the lawsuit we have seen a continual rise in interest for Lindows.com.

Linux Online:   When you released your first beta of LindowsOS those interested in trying it had to pay for it, plus sign a non-disclosure agreement. What was the purpose in releasing it in this way?

Michael Robertson:  The $99 fee is not for a "beta." While it is true that LindowsOS is still in a testing phase, the small fee buys a year's membership to the Lindows.com Insiders www.lindows.com/signup. It not only entitles insiders to the preview releases as soon as they become available, but gives them access to the Click-N-Run Warehouse, forums, access to Lindows.com staff, and gives them a copy of the final release of LindowsOS when it becomes available. For more information on what Insiders receive when they sign up, visit www.lindows.com/signup

Linux Online:   The GPL issues have created a controversy in the Linux community. You will be releasing the source code in the future, but not at present. Can you give your reasons for preferring non-disclosure over the standard release of source code under the GPL at this stage?

Michael Robertson:  We are in compliance on this, (see www.net2.com/lindows/source) Moreover, We're a big supporter of many of the open source initiatives and have contributed financially, organizationally and with code. We've hosted and sponsored wineconf 2002 and are also a sponsor of the Debian conference this summer. We've actually invested millions of actual dollars in open source projects and companies in the 7 months we've been a company.

Linux Online:   In responding to your critics you say you've given a lot back to the Linux community. Could you talk about some of those contributions Lindows has made to the Linux world as a whole?

Michael Robertson:  I'm happy to outline some of the things that we've done, but I believe you let your actions speak for themselves. People who have followed my career at MP3.com will hopefully recognize that we battled for the consumer at every step. We battled for open formats. We were involved in court battles over the legality of MP3, portable MP3 players, consumers rights to fair use with content they purchased. We hosted the MP3 Summit annually which helped increase momentum and support for MP3 which helped create the standard which is MP3 today. We fought against secure music schemes. And we made contributions to open source software since MP3.com was entirely LAMP based.

If Linux could get to 5% market share (ala Apple), look at the incredible things that would happen. Hardware manufacturers will ship Linux drivers for their peripheral devices in the box. Computer stores will dedicate sections of their store. Major OEMs would ship computers with Linux. It's a travesty you can't walk into major retailers today and buy a computer running Linux. If we can get to 5% markets hare, an ecosystem of healthy Linux companies will emerge which will be around for the long run.

While the code is important more developers are not the most pressing needs for Linux to get to 20 million desktops. Some of it is financial, but equally important is better marketing and lobbying to help more people understand the value of open source. And yes, battling Microsoft and their huge coffers which influences OEMs, retailers, politicians, and the press in ways you only understand if you talk to them personally which I have.

Hopefully, Lindows.com will contribute on each of these fronts, but it will take more than one company. It's a shame that virtually every commercial Linux company has abandoned the desktop. Here are some of the specific things our 35 person company has accomplished in the 7 months we've been around.

We've tried to bring some organizational skills to various initiatives by being a good board member / organizer, helping plan conferences, working on getting PR for several worthy efforts, etc. I've also spent time lobbying congressmen, DOJ and talking to the non-settling states. This is time-consuming, but critical to ensure that there's an environment where companies can compete fairly.

We've joined KDE League at the highest corporate level.

We've agreed to sponsor the upcoming Debian Conference which people can sign up for here: http://www.lindows.com/debconf2. Our sponsorship included funds to pay for a dinner/awards banquet for all attendees (the first time they will have such an event) as well as travel support for some attendees. I don't know if the specific numbers have been finalized since the event is not until this summer.

We hosted and sponsored Wineconf 2002. We worked with the project leader to identify the top 25 contributors and paid for round-trip airfare flights for all the key developers from as far away as South Africa and Norway to San Diego. The venue and all meals were included. There was no registration fee. We also sponsored LPBN.org to broadcast the event. CodeWeavers graciously paid for dinner one night.

We've made a large investment in an open source company. We've also paid about a million dollars to get code produced much of which has already gone into various public GPL trees. We've paid these funds to companies as well as individuals.

Our goal at Lindows.com is to build a company that will give consumers a choice for their operating system. At the same time, we're committed to being a good corporate citizen and being a supporter of open source for the long run.

Linux Online:   Do you think that LindowsOS and other "second generation" distributions that are now emerging are going to be more successful than the older more established distributions in getting people to switch to Linux?

Michael Robertson:  Linux provides a reliable operating system, with a wide variety of no-cost and low-cost software. However, Windows remains the operating system on over 90% of the world's PCs. The main reason for this is that the average computer user doesn't understand linux, and is quick to dismiss it as software that is exclusively for people in Information Technology, or computer pro's. LindowsOS provides the stability of linux with the familiarity and feel of an average Windows machine (minus the frequent crashes of an average Windows machine). With access to your favorite Windows based software, plus a whole new world of linux software, we believe that many people who were previously afraid of making the switch (but are fed up with activation codes, and the high cost of putting Windows on their home computers) will now be able to experience the joys of Linux on a LindowsOS machine. When given the option of a friendly install, and the ability to jump back and forth between MS Windows and LindowsOS, using the same software and documents, Linux will no longer seem as ominous as it once did to many computer users.

Linux Online:   In a nutshell, if someone asks you: 'Why should I use LindowsOS?' What would you say to him or her?

Michael Robertson:  If you enjoy paying between $200 and $300 for each copy of an operating system that requires you buy separate copies for all of your computers, if you like 30 digit activation codes, and an operating system that tells you it will only start 29 more times before you register your OS.then by all means there is no reason to upgrade to LindowsOS. However, if you don't particularly enjoy those, and you would like a more hassle free operating system, then you would want the upgrade. LindowsOS opens the desktop to a world of low-cost and no-cost software. Computer users will be able to install the OS with a few clicks of the mouse and 15 minutes of spare time. Getting new software will be as easy as a visit to the warehouse http://www.lindows.com/warehouse and a single click of the mouse.

Linux Online:   Looking ahead, what role would you like to see Lindows.com playing in the Linux community? In other words, what do you think is its mission in terms of the Linux movement as a whole?

Michael Robertson:  Lindows.com and the Linux community work hand in hand and will continue to do so. As a proud member and supporter of the KDE league, we realize that our product would not even exist if it weren't for Linux, and the brilliant minds in the Linux community. It is for that reason that we have spent well over a million dollars in the last 6 months since our formation contributing to the Linux community - wineconf 2002 www.lindows.com/wineconf (the Linux Public Broadcasting Network came to broadcast the two-day event, and Mandrake provided bandwidth for the video streams)

Lindows.com will continue to contribute time, money and information to the Linux community and in turn, the Linux community will continue to play a pivotal role in the development of LindowsOS.

Our thanks again to Michael Robertson for talking with us. You can find out more information about LindowsOS at their website: http://www.lindows.com